Yi to be blocked from Bucks

[azirish]

I do not feel sorry for the Bucks. They called Yi's hand and it was not a bluff. The Bucks already knew he did not want to play for them. IMO, it's not much different than drafting a European or other foreign player and him deciding not to play in the NBA. Even the Suns had rights to a PG than never came over. Also I think Orlando drafted a player by the name of Fran Vasquez(sp) who never came over as well. I'm not even sure of Rudy Fernandez status... whether he will play in the NBA this year. Also there were questions whether even Yao would be allowed to play in the NBA. So this is really nothing new.

Anyway the Bucks decided to go into the matter with their eyes wide open (or rather shut) not considering the ethnic and cultural factors that are also in play in this matter. Now, is there any way the Suns can get Yi reasonably. He looks tailor made for the Suns... before a team like GS, Houston or the Mavs get him.

There seems to be a lot of issues, but to me this looks a lot like when the Magic drafted Fran Vazquez as the #11 pick in the 2005 draft. Obviously there are differences between refusing to play in a city versus just staying in Europe; but that the team did not perform the simplest due diligence. International players require more due diligence than college players and teams that don't pay attention take on huge risks.

Some people suggest the league should get involved. Why? If Yi's people decide he's better off holding out than going to Milwaukee, then what business is it of the league? The fact Yi actually wants to play in the NBA doesn't change anything. Unless I'm missing something, the Bucks have just two options:


1. Do Nothing and Hope Yi Changes His Mind: It is not clear to me if he can do anything that will put him back into the draft next year. If he can, the Bucks are in deep doo doo. If he can't, they are in the same situation as the Magic with an "asset" that doesn't do them any good.


2. Trade Him: He is a depreciating asset. The longer they wait the less they are likely to get, but perhaps he'll do well in international ball and get his value up.


BTW, I do not think the Suns would have much interest and Yi's people would not want him in Phoenix..

 

[hafey]

The interesting and overlooked thing about the draft is that is does not guarantee a contract. Only the RIGHTS to sign a player are drafted. Rarely does it become an issue, but we've seen with Vasquez and now Yi that the player does not have to sign a contract with the team. It is within in their right to not sign the contract.

I have little sympathy for Milwaukee. They knew all the issues prior to the draft. There was a reason they were not invited/allowed to Yi's workouts. IMO, they had plenty of as good or better options to improve their team at the 6th pick. Sometimes it seems like it was a move made of mostly stubbornness. I mean Larry Harris had never seen Yi play in person at anytime.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

The NBA needs to step in here. At the very least the NBA needs to make changes to the rules to not allow players drafted to dictate where they can go. This it utter BS.

I disagree. The NBA steps in too much already, and when they step in they make the wrong call. The Bucks knew he didn't want to go there, but they picked him anyways. It's exactly the same as the Eli/Chargers situation, and the Chargers, not the NFL, were smart enough to accept it and made the trade.

What Yi doesn't understand is that most people would kill their first-born to be drafted. What he's doing is hurting the foreign players from his region.

The Bucks made a risky business decision and it backfired. The NBA should let them live with it. If they know business they would have known that chemistry is important and gone with another pick, or traded the pick for some people who could help that sorry excuse for a franchise immediately.

 

[Mainstreet]

BTW, I do not think the Suns would have much interest and Yi's people would not want him in Phoenix..

Forgetting all the other factors for a moment, I think China wants Yi to play for a team that will totally utilize his skills so he can become another star player from China that their fans can support. I think Yi's representatives would like what the Suns have to offer in terms of style of play. IMO, Yi would quickly become a Dirk type player in Phoenix where other teams might not utilize his skills correctly. I think Yi needs to have a team that fits his style and there are not many other NBA teams that fit the bill as well as Phoenix. However, I can also see GS being especially attractive for Yi.

 

[azirish]

Forgetting all the other factors for a moment, I think China wants Yi to play for a team that will totally utilize his skills so he can become another star player from China that their fans can support. I think Yi's representatives would like what the Suns have to offer in terms of style of play. IMO, Yi would quickly become a Dirk type player in Phoenix where other teams might not utilize his skills correctly. I think Yi needs to have a team that fits his style and there are not many other NBA teams that fit the bill as well as Phoenix. However, I can also see GS being especially attractive for Yi.

However, Yi would not play. He is no way close to being able to join the Suns rotation. If the Chinese are concerned that the Bucks already have Bogut, what are they going to think about when they see Amare?

 

[Mainstreet]

However, Yi would not play. He is no way close to being able to join the Suns rotation. If the Chinese are concerned that the Bucks already have Bogut, what are they going to think about when they see Amare?

I can see Yi starting ahead of Grant Hill at least mid way through the season to give Hill some rest. And then if Marion opts next season he is in the rotation full-time.

 

[nashman]

This ass clown should be in Milwalkee where he was drafted or should not be able to join the NBA for like 5 years. Sick of players that have not proved anything making stupid demands like this. Screw em stay in China you big BUST! Prove you can play before acting like a superstar!

