Suns players who were bonafide superstars plus tiers

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To add onto the Chambers/Booker comp and taking our minds off that horrible L…

Only qualify if played multiple seasons here (no CP3):

Tier 1: Superstars -

Westphal - 3x first team all-nba and led Suns to their first finals

KJ - elite numbers, out dueled the likes of Stockton/Payton and dominated the defending champion Lakers. His 95’ series vs Houston was legendary

Barkley - duh

Kidd - weakest of the group but 3x first team all-NBA here, all-defense, considered the best PG in the league but was surrounded by misfits/stiffs

Nash - duhhh

—————-

Tier 2:
Connie Hawkins
Dick Van Arsdale
Charlie Scott
Alvan Adams
Walter Davis
Dennis Johnson
Tom Chambers
Shawn Marion
Amare Stoudemire
Devin Booker

—————-

Tier 3:
Gail Goodrich
Charlie Scott
Maurice Lucas
Larry Nance
Jeff Hornacek
Dan Majerle
Stephon Marbury
(Joe Johnson)
(Goran Dragic)


(probably missing some easy ones)
 
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Hoop Head

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I'd put Dragic in tier 3 since you have Marbury, Majerle, and Hornacek there.

I think Paul will belong in tier 2 so long as he sticks around for another couple of seasons.

I'd also bump Marion down to tier 3. He was not someone to carry a team and ultimately was a complimentary piece. A very good complimentary piece but not on the same level as Stat, Booker, or anyone else mentioned.

I'd bump KJ down a tier as well. While I loved him back in the day, he wasn't healthy enough to be a true superstar. You couldn't count on him to win you games like the others in tier 1 where if they had a good game, it was virtually guaranteed we'd win.
 

Yuma

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Connie Hawkins his first two seasons definitely tier one. Then age caught him in it's vices! That guy had some amazing games his first two years in the game. Too bad he was black listed and had a limited career.
 
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I'd put Dragic in tier 3 since you have Marbury, Majerle, and Hornacek there.

I think Paul will belong in tier 2 so long as he sticks around for another couple of seasons.

I'd also bump Marion down to tier 3. He was not someone to carry a team and ultimately was a complimentary piece. A very good complimentary piece but not on the same level as Stat, Booker, or anyone else mentioned.

I'd bump KJ down a tier as well. While I loved him back in the day, he wasn't healthy enough to be a true superstar. You couldn't count on him to win you games like the others in tier 1 where if they had a good game, it was virtually guaranteed we'd win.

Guys like Raja and Diaw were complimentary pieces but there’s no SSOL without Marion. He did the dirty work and was extremely durable. He’s one of the most productive players in franchise history despite his shortcomings and playoffs disappearing acts.

Dragic is a good one.
 

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You know, Booker has basically every scoring Suns record for this point in his career. Most 30 point games highest average to start his career etc.

I get he played terrible last night, but he has to be tier 1 - especially if you put someone like Kidd there.
 

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Guys like Raja and Diaw were complimentary pieces but there’s no SSOL without Marion. He did the dirty work and was extremely durable. He’s one of the most productive players in franchise history despite his shortcomings and playoffs disappearing acts.

Dragic is a good one.


Marion was a great 3rd option but that's all he was, a 3rd option. Everyone else in tier 1 and 2 could be the best player on a playoff team except for him, if he's your best player then you aren't going anywhere. When he's your #2 then you can win a series and 50 games in a season but that's it also because despite the fact he'll fill up the box score, he's not a good scorer and that's what separates him from.the others in tier 2 also.
 

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You know, Booker has basically every scoring Suns record for this point in his career. Most 30 point games highest average to start his career etc.

I get he played terrible last night, but he has to be tier 1 - especially if you put someone like Kidd there.

Kidd was the best PG in the league when he was here. Has Booker been the best SG in the league at any point so far? No, he's not even been a top 3 SG.

He might get there but he's not someone who is viewed as a true franchise cornerstone that you can build a contender around. With Kidd, you could. It just didn't work out here due to a weak supporting cast. Booker has had weaker casts but Kidd carried his to the postseason, Booker hasnt. I know we're there now but that is the CP3 effect.
 

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ASFN's new motto: "Love the teams, hate the players."

why are things so black and white with you? Saying Devin is an all-star but not a superstar isn’t hating anyone. No ones saying he’s terrible. He’s an All-Star level player. People are just making the argument that we can’t build a title contender around a team without a bonafide superstar.
 

