Update on Berry

[ajcardfan]

I have to say, that's pretty disappointing. I have no idea what Berry thinks he's doing by not coming to OTAs. He DIDN'T HAVE TO SIGN THE DEAL! Maybe he's thinking about hanging it up?

Bertrand Berry Skipping OTAs, Too
Posted by Mike Florio on June 11, 2009, 11:48 a.m.
At a time when they have been dealing with disgruntled players like Anquan Boldin and Darnell Dockett, the Cardinals have had an unexpected absence from voluntary offseason workouts.

Defensive end Bertrand Berry.

The eleven-year veteran signed a one-year, $1 million contract earlier this year, after finding no interest on the open market. Per Kent Somers of the Arizona Republic, the team had reduced its offer to Berry by the time he decided to stay put.

And so he has stayed away from optional drills.

“I’m disappointed he’s not here,” said coach Ken Whisenhunt. “We have an expectation from veteran players who have done a lot for this team, that they continue to lead and be here and show the young guys how to work. That’s time you never get back.”

That sounds good, but when you’ve got a player who apparently feels like he settled for something less than what he thinks he deserves, his non-participation in voluntary workouts shouldn’t be a surprise.

The smarter move for the Cardinals might have been to not bring Berry back at all.

 

[cardsfanmd]

This really doesn't bother me. Berry has put his work in and isn't going to learn anything at these OTAs anyhow. All is absence means to me is more reps for Cody Brown and Will Davis and that cant be a bad thing. I couldn't care less about him not being there to "coach up" the young guys. We have people who we pay a lot of money and whose sole purpose with the organization is to do this.

 

[joeshmo]

Cant believe Berry actually thought the same offer would be on the table 13 days into free agency and 6 new signings after the original offer. Especially the day after they signed his competition Haggans to a long term deal. Dude got some really bad advice or he is really dumb.

Wis did sound upset with him in his comments from yesterdays OTA's and you have to ask yourself - Did Wiz specifically bring up Cody Brown and Will Davis as two of the 3 OTA Standouts as -

1. A jab to Berry for not showing up, trying to send Berry a message that he is replaceable so he better get his mind right.
2. He really did think they stood out and Berry might be in trouble of having a job after he missed all of OTA's giving his competition more reps to improve themselves.

I think those are the only two options when Wiz made his comments about Davis and Brown.

We shall see???

 

[ajcardfan]

This really doesn't bother me. Berry has put his work in and isn't going to learn anything at these OTAs anyhow. All is absence means to me is more reps for Cody Brown and Will Davis and that cant be a bad thing. I couldn't care less about him not being there to "coach up" the young guys. We have people who we pay a lot of money and whose sole purpose with the organization is to do this.

We had decades of the vets on this team having bad attitudes about extra work. I hate any step back in that direction. And, the leadership of this team has clearly regressed this offseason.

 

[joeshmo]

All is absence means to me is more reps for Cody Brown and Will Davis and that cant be a bad thing.

Playing Devils advocate here but isnt it a bad thing for Berry?

Not a bad thing to the Cards or those two rookies, but it could be a bad thing for Berry. His younger, cheaper, competition is getting better and becuase Berry isnt there they are getting more reps and getting better faster then they would have if Berry was there taking away some of the rookies reps. Look at Boldin last year. Breaston got more reps, got better, played very good, which in turn hurt some in Boldins stance of wanting a new contract, not a lot but it did hurt his leverage some.

If the coaches like the progression of those two rookies from now through preseason who do you think is the odd man out when the final cuts come down. If healthy it sure wont be the current starters in Okeafer or Haggans?

 

[English on tour]

We have lost out only in what Berry could have shown the new guys in these last couple of weeks. All he has shown them is how not to act.

Maybe they see him lose his spot and nobody dares miss next it season....time will tell.

 

[cgolden]

This really doesn't bother me. Berry has put his work in and isn't going to learn anything at these OTAs anyhow. All is absence means to me is more reps for Cody Brown and Will Davis and that cant be a bad thing. I couldn't care less about him not being there to "coach up" the young guys. We have people who we pay a lot of money and whose sole purpose with the organization is to do this.

Am I way off base or isn't there a new defense being installed right now? I know we've sort of run a version of the 3-4 in the past couple of years but aren't there going to be significant changes to how the OLB's line up and their responsibilities? And isn't that the kind of thing that a guy who's vying for playing time might want to pick up on as soon as possible?

We can play the veteran, not much to learn card all we want but I guarantee that Whiz and the coaching staff isn't thinking, "oh well he's a vet, no big deal."

 

[Redheart]

I know that this thread is not Berry-bashing, so why do I feel a need to defend him?

I think he was our best DE last year, he played all through the play-offs while Haggans and LaBoy were out.