 

[Mainstreet]

This ass clown should be in Milwalkee where he was drafted or should not be able to join the NBA for like 5 years. Sick of players that have not proved anything making stupid demands like this. Screw em stay in China you big BUST! Prove you can play before acting like a superstar!

I don't know how you view him differently than say a Euro that decides not to come over. Smart teams ask Euros and foreigners how they feel about playing for their team and the NBA... before the draft. I'm thinking the Bucks thought he was the best talent on the draft board at the time and if he did not sign with them, they could trade him for near equal value.

The Bucks knew they were gambling.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I don't know how you view him differently than say a Euro that decides not to come over. Smart teams ask Euros and foreigners how they feel about playing for their team and the NBA... before the draft. I'm thinking the Bucks thought he was the best talent on the draft board at the time and if he did not sign with them, they could trade him for near equal value.

The Bucks knew they were gambling.

Again the main difference is the whole Chinese government interference angle. It's still not clear (at least to me) how much of this decision is being forced upon him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes but discrimination against Canada is ok.



If I were the Bucks I'd say give us a list of teams you will accept a deal for ranked favorite to least favorite, and then trade him to the least favorite.

People keep saying it's not Yi it's his handlers, last time I checked he wants to play in the NBA, which is a league in a free country, if he wants to play in Milwaukee, he can. So I say he's somewhat to blame here too, I realize he's a young kid and a pawn but he has some leverage too, tell China if you don't cooperate I'll never play on your Olympic team again.

Whether he likes it or not he's being forced to play politics and so far he's just taking the party line.

easy for you to say russ. your family doesn't depend on the chinese government the way yi's likely does. it's not yi's fault. i'll bet he'd play for the bucks if the chinese govt would allow it.

and i laud the bucks for making the pick. the draft is set up for a reason. you cannot allow talented players to dictate where they're going otherwise the LA's, NY's, Chicago's will always end up with all the talent. as it is players are more apt to go there in FA, so the draft is the only shot a lot of smaller markets have at supreme talent. that's why i think abomb's comment is asinine.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You guys would really freak out over the baseball draft.

It's ironic that someone says "freaking commie" but fail to grasp that the draft is far more communist than capitalist. In the purest capitalistic sense a rookie who meets the requirements to join the league should be free to apply where ever he likes and lets the market determine the value of his services.

One of the biggest fears about people challenging things like age limits on a draft is that the courts would rule that the entire draft process should be voided.

Ultimately the NBA can't afford to "come down hard" on Yi for that reason and because Stern is trying to develop the potential cash cow that is China.

sorry chris, you're wrong. the draft is governed by the CBA negotiated between the nba and the players' union. it is no different than negotiating union wages or benefit packages with other industries. and the draft has been challenged in court numerous times and loses b/c it's not a sherman act violation.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Except that new players were never part of that bargain and the NBA owns a monopoly on professional basketball. It would be the equivalent of a hospital drafting me out of nursing school. A Nursing Union may have agreed to such a manner, but I never did and thus the agreement doesn't apply. I am free to select my workplace and seek out the best wage I can find.

Drafts circumvent a process that everyone else is entitled to. This is precisely why no league has ever tried to put further restrictions on a player who won't go to a certain team and generally they are accomodated in their demands. While it is likely that the courts would support the league, the potential that the draft would be declared illegal means it isn't worth the chance a league would take.

chris, legal precedent does not support your contentions. unions bargain away future employees' rights all the time. it is what they are designed to do, protect past, present, and future employees. and you're also wrong about the league never trying to put further restrictions on player signings, they used to have very stringent rules that extended to free agency too. check out the leon woods case. they lost some of those, but have won every case challenging the integrity of the draft (as has the nfl, largely - baseball need not worry about it b/c they actually have a congressional exemption from anti-trust laws if you can believe that!).

conceptually what you argue would seem logical, but it doesn't reflect the law.

 

[Russ Smith]

easy for you to say russ. your family doesn't depend on the chinese government the way yi's likely does. it's not yi's fault. i'll bet he'd play for the bucks if the chinese govt would allow it.

and i laud the bucks for making the pick. the draft is set up for a reason. you cannot allow talented players to dictate where they're going otherwise the LA's, NY's, Chicago's will always end up with all the talent. as it is players are more apt to go there in FA, so the draft is the only shot a lot of smaller markets have at supreme talent. that's why i think abomb's comment is asinine.

Like I said, whether he wants to be or not, he's in a situation where he has to make a political decision and right now he's taking the party line.

Wang Zhi Zhi was in a very similar situation and chose to tell the Chinese to piss off. He eventually went back and recanted and still plays there.

Given what he went through, this can't have been a surprise to Yi either, he had to know that it was likely at some point he would have a conflict with the Chinese government over this unless he agreed to let them run his NBA career.

In a perfect world he could just play ball and leave the politics at the door but this isn't a perfect world.

