Why they lost

[Joe Mama]

Its simple. The Suns lost Game 6 and really lost the series because they could not hit the open shots consistently. Tonight the Phoenix Suns had open shots after open shots they could not drain.

Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire shot relatively well tonight. The rest of the Phoenix Suns combined for 15-53 or 28%. Basically you aren't going to win many games in which your team shoots only 36% from the field.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

I agree that the outside shooting killed us. But we were in this game. If Marbury hadn't been hurt in Game 4, we would be looking at a whole different series.

 

[Charles V]

Its simple. The Suns lost Game 6 and really lost the series because they could not hit the open shots consistently. Tonight the Phoenix Suns had open shots after open shots they could not drain.

I agree.

We could stick FJ under a microscope and find plenty of flaws, but (IMHO) it comes down to the players. In the end, San Antonio made the big shots. It hurts, but those are the same shots we will make next year.

"Next Year". I hate those words, but I'm gonna hang my hat on them because I believe in this team.

 

[cly2tw]

Or, maybe our players got too tired to sustain the same pressure on their parameter players in the late game situation? Isn't there a pattern that we can't play consistently good for more than 2 quarters in a game? And a simple reason for this: small ball, which you live and die with?

 

[cheng]

Again that small lineup in the whole 4th quarter, all the Spurs needed was to hit a few wide open threes from their shooters to run away. They got out rebounded badly again in the 3rd after Outlaw went out. The Spurs were able to get offensive rebound after offensive rebound off missed FTs. Marion just can't possibly box out Robinson or Duncan. JJ had 3 very bad TOs in the 4th. Penny didn't shoot well in the second half. And Marbury was out of control the whole game, his 4th and 5th foul were just plain stupid.

Small ball did work for a while in the second quarter when they pressured the ball so well and created many TOs, and most importantly they hit their shots.

I think one of the reasons they play poorly in the playoffs is their inexperience.

Nevertheless, it has been a very good learning experience for this young team. They will prepare themselve them better next year.

 

[Joe Mama]

How many rebounds from their missed free throws did the Spurs get last night? I don't know about the rest of you, but almost the entire series I have found myself hoping they would make their second free throws. That way there would be no chance for a San Antonio offensive rebound.

I do think the officiating in this series was much better after the first two games. That said what did San Antonio have to do to get called for a loose ball foul? Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire were constantly getting pushed under the basket and pulled aside (Rose) on the free throws.

I want the Phoenix Suns to get a Malik Rose type player. I get to believe they aren't too hard to combine as long as the team is willing to give a good, slightly undersized power player a chance. Mike Sweetny will probably be gone when the sun's draft, but Mario Austin might be there. I wonder if there's any way to get hold of a guy like Lonnie Baxter from Chicago? I'm thinking of someone who was a good college frontcourt player. They need to bring a lot of energy. They could be slightly undersized but with long arms.

Joe Mama

 

[SUTTILL]

Not hitting the shots was in part due to the defense we were playing. When we play "small" for most of the games, I think our shooters had some weary legs. When your legs are gone, so is your shot.

 

[fordronken]

C'mon. Did you guys see Stephon last night? That's not the guy we knew all season long. He was hurting badly. He couldn't be aggressive. With a healthy Steph and everyone else contributing, even as much as they did last night, this series would have gone seven, and possibly even been over with the Suns taking it in 6.

However, a healthy Stephon would have changed the game, and there would have been adjustments. Who knows how it would have turned out? But our offense is at its best when Stephon can be Stephon, and last night, he played like a regular season Tony Parker at AWA(well...maybe slightly better).

 

[elindholm]

I don't know about the rest of you, but almost the entire series I have found myself hoping they would make their second free throws. That way there would be no chance for a San Antonio offensive rebound.

Yes! I was thinking exactly the same thing. On that one toward the end of the game though (Duncan missing two in a row), the replay sure made it look like Robinson shoved Marion in the back.

 

[SweetD]

IMO it was WastedFate who was at the Game. I was a little pissed at the refs for not calling any fouls when Marbury drove to the lane. Great game and great series!

 

[JS22]

I knew i'd hear it when I got back..heh.

0-7

I just want to goto a game in which they WIN! ....Maybe i'll get season tickets.

 

[jbeecham]

has a team ever gone 0-41 at home?

 

[BC867]

Why was JJ at Point Guard?

I felt for Joe Johnson during Game 6. What did he commit . . . something like four turnovers in three minutes in the 4th Quarter?

Why was he at the Point and Penny at the 2 when Stephon went out with five fouls and the game on the line?