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why are things so black and white with you? Saying Devin is an all-star but not a superstar isn’t hating anyone. No ones saying he’s terrible. He’s an All-Star level player. People are just making the argument that we can’t build a title contender around a team without a bonafide superstar.
I was being facetious, but if you want to get into a personal battle go right ahead.
 
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GatorAZ

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Marion was a great 3rd option but that's all he was, a 3rd option. Everyone else in tier 1 and 2 could be the best player on a playoff team except for him, if he's your best player then you aren't going anywhere. When he's your #2 then you can win a series and 50 games in a season but that's it also because despite the fact he'll fill up the box score, he's not a good scorer and that's what separates him from.the others in tier 2 also.

In 06’ Marion was the 2nd best player on a 2-seed team. He led the Suns in points, rebounds, steals, blocks, minutes, Win Shares, VORP and was all-NBA/all-star. He was without a doubt more than just a complimentary guy.
 

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In 06’ Marion was the 2nd best player on a 2-seed team. He led the Suns in points, rebounds, steals, blocks, minutes, Win Shares, VORP and was all-NBA/all-star. He was without a doubt more than just a complimentary guy.

That was 1 year and we were stacked elsewhere, with the leagues MVP and a true superstar driving the ship.

I'm not discounting him as a player entirely but he's not on the same level as Amare, Connie Hawkins, Alvan Adams and the others in tier 2.
 

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That was 1 year and we were stacked elsewhere, with the leagues MVP and a true superstar driving the ship.

I'm not discounting him as a player entirely but he's not on the same level as Amare, Connie Hawkins, Alvan Adams and the others in tier 2.

agreed.
 

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Guys like Raja and Diaw were complimentary pieces but there’s no SSOL without Marion. He did the dirty work and was extremely durable. He’s one of the most productive players in franchise history despite his shortcomings and playoffs disappearing acts.

Dragic is a good one.
I agree with this about Marion. he's undervalued around the NBA in my opinion. certainly for his career success, consistency, and longevity, I would put him above many of his other teammates in Phoenix, even Amare, of corse Nash is first ballot HOF. I will concede Amare's production before he hurt his knee was off the charts and stands out over any other suns player (Aside from Nash). Amare had the capability to shoot the ball as well which made him a difficult player to guard when he played with Nash.

Dallas would not have won a title without Marion's offensive and defensive play, but certainly he was incredible above the rim at Phoenix with Nash feeding him the ball. he was a hell of a defender, rebounder, and was a better offensive player than people realize. probably the only guy that could legitimately check some of the top superstar players in the game in his day, like Lebron, dirk, Kobe, KD, Tony Parker, etc. he probably got highlighted for getting scored on a lot, but what about the games where he slowed people down and took them out of their game?
 
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Lorenzo

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In 06’ Marion was the 2nd best player on a 2-seed team. He led the Suns in points, rebounds, steals, blocks, minutes, Win Shares, VORP and was all-NBA/all-star. He was without a doubt more than just a complimentary guy.
In 2011 he did a lot of defending of Kobe, KD, Lebron/dwade. he also had double doubles in many of those games. of corse he was viewed as a complimentary player by that point because he was not an all star player that scored 20 points a game. but he was still an all star in my book if you look at what he did overall. no way Dallas wins a title without Marion's versatilely and willingness to compete and defeat the best players in the game.
 
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GatorAZ

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That was 1 year and we were stacked elsewhere, with the leagues MVP and a true superstar driving the ship.

I'm not discounting him as a player entirely but he's not on the same level as Amare, Connie Hawkins, Alvan Adams and the others in tier 2.

You can discredit those guys for the same reasons you’re doing it to Marion. And Shawn was an all star before the Suns were stacked. His game just wasn’t sexy.
 

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Kidd was the best PG in the league when he was here. Has Booker been the best SG in the league at any point so far? No, he's not even been a top 3 SG.

He might get there but he's not someone who is viewed as a true franchise cornerstone that you can build a contender around. With Kidd, you could. It just didn't work out here due to a weak supporting cast. Booker has had weaker casts but Kidd carried his to the postseason, Booker hasnt. I know we're there now but that is the CP3 effect.

I don't care who else was playing at the time in the rest of the league. This is what I know, If I have to choose to have one player on my team, I am 100% taking Booker over Kidd.
 

