Yi to be blocked from Bucks

[Chris_Sanders]

I dont think this is accurate at all.

That doesn't suprise me. I am not going to continue to explain the same thing over and over.

 

[F-Dog]

The NBA needs to step in here. At the very least the NBA needs to make changes to the rules to not allow players drafted to dictate where they can go. This it utter BS.

The rules are just fine, and Yi's attitude is just fine, too.


The rules put a significant penalty in place for refusing to sign--a full year without club basketball, and at the end Yi gets thrown in the draft again, probably to wind up with less money. If Yi's willing to take the penalty to control where he winds up, that's his right, just as it's the right of any other player who declares.

If anything, Yi has been more than usually up-front about his demands through the entire process. The Bucks weren't blind-sided by this like the Grizzlies were with Francis; on the contrary, they made a deliberate decision not to take Yi's threats seriously, even though they knew he was capable of following through.



It surprises me that people aren't questioning the Bucks' motives here. They didn't scout Yi, they don't seem to need what he promises to bring, and they knew that the people who did scout Yi didn't rate him significantly higher (if at all) than the group of players who went after him.

What advantages did the Bucks know Yi to possess over those other players? Well, the Bucks did know they wouldn't be selling their TV rights for tens of millions of dollars in Tennessee if they took Corey Brewer or Brandan Wright...

Who's respecting the intentions of the draft, then? Or should that question only be asked to one side?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

they could go on the and1 tour or they could play in the aba.

Or they could go to the Phoenix Suns and say "What will you offer me to play for your team"

Or the New York Knicks. Ect...

In a free market, a person should be free to be accepted or denied employment based on ability and opportunity. Not on a communistic style system of pre-placing employees into the workforce.

 

[cly2tw]

Are you comparing slavery to the collective bargaining agreement of the NBA Draft?


You must tell me what you smoke.

What I meant was that, the fact that a contract is signed voluntarily doesn't automatically make it constitutional, with an extreme example "slavery".

Take Ryanwb's advice, let it go. In your extremely biased condition, you will just not be able to see through the real issue.

 

[Mulli]

The rules are just fine, and Yi's attitude is just fine, too.


The rules put a significant penalty in place for refusing to sign--a full year without club basketball, and at the end Yi gets thrown in the draft again, probably to wind up with less money. If Yi's willing to take the penalty to control where he winds up, that's his right, just as it's the right of any other player who declares.

If anything, Yi has been more than usually up-front about his demands through the entire process. The Bucks weren't blind-sided by this like the Grizzlies were with Francis; on the contrary, they made a deliberate decision not to take Yi's threats seriously, even though they knew he was capable of following through.



It surprises me that people aren't questioning the Bucks' motives here. They didn't scout Yi, they don't seem to need what he promises to bring, and they knew that the people who did scout Yi didn't rate him significantly higher (if at all) than the group of players who went after him.

What advantages did the Bucks know Yi to possess over those other players? Well, the Bucks did know they wouldn't be selling their TV rights for tens of millions of dollars in Tennessee if they took Corey Brewer or Brandan Wright...

Who's respecting the intentions of the draft, then? Or should that question only be asked to one side?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

What a freaking cop-out - just because I have made arguments with which you disagree doesn't mean I haven't done any research.

It all comes down to the courts' interpretation of the nature of the relationships the NBA's teams have with one another. Is it one entity that negotiated with the NBPA to reach an agreement, or is it 30 separate teams that collude in order to conduct business in a mutually beneficial manner? Most recently, American courts have viewed sports leagues as a single entity (see Frasier v. Major League Soccer, 2000). If that continues to be the case, there is not much of an anti-trust threat against professional sports leagues in general.

Please read my posts. I hate repeating myself.

While it is likely that the courts would support the league, the potential that the draft would be declared illegal means it isn't worth the chance a league would take.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

Or they could go to the Phoenix Suns and say "What will you offer me to play for your team"

Or the New York Knicks. Ect...

In a free market, a person should be free to be accepted or denied employment based on ability and opportunity. Not on a communistic style system of pre-placing employees into the workforce.

That's a great idea - I sure love how that works in Major League Baseball...

Of course, it's not a question of whether that system is better, it's a question of whether or not the current NBA draft system is legal. And I'm quite confident, based on my research , that it is legal, and would stand up in court. Sure, there may be specific practices that could invite legal challenge, but the draft process itself isn't going anywhere. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, and I'm assuming you aren't either ... maybe we should both shut up.

 

[cly2tw]

The rules are just fine, and Yi's attitude is just fine, too.


The rules put a significant penalty in place for refusing to sign--a full year without club basketball, and at the end Yi gets thrown in the draft again, probably to wind up with less money. If Yi's willing to take the penalty to control where he winds up, that's his right, just as it's the right of any other player who declares.