That's alot of pressure to put on a young player who hasn't arrived yet?

Wouldn't it have been more logical for Penny to play the Point and JJ at the 2?

Having lost by only two points, and the way we owned the Spurs during the season, we might have pulled out the game, even with Stephon on the bench. ***

I've had high hopes for JJ ever since he arrived from Boston. I hope that emotional damage hasn't been done by Frank . . . and that JJ works on his shooting consistency and ball handling over the summer. We need his development.

Now the onus is on management to make a few well-rounded moves during the off-season. This year was a pleasant surprise! If we're eliminated in the first round next season, it will be a disappointment! And ticket sales will suffer the following season.

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Or, maybe our players got too tired to sustain the same pressure on their parameter players in the late game situation? Isn't there a pattern that we can't play consistently good for more than 2 quarters in a game? And a simple reason for this: small ball, which you live and die with.

*** I agree with you, cly2tw. That's the shortcoming of small ball.Even if we had pulled out Game 6 at home, small ball would not have triumphed in a Game 7 in San Antonio. The refs don't favor it on the road during the playoffs.

 

[BALLERMANIA2]

we lost because of coaching, coaching, steph being hurt and oh yeah, coaching. frank johnson is the most non adjusting, bull headed goofball i have seen in a while. in a series, you are suppose to ADJUST. i'm thinking that the average ball player off of the street could have averaged two made three pointers in this series. sometimes the outside shooters had time to eat a sandwich before they took some of those wide open threes. the double and triple team worked at first, but what did the spurs do, they ADJUSTED. frank "small- ball" johnson doesnt believe that **** stinks. how about the critical rebounds through out the series that we didnt get. yeah joe johnson, i want you to constantly box out the over active malik rose. hey you too penny, you go ahead and give david robinson a good shove. give me a freakin break. i really tried to give frank johnson a fair run, but time after time he blew it. he didnt make the suns better this year, it was the maturity of marbury, penny stepping up, amare being much better than expected and the high energy bo and lil jake show. i didnt see jack that frank johnson did to improve the team and it cost the suns an upset.

 

[Joe Mama]

I also did not like the way Frank Johnson had them double teaming Tim Duncan every single time. Game 4 they mixed it up a little, but for some reason in Game 6 they went back to the predictable double-team. It may even less sense with Marbury double teaming because Duncan was able to pass right over him. I would have let Amare Stoudemire guard him straight up a few times.

That said it's a little hard to argue with the defense because San Antonio shot something like 28% from behind the arc. I don't know about you, but I would let them fire away at a 28% clip.

The real problem was not the defense. It worked well at times and not so well and others. The problem was the offense or lack thereof. Certainly much of the credit has to go to San Antonio, but the Suns offense needs some work this summer. The second obvious problem for the Suns this series was the lack of bench production.

Joe

 

[sly fly]

A 28% clip from behind the arc is "almost" the break-even point. Paul Westphal will argue with you on that one.

- I'm also surprised that FJ didn't adjust accordingly. His defensive philosophy will be debated for a long time (amongst us .

- Big Jake is in his *hit house big time. I really can't say I blame FJ. Big Jake hasn't progressed one inch. Where did all the promise go? Something else I casually noticed throughout pre-game: Big Jake is a clown. Not sure if he takes the game too seriously just judging by the way he goes through the motions and throws up reverse layups from his hip.

Colangelo bent over backward to get this guy out of his Greek contract. I'll bet he's getting a little antsy for some of that payback.

- PHX lost because they weren't strong with the ball. Joe Johnson was soft (bouncing dribbles off his foot). Stephon Marbury was soft (not finishing layups over "Speedy"). Elimination of those "soft" mistakes and we're going to game 7.

- Interesting comments by Steph mentioning that he wants an Elden Campbell-type player. Kurt Thomas would be nice.

Biggest off-season priorities:

- Find out if they want to continue with the Big Iakovos experiment. If not, look to move up in the draft. Let's face it, this team is not going to wait for him to develop.

- Sign a scoring, speedy point-guard to backup Steph. (Earl Boykins, anyone?)

- Work out the hitch in CJ's jumper.

- Keep the team somewhat together over the offseason. This team just needs natural development.

- Now that they've got a taste, let's hope the hunger remains!

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by sly fly


- Big Jake is in his *hit house big time. I really can't say I blame FJ. Big Jake hasn't progressed one inch.

You've got to be kidding. How do you know he hasn't progressed? And if he hasn't, how can you blame him? He's injured, then when he gets better, they don't give him any time. Blame that all you want on Jake, but he's not the one that decides when he plays or not.

