I’ve Been Trying to Decide What I Saw

Harry

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Like most of those on the board I’ve watched the now famous, game-winning play several times. What I’m trying to settle in my mind is what did I see? If you take all the NFL starting QBs and ask them to duplicate that play, probably half are sacked on the play. That’s 16 players eliminated. A few of those I’m eliminating might have managed to get away a short in-the-grasp throw. Of the remaining group, even though today’s QBs have stronger arms, I’d say only 20% of the remaining QBs could throw the ball to the end zone without being able to set their feet and step into the throw. While Murray had started to move forward, he clearly wasn’t able to setup and use his whole body behind the throw. You can see it’s in large part an arm throw. He whips his body around to even get the distance on the throw. So about 3–4 QBs could get the ball to the end zone.

Now comes the tricky part that’s hard to wrap my mind around. Observers are rightly praising Hopkins. To go up with three guys surrounding you and pull down the ball is a terrific accomplishment. He’s an extraordinary talent. However if he has to go get the throw, it’s likely nearly impossible to catch the ball. So that brings us to what I’m trying to decide. If Murray has to make that throw 10 times, how often does he hit the receiver with that kind of precision. Can he replicate it? I think only Mahomes might have made that throw. I’m not even confident he could make it. The fact that Hopkins could hold his ground and direct all his energy to high pointing the ball, is what made the catch possible.

Murray has certainly moved his ceiling up. The play was not just your typical Hail Mary. It was as good a throw as I have ever seen and after years of scouting I’ve seen more throws than you can imagine. I know people on this board have resented my pointing out the still remaining flaws in Murray’s technique. What they don’t understand is that’s like really saying there’s still a surprising amount of room for him to grow. Not on plays like this but on routine plays. It means this player can become something even more special than he already is. More and more analysts are starting to say what I’ve been saying, he’s the best running QB I’ve ever seen. I think if he can continue to elevate his passing game, he might simply be the best QB I’ve seen. It will be a fun ride! As it stands this play will be remembered for a long time.
 

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What they don’t understand is that’s like really saying there’s still a surprising amount of room for him to grow.
yes

i am seeing growth from him inside the pocket -- subtle movements to buy time.

I think as he gets more comfortable, his mechanics will come back and with that, the occasional accuracy issues go away
 

slanidrac16

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Our style of play is perfect for Murray even though he hasn’t been perfect. But his ability allows him to make a mistake and then make a tremendous play to overcome the bad play.

He has room to improve , no doubt. I believe he will. There isn’t one person on this board that at one point or another questioned if Kyler was going to be the Qb that the hype would have us believe.

He’s too short. He isn’t accurate. Can’t throw on the run. He takes too many sacks. And at times he has been all of the above. But he’s improved and he has room to get even better...and he will.

I don’t think there are many who will disagree.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Like most of those on the board I’ve watched the now famous, game-winning play several times. What I’m trying to settle in my mind is what did I see? If you take all the NFL starting QBs and ask them to duplicate that play, probably half are sacked on the play. That’s 16 players eliminated. A few of those I’m eliminating might have managed to get away a short in-the-grasp throw. Of the remaining group, even though today’s QBs have stronger arms, I’d say only 20% of the remaining QBs could throw the ball to the end zone without being able to set their feet and step into the throw. While Murray had started to move forward, he clearly wasn’t able to setup and use his whole body behind the throw. You can see it’s in large part an arm throw. He whips his body around to even get the distance on the throw. So about 3–4 QBs could get the ball to the end zone.

Now comes the tricky part that’s hard to wrap my mind around. Observers are rightly praising Hopkins. To go up with three guys surrounding you and pull down the ball is a terrific accomplishment. He’s an extraordinary talent. However if he has to go get the throw, it’s likely nearly impossible to catch the ball. So that brings us to what I’m trying to decide. If Murray has to make that throw 10 times, how often does he hit the receiver with that kind of precision. Can he replicate it? I think only Mahomes might have made that throw. I’m not even confident he could make it. The fact that Hopkins could hold his ground and direct all his energy to high pointing the ball, is what made the catch possible.

Murray has certainly moved his ceiling up. The play was not just your typical Hail Mary. It was as good a throw as I have ever seen and after years of scouting I’ve seen more throws than you can imagine. I know people on this board have resented my pointing out the still remaining flaws in Murray’s technique. What they don’t understand is that’s like really saying there’s still a surprising amount of room for him to grow. Not on plays like this but on routine plays. It means this player can become something even more special than he already is. More and more analysts are starting to say what I’ve been saying, he’s the best running QB I’ve ever seen. I think if he can continue to elevate his passing game, he might simply be the best QB I’ve seen. It will be a fun ride! As it stands this play will be remembered for a long time.