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I don't care who else was playing at the time in the rest of the league. This is what I know, If I have to choose to have one player on my team, I am 100% taking Booker over Kidd.

I didn't even like Kidd as a Sun, thought he was overrated and I wanted him gone the moment the french fry thing happened, but if we're talking pure basketball and team building, I chose Kidd over Booker any day of the week. Could orchestrate an offense, elite passer, great defender, couldn't shoot to save his life. Was kinda that generation's PG version of Ben Simmons.
 

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I didn't even like Kidd as a Sun, thought he was overrated and I wanted him gone the moment the french fry thing happened, but if we're talking pure basketball and team building, I chose Kidd over Booker any day of the week. Could orchestrate an offense, elite passer, great defender, couldn't shoot to save his life. Was kinda that generation's PG version of Ben Simmons.
Ditto
 

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Kidd did add the three point shot later in his career. If you are defensive minded kidd is probably the point guard you want. I don’t recall Kidd’s tenure in Phoenix. Offensively, no one could touch Nash’s overall ability. He could of scored a lot more if he wanted to. Nash is one of the best jump shooters I’ve ever seen. He was a man ahead of his time. Now look at the nba.
 
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I didn't even like Kidd as a Sun, thought he was overrated and I wanted him gone the moment the french fry thing happened, but if we're talking pure basketball and team building, I chose Kidd over Booker any day of the week. Could orchestrate an offense, elite passer, great defender, couldn't shoot to save his life. Was kinda that generation's PG version of Ben Simmons.

The Suns won 50+ games from 98-01’ and their 2nd best player was probably a combination of Gugliotta, Uncle Cliff and washed Penny. Kidd was really good. Had they found a way to keep McDyess they’d have been in business.
 

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The Suns won 50+ games from 98-01’ and their 2nd best player was probably a combination of Gugliotta, Uncle Cliff and washed Penny. Kidd was really good. Had they found a way to keep McDyess they’d have been in business.

losing McDyess really killed the potential of that team. I mean, pre-lockout, the talk was bringing back McDyess AND adding Pippen. Can you imagine how good that team would have been defensively with Kidd/Pippen/McDyess swarming the floor? Ugh. That lockout and McDyess being an idiot just ruined everything. Instead of Dice/Pippen we ended up with Googs/Longley.

man, being a Suns fan just sucks for the most part.
 

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losing McDyess really killed the potential of that team. I mean, pre-lockout, the talk was bringing back McDyess AND adding Pippen. Can you imagine how good that team would have been defensively with Kidd/Pippen/McDyess swarming the floor? Ugh. That lockout and McDyess being an idiot just ruined everything. Instead of Dice/Pippen we ended up with Googs/Longley.

man, being a Suns fan just sucks for the most part.

And Googs wouldn't have even been half bad of a consolation, honestly... until he almost immediately destroyed his knee (and career) after getting here.

It was all very, very Suns.
 

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You can discredit those guys for the same reasons you’re doing it to Marion. And Shawn was an all star before the Suns were stacked. His game just wasn’t sexy.

Shawn was an All-Star before Nash came... as Marbury's sidekick. He wasn't the man then, he was a complimentary piece. I think he was one of the best utility players in Suns history, and in the league as a whole over the last 20 years. He could do anything asked of him at a very high level except score and that's what keeps him from being more than tier 3.

Someone who can carry a team as a contender or pretender needs to be able to put the team on their back and gets buckets, unfortunately that's the one thing Marion couldn't do. He could score on put backs, cuts, and hit open 3's but he couldn't create shots for himself and would be left open for those 3's because he wasn't someone opponents had to stop offensively.
 

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Shawn was an All-Star before Nash came... as Marbury's sidekick. He wasn't the man then, he was a complimentary piece. I think he was one of the best utility players in Suns history, and in the league as a whole over the last 20 years. He could do anything asked of him at a very high level except score and that's what keeps him from being more than tier 3.

Someone who can carry a team as a contender or pretender needs to be able to put the team on their back and gets buckets, unfortunately that's the one thing Marion couldn't do. He could score on put backs, cuts, and hit open 3's but he couldn't create shots for himself and would be left open for those 3's because he wasn't someone opponents had to stop offensively.
Yup. Maybe one of the greatest supporting cast members ever.
 

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