Is this right? I thought the drafting team keeps the signing right until trading it away.

 

[F-Dog]

Is this right? I thought the drafting team keeps the signing right until trading it away.

Only if Yi plays club basketball. If Yi spends the year playing with his national team, it has the same effect as Jim Jackson enrolling in classes at Ohio State--back in the draft the next season.

 

[Russ Smith]

Only if Yi plays club basketball. If Yi spends the year playing with his national team, it has the same effect as Jim Jackson enrolling in classes at Ohio State--back in the draft the next season.

Hold on you're suggesting that Jimmy Jackson attended classes at Ohio State?



You are of course right that Yi has the option to sit out the year and Milwaukee has the option to force him.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did Yi actually tell Milwaukee don't pick me? What I recall is after the pick we were told that there was some indication that Yi's people were unhappy because they'd told Milwaukee they weren't on the list of teams they wanted to play for, not that they said DO NOT DRAFT YI.

I hated when Elway did it too but they were literally on the phone with the Colts during the draft saying DO NOT DRAFT ME. The Colts still did so in the end they had a clear understanding of his position, I don't think the Bucks did. It seems the he won't sign so trade him is somewhat new information, before it was just possible, now it's a ironclad he won't sign.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

Please read my posts. I hate repeating myself.

While it is likely that the courts would support the league, the potential that the draft would be declared illegal means it isn't worth the chance a league would take.

You can't possibly expect me to read all the way to the end of your post, can you???

Sorry, didn't see that last sentence the first go-round.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You can't possibly expect me to read all the way to the end of your post, can you???

Sorry, didn't see that last sentence the first go-round.

I feel dumb when I argue for two pages and then realize we were both saying virtually the same thing.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

I feel dumb when I argue for two pages and then realize we were both saying virtually the same thing.

LOL - group hug.

 

[schutd]

You guys would really freak out over the baseball draft.

It's ironic that someone says "freaking commie" but fail to grasp that the draft is far more communist than capitalist. In the purest capitalistic sense a rookie who meets the requirements to join the league should be free to apply where ever he likes and lets the market determine the value of his services.

One of the biggest fears about people challenging things like age limits on a draft is that the courts would rule that the entire draft process should be voided.

Ultimately the NBA can't afford to "come down hard" on Yi for that reason and because Stern is trying to develop the potential cash cow that is China.

While it sucks, this is those most logical thought on the subject Ive heard yet...

 

[F-Dog]

Correct me if I'm wrong but did Yi actually tell Milwaukee don't pick me? What I recall is after the pick we were told that there was some indication that Yi's people were unhappy because they'd told Milwaukee they weren't on the list of teams they wanted to play for, not that they said DO NOT DRAFT YI.

The list was of teams that Yi would not go to if they drafted him, and the Bucks were on it. Also, not only did Yi specifically refuse to work out for the Bucks, etc., he also refused to work out for other teams if any of the black-listed teams were invited.

I think the Celtics were a grey area team--not on the list, but Yi didn't work out for them. Still, Yi didn't ban them from the workout he did for Phoenix IIRC.



The difference between Yi and Elway is that Elway was clearly a franchise player when he was drafted. If Kevin Durant refused to play for the Sonics, would they have drafted him anyway? Yes, of course, and nobody would blame them for it.

The Bucks passed over better prospects to take Yi. What that says is that improving themselves on the court wasn't the team's first concern.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

I feel dumb when I argue for two pages and then realize we were both saying virtually the same thing.

I suppose we were really saying similar things. I don't think there is any way the draft process would be overturned in an American court, but you don't think the NBA is willing to invite a court challenge on a system with the appearance of a trust, collectively bargained or not. Both good points. Going to trial over something like this would be so expensive to the league, both in actual dollars and in negative publicity, that there are very few circumstances under which it would be worth it.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

The Bucks passed over better prospects to take Yi. What that says is that improving themselves on the court wasn't the team's first concern.

I totally disagree. While it certainly isn't the majority opinion, I read several articles before the draft arguing that Yi could eventually be the best player in this draft class. I don't buy that at all, but why on earth would they go through this if they didn't feel Yi was the best available prospect? The marketing appeal is definitely there, but the Bucks had to know this was going to be a very acrimonious process that would destroy a lot of good will, therefore harming his appeal to a degree. I don't understand it unless it was largely a basketball move.

 

[Joe Mama]

The rules are just fine, and Yi's attitude is just fine, too.


The rules put a significant penalty in place for refusing to sign--a full year without club basketball, and at the end Yi gets thrown in the draft again, probably to wind up with less money. If Yi's willing to take the penalty to control where he winds up, that's his right, just as it's the right of any other player who declares.