This is almost exactly what Wolfley was saying this morning. There are only 2-3 QBs that could make that play in the NFL right now.
 

Arz101

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Stafford, Wilson and Rodgers outside of Kyler

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

Devilmaycare

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who are we talking about: Mahomes, Rogers -- maybe Josh Allen

Rogers and Allen have the arm for it but I don't think they can get around the defender to the edge like that. I'd say maybe Mahomes and Wilson are the ones that might have a shot at doing it.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I don't think Rogers can avoid the rush like that anymore.

It's definitely Mahomes and Lamar.

Agreed. I would throw in Wilson too like ajcardfan said.

What makes the throw so difficult he had to throw it after scrambling left. As a right handed QB, that is incredibly hard to do.
 

cardpa

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I been trying to dig up some stats on hail mary passes and have found a couple of things. First the pass from Murray to Hopkins is completed about 8-9% of the time from the distance it was thrown. Aaron Rogers has completed three of these in his career. At the link you can read about the numbers behind a hail mary pass which talks about trajectory as it leaves the QB's hand to the receiver and distance traveled in the air Pretty interesting stuff.
https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/the-numbers-behind-the-hail-mary

Having watch the catch multiple times Hopkins timed his jump perfectly. In addition #21 on Buffalo actually prevents his teammate #27 from trying to make a play on the ball by hitting him as he is going up with Hopkins for the ball.
 

Russ Smith

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Rodgers in his prime could do that, probably not now. Mahomes could do it. Josh Allen certainly could but I'm not sure he would have avoided the rush as well as Kyler did he may have had to make the longer throw instead of avoiding Oliver and gaining an extra 5 yards plus forward momentum before the throw. So yeah there's 3-4 guys who COULD do it, but Kyler did it and it was amazing
 

oaken1

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What got me was how pinpoint it was.... literally EXACTLY the right spot

we were fortunate the Bills defenders wanted the pick instead of just trying to knock it down
 

CardNots

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What got me was how pinpoint it was.... literally EXACTLY the right spot

we were fortunate the Bills defenders wanted the pick instead of just trying to knock it down

it appeared as if the defenders were not tracking the ball as opposed to Dhop
 

football karma

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we were fortunate the Bills defenders wanted the pick instead of just trying to knock it down

ive heard this criticism of Tra White -- but i dont think its warranted

if you look -- White isnt high enough to get a hand on it --

Give Hop credit -- as you see him in the end zone -- he stakes out the perfect spot to claim that ball, and went up above everyone by about half a hands length to get it
 

Russ Smith

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What got me was how pinpoint it was.... literally EXACTLY the right spot

we were fortunate the Bills defenders wanted the pick instead of just trying to knock it down


I don't get that none of them COULD knock it down? None of them got high enough to get the ball, the only guy that did was the guy who caught it. A friend of mine said Murray needs to work on that the one thing you don't want on a hail mary is to overthrow everyone so nobody has a chance. as someone else said this wasn't a traditional hail mary, he threw that ball to D hop in a place where only D HOp could get it. He did it earlier in the game off the blitz and D Hop didn't react because the ball came out early and it flew over the top and people said inaccurate throw. It was a perfect throw it was just too early, and he missed Arnold open. But IF D Hop had been later in his route, he would have IMO caught that ball too.
 

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It was a great throw and catch. Hard to believe we got Nuk for Johnson.

Mike Florio was on the Rish Eisen show on Monday.

He said you know when you have junk you don't know how to get rid of, and every now and again they will have a day where you can leave it roadside and someone will come and pick it up. Well that was David Johnson. Except you would have to pay someone to take David Johnson.

He was going on about how the Texans could have got a 1st for Nuk without a player, and that adding DJ and his contract means you want an extra pick, not dropping to a 2nd.
 

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I don't get that none of them COULD knock it down? None of them got high enough to get the ball, the only guy that did was the guy who caught it. A friend of mine said Murray needs to work on that the one thing you don't want on a hail mary is to overthrow everyone so nobody has a chance. as someone else said this wasn't a traditional hail mary, he threw that ball to D hop in a place where only D HOp could get it. He did it earlier in the game off the blitz and D Hop didn't react because the ball came out early and it flew over the top and people said inaccurate throw. It was a perfect throw it was just too early, and he missed Arnold open. But IF D Hop had been later in his route, he would have IMO caught that ball too.

You can get higher with 1 hand than 2 because you rotate your shoulders. That's why everyone at the combine does the VJ with one hand.
 

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