Two things on the head coach

Redmark

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Why take the ball on the opening KO and have to throw and punt against the wind. Luckily it only costs us 10 points.

Can't you defer decision until second half? Let Buffalo fight the wind and maybe Cards are up 10 points after 1st quarter.

When you defer, you still have chance to set it up to have wind at your back in the 4th.

That decision was just plain dumb and obstinate. It's rare that a game is lost on the opening coin toss. This was one in my opinion.

--------------------------------------------

Second, wasting challenge and time out.

Moulds clearly made a great catch in bounds with control. Was this a gut call?
He certainly has plenty to go around. He looks like a walrus out there. Stupid waste of TO that might have helped had we had the wind in the 4th qtr. See above.
 

Russ Smith

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Redmark said:
Why take the ball on the opening KO and have to throw and punt against the wind. Luckily it only costs us 10 points.

Can't you defer decision until second half? Let Buffalo fight the wind and maybe Cards are up 10 points after 1st quarter.

When you defer, you still have chance to set it up to have wind at your back in the 4th.

That decision was just plain dumb and obstinate. It's rare that a game is lost on the opening coin toss. This was one in my opinion.

.

That's why I asked during the game yesterday if we were going to have the wind in the 4th quarter or not. I couldn't figure out why Green chose the ball over the wind because I was pretty sure that meant Buffalo would get it in the 4th quarter too. We had it 2nd and 3rd and didn't do much with it, but yeah I would think 99% of NFL coaches would take it first and fourth if given the choice.
 

Shane

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Agreed! Yet another mind boggling decision.
 

Tangodnzr

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NOPE !!!

On the coin toss:

The winner gets first choice of either kicking off/receiving or which end of the field to defend first. Whomever makes the first choice (usually to kickoff or receive) leaves the other the choice in the remaining area.

The Cards chose to receive. That left the Bills with the choice of which end to defend. So they chose to have the wind against them the 1st quarter and thus with them the 2nd.

The second half the Bills elected to receive and the Cards chose to play "with the wind" the 3rd quarter, leaving that to the Bills for the 4th.

I'd be willing to guess Green's logic the 2nd half was to try and get the lead back in the 3rd quarter then try to hold on to it for the 4th.

Obviously that all "blew" (pardon the pun) up in his face.

The Cards essentially killed themselves by not being able to take advantage of the wind and score that 3rd quarter.

Once the Bills scored to start the 4th, the game was essentially over.

I think that especially the 2nd half decision...to evidently "go for it" on offense the 3rd Quarter was a very risky gamble, under the circumstances.

Decisions like these make good fodder for us armchair QB's, and even though I personally question the decisions made, only hindsight can "prove" them one way or the other. I too, felt, even at the time, that those decisions did put the Cards in an uphill mode from the opening kickoff on.
 

Russ Smith

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Pariah said:
We had the wind at our backs in the 2nd and 4th, I thought.


Radio they said we had in the 3rd and I thought the 2nd but from what Tango posted it sounds like Buffalo had it in the 2nd?

Pasch said Buffalo took the wind in the first, and had it in the 4th.
 

ChandlerCard

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I thought I read somewhere that in the NFL the coin toss winner always receives. Did we really have that choice? And in any case, with the swirling winds the direction didn't matter that much. Case in point: 2 TD from 8 passes for Bledsoe.
 

Tangodnzr

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From the NFL gamebook:
1st Quarter
ARZ wins toss, elects to Receive, and BUF elects to defend the West goal.

3rd Quarter
BUF elects to Receive, and ARZ elects to defend the East goal.
 

ajcardfan

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Tangodnzr said:
From the NFL gamebook:
1st Quarter
ARZ wins toss, elects to Receive, and BUF elects to defend the West goal.

3rd Quarter
BUF elects to Receive, and ARZ elects to defend the East goal.

Buffalo could've chosen to kickoff in the second half, no?
 

Tangodnzr

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In regard to the Bills choosing to receive rather than choose which end to defend......

To me the basic rule that would generally apply under the conditions that were present is "when the wind is against you....try to keep possession of the ball, so that the opponents offense can't take advantage of the wind situation.

With the Bills being up by 10, and assuming they have a reasonable amount of faith in their defense (which they have good reason to BTW), and as such probably figured that once they choose to receive they probably expected the Cards to go against the wind the 3rd Quarter so as to have it the 4th, but even if the Cards chose the wind the 3rd Q (which they did), Buffalo still starts the second half with possession, and by keeping it, keeps the Card offense off the field.


No matter how you shake it...The Cards coaching staff got schooled IMO.
 

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From the rule book...

Coin Toss
1. The toss of coin will take place within three minutes of kickoff in center of field. The toss will be called by the visiting captain before the coin is flipped. The winner may choose one of two privileges and the loser gets the other:

(a) Receive or kick

(b) Goal his team will defend

2. Immediately prior to the start of the second half, the captains of both teams must inform the officials of their respective choices. The loser of the original coin toss gets first choice.