I do agree with Joe, that he seemed to make some pretty questionable moves...testing free agency? Come on Bert, you are not a spring chicken and you do have a nasty injury history with the exception of last year when you were an iron-man all the way to the SB.

Thing is, you could still get cut, and then I would be missing the Big Red Rage with the B-TRAIN; one of my favorite radio shows...

You never know, maybe he is in great shape, doing MMA or something....lol.

 

[Stout]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Berry eventually gets cut before the season starts. He's older and clearly not the player he used to be. IMO he's being kept for insurance and as a seasoned vet. He's losing leadership status in the coaching staff's eyes, IMO. He's also losing reps to younger players. Our team has shown that they will not hesitate to let a guy go and plug a younger, unproven kid into his place. What makes Berry so sure we won't do that to him? It sounds to me like Berry has reached that point in his career where he just isn't that hot a commodity, and he isn't happy about it. Oh well. You either deal with it or you wind up getting cut. I think that's what's going to happen to him. He's been a good guy for us, both on and off the field, but his days with the team, IMO, will be over by the end of the preseason.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Playing Devils advocate here but isnt it a bad thing for Berry?

Not a bad thing to the Cards or those two rookies, but it could be a bad thing for Berry. His younger, cheaper, competition is getting better and becuase Berry isnt there they are getting more reps and getting better faster then they would have if Berry was there taking away some of the rookies reps. Look at Boldin last year. Breaston got more reps, got better, played very good, which in turn hurt some in Boldins stance of wanting a new contract, not a lot but it did hurt his leverage some.

If the coaches like the progression of those two rookies from now through preseason who do you think is the odd man out when the final cuts come down. If healthy it sure wont be the current starters in Okeafer or Haggans?

Absolutely it's a bad thing for Berry IMO. That doesn't neccessarily mean it's a bad thing for the team though, and that's what we care about. The way I look at it, the better acclimated the two rooks get with the system and the sooner they can become factors the better we are. The easiest way I know to quickly improve a player in any sports is to give them more reps. I dont really care what happens with Berry as he peaked years ago. The guy's sole talent on the field is supposed to be his pass rush ability and in the SB we played against one of the crapiest pass-blocking lines in football and our lack of pass rush cost us the game.

Bert's a nice guy and I appreciate what he has done for this team and the community, but the bottom line was that he just didn't get his job done when it mattered most. I dont think anyone gets better at his age (other than Kurt ) so I would be putting more effort inot these young guys right now.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Here is the key phrase that everyone always misses:

And so he has stayed away from optional drills.

When he misses a day of something that he is actually required to be at I will worry.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Am I way off base or isn't there a new defense being installed right now? I know we've sort of run a version of the 3-4 in the past couple of years but aren't there going to be significant changes to how the OLB's line up and their responsibilities? And isn't that the kind of thing that a guy who's vying for playing time might want to pick up on as soon as possible?

We can play the veteran, not much to learn card all we want but I guarantee that Whiz and the coaching staff isn't thinking, "oh well he's a vet, no big deal."

He's a longtime vet whose role on this team will be to come in and rush the passer. Our scheme didn't change enough that he wont know how to do this without OTAs. Odds are he will be on IR by our Bye Week, so I would just rather invest the bulk of the reps and coaches attention to the young guys who are here in the twilight of their careers on one year deals.

I wasn't trying to say that OTAs aren't important, just that they are more important for a rook than a 35yr old and the progression of the rooks is far more important IMOthan the possibility of improvements in the old vet's game..

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And he won't be cut. There is zero replacement for him on the team and he is playing for slightly more than the veteran's minimum.

 

[joeshmo]

Here is the key phrase that everyone always misses:



When he misses a day of something that he is actually required to be at I will worry.

No one is missing it, its just that no one believes it, and all know that the term voluntary is voluntary in name only, coaches skirt around it when talking about it becuase of the rules, but trust that the Coaches and Players all know just how meaningless the term voluntary really is.

If they didnt think it was important, Wiz wouldnt give a quote to Somers that he is "dissappionted in Berrys decision", or this from Urbans blog about it, "Unfortunately, given the climate of all the voluntary work across the league, guys don’t blow off an entire month of OTAs unless there is a serious reason." or "it’s unusual for a Cardinal to skip every single one of the voluntary OTAs". Even the guys who like to work out on their own find the time to at least go to some of the so called "voluntary" practices. Heck even the most famous "i like to work out on my own" guy in the league Edge would show up so at least half of them. Its no coincidence that its only the ones in contract disputes that miss the whole thing.

Running a new D scheme with a new DC only compounds the importance. Especially when Berry severely lacks LB skills. And then comes this little jab at Berry from the teams own website from Urbans latest blog - "Berry comes back to a team that wants to use more of a 3-4 alignment, and ultimately, Berry isn’t a natural fit for linebacker." You may not worry but better believe Berry should start worrying when your own teams website is calling out your skills and sending you jabs for not showing up to so called "voluntary" workouts.