I strongly suspect if he really wanted to play in Milwaukee he could say so but he hasn't.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think you should do some more research on the subject.

lol, it's not even a question of CONSTITUTIONALITY . . . it has to do with the sherman act, and do you think my sports law class in law school would meet your definition of "more research?"

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

agreed although Chris' point is somewhat valid, it's not like Yi can just say I don't like the draft so I'll play for the other professional league in the US that has no draft.

Basically if you want to play with the best players in the world you have to play with the NBA.

I just personally feel the league is bigger than one player and that having a draft is a huge part of why the NBA succeeds.

you are all also forgetting a HUGE point . . . yi is not an american citizen, he is not entitled to all protections under u.s. law. in fact, it would be an interesting argument whether he has standing or not in a u.s. court of law as there is no official contract providing minimum contacts in the states. though ultimately i beleive a court would find, or create, minimum contacts to hear such a suit.

 

[azirish]

lol, it's not even a question of CONSTITUTIONALITY . . . it has to do with the sherman act, and do you think my sports law class in law school would meet your definition of "more research?"

Maybe it's covered under international law and treaties.

I can't think that going to court is likely to get anybody what they want. The Chinese cannot force the Bucks to trade him and going to court would not change that in next two to three years. The Bucks cannot make him sign and a law suit would not improve their chances.

In any case, I think both sides deserve each other.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I suppose we were really saying similar things. I don't think there is any way the draft process would be overturned in an American court, but you don't think the NBA is willing to invite a court challenge on a system with the appearance of a trust, collectively bargained or not. Both good points. Going to trial over something like this would be so expensive to the league, both in actual dollars and in negative publicity, that there are very few circumstances under which it would be worth it.

i completely disagree and the leagues have disagreed traditionally as well. the leagues (and i'm talking almost every single professional league) have time and time again gone through cases to save the integrity of their drafts and free agency systems. sometimes they lose (though thus far only with free agency - where do you think "plan b" came from with the nfl?), but they've always won with the draft. and it's FAAAR more expensive for the individual to maintain these lawsuits than it is for the deep pockets of the professional sports leagues.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Chris, NBA players are employed by the league, not by individual teams. It's the same as if someone gets hired by Intel and is then quickly assigned to a plant in a location he considers undesireable. He can accept the demand of his employer or he can quit, but he can't get very far by stamping his feet and saying, "This is America and I can work where I want to."

You would be surprised at what I see here at Intel.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

lol, it's not even a question of CONSTITUTIONALITY . . . it has to do with the sherman act, and do you think my sports law class in law school would meet your definition of "more research?"

Absolutely. I figured you or Cheese would chime in here eventually.

I had just read a bunch of stuff about this the last time the NFL had issues with the draft. The more I read, the more convinced I am the draft is a sham. I don't believe I ever said constitution. I said the courts could overturn the draft.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Here is some of the stuff I remember:

But that ignores the fact that the would-be players most affected by the decision weren't a party to the collective bargaining agreement, according to Joe Rosen, an adjunct professor of sports law at Boston College Law School.



"This should not be covered by the labor exemption because these [high-school] players are not covered by the collective bargaining agreement," said Rosen, who is starting a law firm and sports agency in Boston later this year. "The union doesn't represent the players who would bring this suit."



Roberts contended that collective-bargaining agreements apply as much to future members as current ones. He said that the appellate court's ruling against Clarett bears that out.



"Mike [McCann] has already argued that perspective and lost," Roberts said.




Prominent Los Angeles business and antitrust litigator Charles Stern, however, isn't so sure.




Stern said that the issue "raises some very troublesome questions." The Katten Muchin Rosenman partner believes the age limit boycotts an entire class of players capable of playing at the highest level. He says Roberts' contention that nonunion players are bound by union decisions is "probably an oversimplification."





Besides, McCann said, the decision to uphold the NFL's age limit was made only in the 2nd Circuit, leaving 11 other circuits to disagree if presented with a similar case, and the trial court initially agreed with Clarett.



"If labor laws always supersede antitrust laws when the matter is the subject of collective bargaining, then Clarett's case would never have made it out of pleadings," he said. "The fact that it did, and then won the first round, is pretty compelling evidence that the deference is not absolute, especially when management represents a monopoly like the NBA."

 

[Chris_Sanders]

BTW, this is a good blog to read about Sports Law.

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/

Nothing yet on Yi, but there is some discussion about the legalities of the age limits in the NBA draft even now.

 

[SunsTzu]

Good idea; unless of course, they can finagle him to the Lakers. Then he should be moved immediately.

I agree with this(mainly because I think Yi is going to be horrible in the NBA).

 

[Cheesebeef]

lol, it's not even a question of CONSTITUTIONALITY . . . it has to do with the sherman act, and do you think my sports law class in law school would meet your definition of "more research?"

and lawyers wonder why people hate lawyers. smug, arrogant know-it-alls!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

and lawyers wonder why people hate lawyers. smug, arrogant know-it-alls!

Didn't bother me

 

[Cheesebeef]

Didn't bother me

oh yeah it did!