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[Chopper0080]

Cardinals have more holes than a spaghetti strainer

plugging 1 or 2 holes isn't going to cut it at all

The Rams became competitive when they were able to trade for 2 all pro CB's, Suh at DT, Whitworth at LT and get the coaching staff in place.

The Cardinals need Keim to pull off some trades...Keim MUST begin looking at moving draft picks and/or players to get better players at positions of need (OL/D LINE) whom are proven, but don't want to be on their teams anymore.

Ramsey and Trent Williams are two that come to mind...now there may be more, but Keim needs to begin working the phones....or he's gonna be unemployed

IF the Cardinals were to have PP and Ramsey at CB then get 2 solid DT ...with Jordan Hicks at LB, Baker at S....the defense will be damn good

On O if the Cardinals can COMPLETELY revamp the O line - and TE they'll have a shot...so how
start by trading for Trent Williams and move DJ for another piece of the puzzle...if not just for Trent. They need to move on from Pugh (who clearly is done) and for god's sake start caring about the Center position....AQ is horrible other than standing in the middle he can't pass block and he can't run block. They should have gone after Pouncy when he was available....but it's clear as day Keim doesn't care about the C position.

Whatever Keim's plan is....it hasn't worked...isn't working ...and face it WON'T WORK

This sounds like the plan to support Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson. Both guys who were not even drafted in the first round and categorized as "game managers". Did we really take a "game manager" #1 overall?

 

[DVontel]

So if we acquire top end NFL talent then Murray can be successful? That sounds like Dak Prescott, Trent Dilfer, 3rd round Russell Wilson, Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Derek Carr and Joe Flacco.

In fact, at Kyler Murray's age, Alex Smith posted a 7-9 record with a 16-16 TD/INT ratio. Alex was a player whose college coach stated needed more reps to be NFL ready and was a develop player early in his career.

I don’t think he said that anywhere in his post, lol.

 

[dscher]

This sounds like the plan to support Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson. Both guys who were not even drafted in the first round and categorized as "game managers". Did we really take a "game manager" #1 overall?

Come on. Really? Yes.. we drafted him number one overall with the intention of being a game manager.. But I'll bite.. if it means having half or even 3/4 of a Russell Wilson on my football team, that will be considered a great pick and we'll well worth it imo.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t think he said that anywhere in his post, lol.

"Build the offensive line and get him weapons. "

We already have a top paid RB, a 4th rnd rb, 1 hof WR, two 2nd round WRs, a 4th round wr, and a 6th rnd wr.

At some point, Murray needs to elevate the talent around him. I agree that we need to add an OT and a #1 WR maybe a TE. Past that, this offense has all the talent he should need on it already.

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[Chopper0080]

Come on. Really? Yes.. we drafted him number one overall with the intention of being a game manager.. But I'll bite.. if it means having half or even 3/4 of a Russell Wilson on my football team, that will be considered a great pick and we'll well worth it imo.

People are talking like Murray needs an all star roster to win. As the #1 pick, he shouldn't.

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[DVontel]

"Build the offensive line and get him weapons. "

We already have a top paid RB, a 4th rnd rb, 1 hof WR, two 2nd round WRs, a 4th round wr, and a 6th rnd wr.

At some point, Murray needs to elevate the talent around him. I agree that we need to add an OT and a #1 WR maybe a TE. Past that, this offense has all the talent he should need on it already.

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That doesn’t mean adding “top-end” talent. Just means adding talent, period.

I like how you said “top paid” & not “great” or even “good”

Why are you even adding players that that have barely seen a or haven’t even played a down yet? Is that Kyler’s fault too?

 

[DVontel]

People are talking like Murray needs an all star roster to win. As the #1 pick, he shouldn't.

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There’s a reason that roster picked #1 to begin with....

 

[Chopper0080]

That doesn’t mean adding “top-end” talent. Just means adding talent, period.

I like how you said “top paid” & not “great” or even “good”

Why are you even adding players that that have barely seen a or haven’t even played a down yet? Is that Kyler’s fault too?

I'm counting them because it is inherently the QBs job to make the players around him better. I'm not arguing that the players we have special or that I expect Murray to make them special. What I do expect is that Murray finds a way to make guys who are fringe NFL players into average NFL players. You may disagree, but here is how I view our skill position players for the Cardinals...

Larry Fitz is good enough 2nd or 3rd option.
Kirk...good enough 2nd or 3rd option.
Isabella...good enough 3rd or 4th option.
K Johnson...good enough 3rd or 4th option.
Butler...good enough 5th or red zone option.
Trent Sherfield...good enough 5th or 6th option.

Maxx Williams...good enough TE for how the position is currently being used. Needs to be upgraded if we want a bigger role.

David Johnson...good enough for a 1 option.
Chase...good enough for a 2nd option.

Looking at this...adding a #1 WR and a UDFA or late round RB should be weapons enough. If you are needing to add significantly more, Murray was not worthy of the #1 spot in the draft.

