Why you fire Kingsbury now

football karma

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its kinda uncharted territory here for Bidwill

how often in the NFL do coaches that turned in a .647 win % in the regular season --with no off field issues -- get fired?

I dont think you win 11 games by accident or fluke.

But that last 7 weeks weren't a fluke either: they deserved every one of those Ls.

if the team picks up next year where it left off -- its a 5 win team.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Krangodnzr

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I think I'm in the minority here:

I would definitely bring back Kingsbury. Do I think there are some levels of dysfunction on this team? Probably, but the end result was an 11-6 campaign.

The team DID fall apart down the stretch, but I think this is a function of Kyler Murray. Murray seems to alternate between being captain checkdown, or holding the ball too long waiting for the big play. During the initial stretch to start the year, Murray was actually playing QB the right way for the most part, alternating between taking what the defense gave him and sometimes holding the ball a little longer to hit a big play down the field. After the injury, Murray came back different. He seemed to be pressing and as we all have noticed, he seems to mentally check out any time the team gets down initially.

It can be argued that Kingsbury has to fix Murray's proclivities. I get that, but I don't think we can reasonably expect a coach, with limited time weekly to fix these issues. I blame Kyler Murray for these issues; these issues are related to his lack of preparation. One of the life lessons I've learned in the Army is that better prepared people tend to perform better.

Hard work often beats natural talent. Growing up, I was always the most intelligent kid in every class I was in. I didn't have to study or work hard at all. I was just always really good at retaining and processing information. But when I came into the military, I quickly learned that people that worked harder than I did, often performed better.

Murray is the most explosive talent I've ever seen play QB. He can out run nearly anyone on the field and he can throw a deep ball better than all but a few QBs I've ever witnessed. But this talent isn't enough. It never will be. His lack of preparation is even more exacerbated by his lack of starts in college. Murray, development wise, is closer to a QB that just completed year two than a QB that completed year three.

There is a reason that HOF caliber coaches and talent evaluators like Bill Parcells, Gil Brandt, and Bill Walsh all highly valued QBs that had lots of college starts. Talent + preparation + experience is the recipe for a good NFL QB. The Cardinals witnessed the tail end of two highly talented QBs over the past two decades in Warner and Palmer. If I'm the Cardinals, I'm reaching out to both Palmer AND Warner and I'm trying to get both of them to talk with Murray, to work with him a bit, to mentor him.

I think it was @Chopper0080 who pointed out that Kingsbury won two of three games that Colt McCoy started. We all have probably seen Colt McCoy as a starting QB in the past, so we have a pretty good baseline of his talent level. McCoy probably had two of his best games ever and I don't think it was a coincidence. Kingsbury schemed great games for a QB that lacks talent a bit, but has experience and prepares the right way.

I think if you flipped Murray and Stafford around, the Cardinals likely win 14 games this year. And I say this as a guy who would still prefer Murray. I just think that Murray cost the Cardinals a number of games this year that a pro's pro would have won.
 

Totally_Red

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I think Keim and Kingsbury are attached at the hip. You don't fire one without firing the other. I think both are gone after the 2022 season barring a deep playoff run and dramatic improvement by Kyler Murray.

It is difficult to fire a coach after winning 11 games and making improvement over a 3 year run. Problem is the coaches have not really developed talent aside from Budda Baker and he was developed by the previous regime. Other teams in the division develop their draft choices; the Cardinals haven't.

This year's hot start was largely due to an infusion of veterans. That is unsustainable going forward.

The next regime in 2023 may have some high draft choices to rebuild with.
 

football karma

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After the injury, Murray came back different. He seemed to be pressing and as we all have noticed, he seems to mentally check out any time the team gets down initially.

Yards per pass attempt pre-bye: 7.91 [this includes Colt] K1 was 8.28
Yards per pass attempt post-bye: 6.22

for perspective: a QB with a 8.28 YPA is top 3 in the NFL / a QB with a 6.2 is close to last

in that regard, he literally went from one of the best QBs to one of the worst

for the two games he had Hop post bye: his YPA was 7. thats a bit below average
for the remaining games without Hop: YPA was 5.6. thats Josh Rosen territory


so what happened? i have my theories but need to research
 

DaHilg

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its kinda uncharted territory here for Bidwill

how often in the NFL do coaches that turned in a .647 win % in the regular season --with no off field issues -- get fired?

I dont think you win 11 games by accident or fluke.

But that last 7 weeks weren't a fluke either: they deserved every one of those Ls.

if the team picks up next year where it left off -- its a 5 win team.
I do I wrote an entire post about it.. I believe this team had its success through roster additions.

Fact; Over the past 32 seasons 20 teams selected a QB with the #1 pick overall. 70% of those teams went to the playoffs with 3 years of that selection. 80% of the teams had a 9 win season within 3 years of that selection.

Thus history shows it likely doesn’t matter who your coach is. You are likely to go from worst in the league to playoffs within 3 years of you selecting at QB #1 overall unless you select a complete bust as QB.
 

cheesebeef

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And yet many GMs have been fired for filtering through three HCs and no playoff wins. Yet, no local coverage that I have seen calling for Keim to be fired.
1 playoff win... in 9 seasons as GM. Only 3 playoff appearances. All ending with HUMILIATING losses.

How any GM could be safe with that lack of playoff appearances, success, and punctuated by record setting ineptitude once in the playoffs, is beyond me.
 
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football karma

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1 playoff win... in 9 seasons as GM. Only 3 playoff appearances. All ending with HUMILIATING losses.

if I'm the owner -- this on top of watching the #8 and #16 overall draft picks from the last two years spend most of their time on the sideline in the most important game in the last 5 seasons or so might do it
 

Brian in Mesa

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It isn't troublesome. Right or wrong, how many coaches have been fired after winning 11 games that year? Very, very few.
In the last 21 years, 9 coaches have been fired after winning seasons. 2 won more than 11 games. 5 were coaches of playoff teams. 2 had won playoff games.

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Source: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/will-the-cardinals-fire-kliff-kingsbury-another-late-season-collapse-spurs-questions-about-coachs-job-security/ar-AASU1vt#:~:text=Since 2000, nine coaches have been fired after,massive shock to see them make a change.
 
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