 

[sly fly]

You've got to be kidding. How do you know he hasn't progressed? And if he hasn't, how can you blame him? He's injured, then when he gets better, they don't give him any time. Blame that all you want on Jake, but he's not the one that decides when he plays or not.

You're telling me you think he's progressed? If he has, then why isn't he getting any time??

You think FJ keeps him out because he's good? I'm sure the Suns coaches aren't that stupid. LMAO.

He's been injured off and on ever since he arrived. What makes you think the rest of his career is going to be any different? Heck, he's already had multiple back operations.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by sly fly


You're telling me you think he's progressed? If he has, then why isn't he getting any time??

You think FJ keeps him out because he's good? I'm sure the Suns coaches aren't that stupid. LMAO.

He's been injured off and on ever since he arrived. What makes you think the rest of his career is going to be any different? Heck, he's already had multiple back operations.

I know what I've seen, and against the twin towers, Jake could have been at least a minor factor--more so than Scott Williams at least. I know you hate the guy, but what is your view of progression?

 

[sly fly]

I know what I've seen, and against the twin towers, Jake could have been at least a minor factor--more so than Scott Williams at least. I know you hate the guy, but what is your view of progression?

I don't hate the guy.

And, I agree he could have been used against SA. With success.

But, I was expecting to see at least a "slight" marked improvement in every facet of his game. I have not seen it.

He's still stiff. He still has no vertical. He brings the ball down. And, he plods up and down the court. Other than that he fits in perfect with this team.

I know a "ball player" when I see one. I think you do, too. I would consider PHX to be an athletic, fast paced team. Not sure if Jake fits in with this picture.




...(I hope I'm wrong)

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by sly fly
I know what I've seen, and against the twin towers, Jake could have been at least a minor factor--more so than Scott Williams at least. I know you hate the guy, but what is your view of progression?

I don't hate the guy.

And, I agree he could have been used against SA. With success.

But, I was expecting to see at least a "slight" marked improvement in every facet of his game. I have not seen it.

He's still stiff. He still has no vertical. He brings the ball down. And, he plods up and down the court. Other than that he fits in perfect with this team.

I know a "ball player" when I see one. I think you do, too. I would consider PHX to be an athletic, fast paced team. Not sure if Jake fits in with this picture.




...(I hope I'm wrong)

Actually he did improve this season. He's still has the problems you listed above, but he is much better at boxing out the other team, getting good rebounding position himself, and keeping his man from posting up with good position. I agree that he will have to be very could fundamentally to overcome his Luc Longley like lack of athleticism.

Joe Mama

 

[jbeecham]

I watched every Suns game this past season and I really didn't see much of Big Jake at all. Early in the season he was obviously bothered by the back injury and then he had surgery and missed a lot of games and then he never really played once he came back (except against the Lakers where I thought he played really well).

How can we judge his progress this season when he never really got to play because of either injury or FJ?

 

[cly2tw]

I suspect they didn't play Big Jake for the reason of the upcoming contract extension. Despite the chance of getting into the playoffs, this Suns team didn't figure to get over the first round. Jake was injured most of the season. He is a slow learner. So, giving him minutes may get him some good stats but won't affect our winning chance substantially. And there was the risk that with the freshly recovered back he got reinjured. With all these prospects, it's best from the management point of view to shelf him for the rest of the season. This way, he gets stronger with practices and would be less expensive to extend beyong his rooky contract.

I'd offer him the following incentive-ladden contract. Say, start at 2.5 mil per for 4 years with team option for two more years with a 12% annual increase. When he manages averaging 25min a game for any year, the base salary increases to 3.5mil from that year on. Two of such years, the base salary gets to 4.2mil and the contract automaticly extends to 6 years without the option. This contract woul IMO provide the best balanced incentives to induce Jake to work on all facets of his game and be useful for the team, while the team bears only limited risk (about 13 mil for 4 years) if he didn't pan out.

 

[jbeecham]

The Suns will probably use their team option on Big Jake which means they probably won't talk about resigning him until after next season so not playing him now doesn't make much sense if it was for contractual reasons unless they don't take the option and sign him to a low paying long term deal. The 2nd option may be smart for the Suns if they want to keep Jake long-term because he really hasn't earned a large $ contract in the 3 years he's been here.

 

[cly2tw]

They already picked up the option for the fourth year of Jake's rookie contract last summer. The problem with no extention is the distorted incentives for the player and the team alike, as most glaringly displayed by the Clippers this season. You don't want to let it happen unless the player's demand is outragous. The Colangellos won't let it happen either.