 

[82CardsGrad]

This isn't like Bert... Until proven otherwise, I will believe there is something up - a very valid reason, as to why he did not participate...

 

[Carddan]

And he won't be cut. There is zero replacement for him on the team and he is playing for slightly more than the veteran's minimum.

Chris, I am beginning to wonder if it is a possibility. Granted, there would be virtually no cap benefit but there is a question as to whether or not the team needs a replacement for a position which doesn't exist in a 3-4 scheme. The starting OLBs are Okeafor and Haggans, their backups are Hobson and the two rookies. If either rookie progresses fast enough to be listed as #2 behind Haggans, where is Berry? He doesn't fit on the D-Line in a 3-4. The only position for B-Train is a situational pass rusher or part of a 4-3 when the hybrid is being used.

 

[joeshmo]

And he won't be cut. There is zero replacement for him on the team and he is playing for slightly more than the veteran's minimum.

Veterans minimum would only count 450k against the cap. Its a rule that vet min contracts with players who have more then 10 vested years in the league that they wont count the full 850k they are getting paid against the cap. Its the NFLPA's way of getting work for vets by giving teams a break against the cap. But that isnt Berry, he makes 450k more salary wise and 850k more against the cap then he would if just given the veteran minimum.

Also why isnt there a replacement for him? Not going to go as far as saying there is yet, but I also wont go as very as saying their isnt a replacement for him without a doubt either. A 34 year old 5 sack pass rush specialist is very replaceable, and they already did by moving Okeafer to Berrys side of the field, the left side and replacing Okeafer with Haggans on the right. Then drafted not one but two 3-4 OLB's in the draft. Combine that with a very telling statement from Urbans blog calling Berry's skills as a LB not a natural fit, his replacement might be around the corner faster then we all might think.

 

[cgolden]

Running a new D scheme with a new DC only compounds the importance. Especially when Berry severely lacks LB skills. And then comes this little jab at Berry from the teams own website from Urbans latest blog - "Berry comes back to a team that wants to use more of a 3-4 alignment, and ultimately, Berry isn’t a natural fit for linebacker." You may not worry but better believe Berry should start worrying when your own teams website is calling out your skills and sending you jabs for not showing up to so called "voluntary" workouts.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Berry lead the team in sacks last year and the pass rush didn't get better in the off season. This is much ado about nothing.

 

[joeshmo]

This isn't like Bert... Until proven otherwise, I will believe there is something up - a very valid reason, as to why he did not participate...

Urban, Jurecki, and Somers. The trio of the most knowledgable Cards insiders saying the same thing. I have no reason but to believe its becuase of his contract. On the verge of retirement and admitting your skills on the decline make you do uncharacteristic things. If it were a good reason coach Wiz would know about it and meaning coach Wiz would not have said he is dissappointed in Berry yesterday if it were a good reason.

 

[joeshmo]

Berry lead the team in sacks last year and the pass rush didn't get better in the off season. This is much ado about nothing.

Is that really something to hand a hat on though. He had one more sack then 5 other players on the team that had 4. Only one more sack when he was the teams "pass rush" specialist playing mostly on passing downs allowed to pin his ears back and do one thing. He had more offsides penatlies then he did sacks. One year older and I am not exactly sure this guy has anything left to give after a subpar performance the year before.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Is that really something to hand a hat on though. He had one more sack then 5 other players on the team that had 4. Only one more sack when he was the teams "pass rush" specialist playing mostly on passing downs allowed to pin his ears back and do one thing. He had more offsides penatlies then he did sacks. One year older and I am not exactly sure this guy has anything left to give after a subpar performance the year before.

You aren't persuading me so stop trying.

I hate this place lately with all the drama.

 

[Redheart]

You aren't persuading me so stop trying.

I hate this place lately with all the drama.

LOL!

Mini-drama.

It's not like Dallas or anything....

 

[Chris_Sanders]

And what I mean is everything is so overreacted to one way or the other right now. Not sure if it is the off season lack of news or whatever.

We yank wildly from one emotion to the other. I don't give a **** about some reporter's blog. Certainly not enough to make assumptions about the team's roster based on his opinion.

When someone misses something that actually matters, that is news. When someone gets cut or signs, that is news. When someone gets hurt, that is news.

This is rumor and conjecture. Why get worked up over it?

 

[Shane]

And what I mean is everything is so overreacted to one way or the other right now. Not sure if it is the off season lack of news or whatever.

We yank wildly from one emotion to the other. I don't give a **** about some reporter's blog. Certainly not enough to make assumptions about the team's roster based on his opinion.

When someone misses something that actually matters, that is news. When someone gets cut or signs, that is news. When someone gets hurt, that is news.

This is rumor and conjecture. Why get worked up over it?

There is definitely conjecture. But I dont see how Berry not showing up and being displeased is a rumor?