Same goes for the offensive line. Yes, we need a RT. But, if a healthy Humphries is not good enough at LT with Kyler Murray as your QB, that is a Kyler Murray issue. Same goes for Pugh. If he can't stay healthy, yes, you have to replace him. But if he can, he should be good enough. Sweezy, good enough. We probably need a better C, especially with Shipley's age and limitations.

I am ok with the idea that the Cardinals need to build up their defense. That unit absolutely needs playmakers to help limit Murray having to win shootouts all the time, but offensively, there should only be a few places where we need significantly better talent.

 

[Chopper0080]

There’s a reason that roster picked #1 to begin with....

The top 5 players who rise to the top seem to be the ones who get it done by elevating the pieces they have.

Andrew Luck did not need a great offensive line to win games for the Colts. The Colts needed to upgrade the offensive line to keep Luck healthy while he was winning games. That is the difference that I am hearing and potentially starting to see. If Kyler CAN'T win without better players, then he should never have been the #1 pick.

 

[DVontel]

I'm counting them because it is inherently the QBs job to make the players around him better. I'm not arguing that the players we have special or that I expect Murray to make them special. What I do expect is that Murray finds a way to make guys who are fringe NFL players into average NFL players. You may disagree, but here is how I view our skill position players for the Cardinals...

Larry Fitz is good enough 2nd or 3rd option.
Kirk...good enough 2nd or 3rd option.
Isabella...good enough 3rd or 4th option.
K Johnson...good enough 3rd or 4th option.
Butler...good enough 5th or red zone option.
Trent Sherfield...good enough 5th or 6th option.

Maxx Williams...good enough TE for how the position is currently being used. Needs to be upgraded if we want a bigger role.

David Johnson...good enough for a 1 option.
Chase...good enough for a 2nd option.

Looking at this...adding a #1 WR and a UDFA or late round RB should be weapons enough. If you are needing to add significantly more, Murray was not worthy of the #1 spot in the draft.

Same goes for the offensive line. Yes, we need a RT. But, if a healthy Humphries is not good enough at LT with Kyler Murray as your QB, that is a Kyler Murray issue. Same goes for Pugh. If he can't stay healthy, yes, you have to replace him. But if he can, he should be good enough. Sweezy, good enough. We probably need a better C, especially with Shipley's age and limitations.

I am ok with the idea that the Cardinals need to build up their defense. That unit absolutely needs playmakers to help limit Murray having to win shootouts all the time, but offensively, there should only be a few places where we need significantly better talent.

You’re blaming Kyler for stuff he can’t control. Again, you’re naming players who barely played their position & haven’t been able to showcase their abilities. That sounds like a Kliff problem more than a Kyler problem. Maybe you’re just reaching to piss off the Kyler crowd, idk.

The top 5 players who rise to the top seem to be the ones who get it done by elevating the pieces they have.

Andrew Luck did not need a great offensive line to win games for the Colts. The Colts needed to upgrade the offensive line to keep Luck healthy while he was winning games. That is the difference that I am hearing and potentially starting to see. If Kyler CAN'T win without better players, then he should never have been the #1 pick.

Word. Can you name any more #1 QB picks to elevate a poor supporting cast in their rookie seasons?

 

[PACardsFan]

"Build the offensive line and get him weapons. "

We already have a top paid RB, a 4th rnd rb, 1 hof WR, two 2nd round WRs, a 4th round wr, and a 6th rnd wr.

At some point, Murray needs to elevate the talent around him. I agree that we need to add an OT and a #1 WR maybe a TE. Past that, this offense has all the talent he should need on it already.

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Did we not watch with agony how this offense performed last year?? The absolute worst Cardinal offense in their HISTORY. Murray has already elevated the offense, but you can't take an offense from rock bottom to even "average" in 4 games. We have journeymen holding down the RT position, Pugh is well below average, and Shipley is an ounce over pathetic. You can elevate those around you, but you're not going from rock bottom to the penthouse with our current OL. Yes, Fitz is a HOF'er. But he's not a #1 anymore. Kirk is hurt again, and rookie WR's generally never do well early. You're being intellectually dishonest in saying that this offense has all the talent that K1 should need to win. IMO, that's a borderline ridiculous assertion to make. At times, your desire to always be right about Murray has blinded you. And that's a shame because you bring very valuable football knowledge to this board.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Cardinal's offense last year through four games:

834 yards - 37 points

Cardinal's offense this year through four games

1,305 yards - 74 points.


Murray has elevated this offense, and the players around him. Massively.

Good job Kyler!

 

[Chopper0080]

You’re blaming Kyler for stuff he can’t control. Again, you’re naming players who barely played their position & haven’t been able to showcase their abilities. That sounds like a Kliff problem more than a Kyler problem. Maybe you’re just reaching to piss off the Kyler crowd, idk.



Word. Can you name any more #1 QB picks to elevate a poor supporting cast in their rookie seasons?

Baker took the Browns from 0 wins to 7. He hasn't made strides so far in his second year, but in his rookie year, he elevated the team.

RGIII did it. 5 wins to 10.

Jameis took the Bucs from 2 wins to 6.

That would make 4 in total over the previous 7 drafts.