If anything, Yi has been more than usually up-front about his demands through the entire process. The Bucks weren't blind-sided by this like the Grizzlies were with Francis; on the contrary, they made a deliberate decision not to take Yi's threats seriously, even though they knew he was capable of following through.



It surprises me that people aren't questioning the Bucks' motives here. They didn't scout Yi, they don't seem to need what he promises to bring, and they knew that the people who did scout Yi didn't rate him significantly higher (if at all) than the group of players who went after him.

What advantages did the Bucks know Yi to possess over those other players? Well, the Bucks did know they wouldn't be selling their TV rights for tens of millions of dollars in Tennessee if they took Corey Brewer or Brandan Wright...

Who's respecting the intentions of the draft, then? Or should that question only be asked to one side?

I'll probably feel the same way about Yi as I do about Steve Francis because of this situation, but I basically agree with this entire post. The Milwaukee Bucks took a gamble. Right now it looks like that gamble is not going to pay off.

They would almost certainly not get equal value for Yi anyways, but after his lackluster summer league appearance it's probably even worse. On top of that for every team that thought he was going to be a good player there was a team who didn't think much all about him.

It would be really interesting to hear what teams are offering for him right now. I doubt it's enough to make them bite on a trade at this point.

Joe

 

[Russ Smith]

The list was of teams that Yi would not go to if they drafted him, and the Bucks were on it. Also, not only did Yi specifically refuse to work out for the Bucks, etc., he also refused to work out for other teams if any of the black-listed teams were invited.

I think the Celtics were a grey area team--not on the list, but Yi didn't work out for them. Still, Yi didn't ban them from the workout he did for Phoenix IIRC.



The difference between Yi and Elway is that Elway was clearly a franchise player when he was drafted. If Kevin Durant refused to play for the Sonics, would they have drafted him anyway? Yes, of course, and nobody would blame them for it.

The Bucks passed over better prospects to take Yi. What that says is that improving themselves on the court wasn't the team's first concern.

Gotcha, I hadn't followed Yi closely enough to know he'd refused to workout for blacklisted teams and told them they were blacklisted pre-draft.

That changes my opinion somewhat although I still consider it circumvention of the draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

I do not feel sorry for the Bucks. They called Yi's hand and it was not a bluff. The Bucks already knew he did not want to play for them. IMO, it's not much different than drafting a European or other foreign player and him deciding not to play in the NBA. Even the Suns had rights to a PG than never came over. Also I think Orlando drafted a player by the name of Fran Vasquez(sp) who never came over as well. I'm not even sure of Rudy Fernandez status... whether he will play in the NBA this year. Also there were questions whether even Yao would be allowed to play in the NBA. So this is really nothing new.

Anyway the Bucks decided to go into the matter with their eyes wide open (or rather shut) not considering the ethnic and cultural factors that are also in play in this matter. Now, is there any way the Suns can get Yi reasonably. He looks tailor made for the Suns... before a team like GS, Houston or the Mavs get him.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

I'll probably feel the same way about Yi as I do about Steve Francis because of this situation

The one difference between Steve Francis' situation and Yi's is that we don't know how much of this is Yi, and how much is the Chinese government. It almost seems like Yi is just a pawn in this game, which almost makes him a sympathetic figure, very much unlike Francis.

 

[F-Dog]

While it certainly isn't the majority opinion, I read several articles before the draft arguing that Yi could eventually be the best player in this draft class.

Better than Oden or Durant? I wouldn't have bothered to read beyond that point.

I don't buy that at all, but why on earth would they go through this if they didn't feel Yi was the best available prospect?

Money.

 

[elindholm]

Chris, NBA players are employed by the league, not by individual teams. It's the same as if someone gets hired by Intel and is then quickly assigned to a plant in a location he considers undesireable. He can accept the demand of his employer or he can quit, but he can't get very far by stamping his feet and saying, "This is America and I can work where I want to."

 

[Mainstreet]

They would almost certainly not get equal value for Yi anyways, but after his lackluster summer league appearance it's probably even worse. On top of that for every team that thought he was going to be a good player there was a team who didn't think much all about him.

It would be really interesting to hear what teams are offering for him right now. I doubt it's enough to make them bite on a trade at this point.

Joe

If I were the Suns I would make a play and try to get Yi. IMO, he would be an excellent player in the Suns' system. Not that comparisons should be made between Yao and Yi (because they're from China), but I like Yi's athleticism so much more than Yao and I think Yi has potentially so much more upside.

 

[F-Dog]

Chris, NBA players are employed by the league, not by individual teams. It's the same as if someone gets hired by Intel and is then quickly assigned to a plant in a location he considers undesireable. He can accept the demand of his employer or he can quit, but he can't get very far by stamping his feet and saying, "This is America and I can work where I want to."

What if Intel's internal rules state that, if he goes on unpaid leave for six months, he'll be transferred? Is that the same as stamping his feet?