 

[Chopper0080]

Cardinal's offense last year through four games:

834 yards - 37 points

Cardinal's offense this year through four games

1,305 yards - 74 points.


Murray has elevated this offense, and the players around him. Massively.

Good job Kyler!

Zero wins...

 

[Chopper0080]

To be fair, if we end the year with 5 wins on the season, this will not be a talking point any longer. There is plenty of time for Kyler to change this narrative. But if he can't, it should be concerning to everyone on this board.

I will be honest, and I will look into this, but I don't think there is a great track record for top 5 QBs winning less games than their team won the year before.

 

[PACardsFan]

Baker took the Browns from 0 wins to 7. He hasn't made strides so far in his second year, but in his rookie year, he elevated the team.

RGIII did it. 5 wins to 10.

Jameis took the Bucs from 2 wins to 6.

That would make 4 in total over the previous 7 drafts.

- The Browns success was more to do with Jackson getting fired than anything else.

- The Skins traded up to get RG3. They were nowhere near as bad a team as the Cardinals were last year. And even with his early success, it obvious that it was only a matter of time before he got hurt in that offense.

- Jameis is a knucklehead, but even the team he inherited already had offensive talent onboard.

 

[Chopper0080]

- The Browns success was more to do with Jackson getting fired than anything else.

- The Skins traded up to get RG3. They were nowhere near as bad a team as the Cardinals were last year. And even with his early success, it obvious that it was only a matter of time before he got hurt in that offense.

- Jameis is a knucklehead, but even the team he inherited already had offensive talent onboard.

These are all stretches.

Stating that firing the HC with a rookie QB led to the team winning 7 more games than the previous year is being "intellectually dishonest".

Here we are changing the goalposts again.

"Top 5 teams don't have talent which is why it is ok for Murray to not win games."

-Here are some top 5 teams where the QB led them to more wins.

"Those top 5 teams had talent."

 

[PACardsFan]

To be fair, if we end the year with 5 wins on the season, this will not be a talking point any longer. There is plenty of time for Kyler to change this narrative. But if he can't, it should be concerning to everyone on this board.

I will be honest, and I will look into this, but I don't think there is a great track record for top 5 QBs winning less games than their team won the year before.

With the current status of our OL & wretched D, you can't simply measure K1's development by simply W's. I'm hoping that our OL stays healthy & shows just a pinch of improvement, that PP21's return somehow makes a difference, and that K1 continues to progress. If we win, great!. Just show continued improvement.

 

[PACardsFan]

These are all stretches.

Stating that firing the HC with a rookie QB led to the team winning 7 more games than the previous year is being "intellectually dishonest".

Here we are changing the goalposts again.

"Top 5 teams don't have talent which is why it is ok for Murray to not win games."

-Here are some top 5 teams where the QB led them to more wins.

"Those top 5 teams had talent."

You're talking about Hue Jackson. He was like 1-33 as their HC. Mayfield hardly looked good until Hue was fired. Cleveland also had a much better defense under Williams than what we have.

 

[gbrim21]

Zero wins...

Youre right, many fans don't realize the QB is responsible for all 22 starters playing well, not just his own position.

Gardner Minshew has more wins than Kyler, which clearly means he's a better QB than Kyler. All ya'll were clamoring to either draft Kyler or keep Rosen and take Bosa/Quinnen. I was the only one saying Minshew would be the best QB in this draft. Did anyone listen to me? Noooo

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[Chopper0080]

You're talking about Hue Jackson. He was like 1-33 as their HC. Mayfield hardly looked good until Hue was fired. Cleveland also had a much better defense under Williams than what we have.

Again...we are combating a measurable statistic, wins, with an immeasurable opinion, firing Hue Jackson leads to a 7 win increase.

 

[Vacard]

These are all stretches.

Stating that firing the HC with a rookie QB led to the team winning 7 more games than the previous year is being "intellectually dishonest".

Here we are changing the goalposts again.

"Top 5 teams don't have talent which is why it is ok for Murray to not win games."

-Here are some top 5 teams where the QB led them to more wins.

"Those top 5 teams had talent."

None of those teams had rookie HC’s who never even sniffed an NFL game.

 

[jf-08]

Zero wins...

But one less loss after 4 games.....

 

[kerouac9]

Youre right, many fans don't realize the QB is responsible for all 22 starters playing well, not just his own position.

Gardner Minshew has more wins than Kyler, which clearly means he's a better QB than Kyler. All ya'll were clamoring to either draft Kyler or keep Rosen and take Bosa/Quinnen. I was the only one saying Minshew would be the best QB in this draft. Did anyone listen to me? Noooo

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It's hard to argue that Minshew is not a better QB right now than Kyler. Really hard to say that DJ Chark, Dede Westbrook and Chris Conley are a far more explosive supporting cast than we have.

 

[Vacard]

It's hard to argue that Minshew is not a better QB right now than Kyler. Really hard to say that DJ Chark, Dede Westbrook and Chris Conley are a far more explosive supporting cast than we have.

Switch the qb’s and Minshew would be looking like Rosen