I personally do not believe the decision to receive determined the fate of the game. I also do not believe it was a "no brainer" to kick-off instead. I can't remember the last time I saw a game when the winner of the coin toss elected to kick off...Marty Mohrningwig (sp?) notwistanding...

I think the mismanagement of the final 2 minutes of the first half were the critical, critical time of the game. Josh totally bungled that and let way, way too much time run trying to get a play off. He was confused and really screwed up. I was really surprised there wasn't a QB change at halftime.

I do NOT put the blame of this loss totally on Josh. Special Teams and horrific play calling cost the Cards this game. That "gameplan" on offense was the worse I've seen since Buddy's second season, remember the "Atkins Diet Offense" where it was low "score" based? Josh played a role in the loss with his lack of leadership and sorely deficient pocket awareness but he was far from the biggest problem yesterday.

I would think that Miami will be the game that shows if Josh doesn't get some points up in the first half he may be sitting.
 
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Redmark

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TRW said:
I can't remember the last time I saw a game when the winner of the coin toss elected to kick off...Marty Mohrningwig (sp?) notwistanding...
QUOTE]

Thanks for the official rule recap. So there really is no option to defer the decision until the 2nd half. However if you win the toss and select the endzone chances are the other team will receive both kickoffs.

I might have been too harsh on Denny Green as he certainly has a point when he says they were moving the ball well on the ground but the penalties kept them in a hole. The other part of my premise was that we would have taken advantage of the wind and gotten a lead to defend. We only scored 7 points with the wind all day so now I guess it really didn't make any difference which end we started from. You're right! The coin toss decision was immaterial, it was the poor execution of special teams and penalities that were more important factors in this loss. Also the Bills have a darn good defense.
 

john h

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Tangodnzr said:
NOPE !!!

On the coin toss:

The winner gets first choice of either kicking off/receiving or which end of the field to defend first. Whomever makes the first choice (usually to kickoff or receive) leaves the other the choice in the remaining area.

The Cards chose to receive. That left the Bills with the choice of which end to defend. So they chose to have the wind against them the 1st quarter and thus with them the 2nd.

The second half the Bills elected to receive and the Cards chose to play "with the wind" the 3rd quarter, leaving that to the Bills for the 4th.

I'd be willing to guess Green's logic the 2nd half was to try and get the lead back in the 3rd quarter then try to hold on to it for the 4th.

Obviously that all "blew" (pardon the pun) up in his face.

The Cards essentially killed themselves by not being able to take advantage of the wind and score that 3rd quarter.

Once the Bills scored to start the 4th, the game was essentially over.

I think that especially the 2nd half decision...to evidently "go for it" on offense the 3rd Quarter was a very risky gamble, under the circumstances.

Decisions like these make good fodder for us armchair QB's, and even though I personally question the decisions made, only hindsight can "prove" them one way or the other. I too, felt, even at the time, that those decisions did put the Cards in an uphill mode from the opening kickoff on.

I wonder what the stats are for the team scoring first being the winner? My guess would be the team scoring first has a statistical advantage of winning the game. That being the case you would take the wind at your back and let the other team receive on the coin flip. In college this happens on a regular basis in bad weather.
 

Tangodnzr

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john h said:
I wonder what the stats are for the team scoring first being the winner? My guess would be the team scoring first has a statistical advantage of winning the game. That being the case you would take the wind at your back and let the other team receive on the coin flip. In college this happens on a regular basis in bad weather.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but I would venture to say that from a purely statistical standpoint the team scoring first in ANY game, wind or no wind, etc, would show at least some statistical advantage.

However, in reference to what you are talking about here, I think you are exactly right.

I said earlier that I would think the general rule would be.....control the ball with your offense, on the ground, as much as possible when against the wind. You're goal is not so much to necessaryily score, as to eat up the clock and keep the other teams offense off the field when the conditions generally favor them...such as here (wind at their back). The problem is..if you can't move the chains then you've allowed the very thing you were trying to avoid. And from there on out, you tend to be behind the 8-ball field postion-wise.

So that suggests a couple of things to me. It seems fairly obvious to me, that from Buffalo's standpoint, they were relatively satisfied that either/or/and their defense could protect the 10 point lead. But not only that, that by choosing to receive, they either felt (A) that their offense could move the ball on the Cards or (B) that if the Cards did do any scoring they would still have the 4th quarter to make up for it. (I think this is probably the most common decision).

The other thing is, the conditions really were bad enough that ANY score was crucial and ANY lead a big advantage. I thought it was a pretty high scoring game, actually, given those conditions.

It still all goes back to the start though, as everything else was a derivative of the first decision. As I ponder it more, I can see some reasoning why the Cards might not have wanted to put their defense out on the field with the wind with the other team, to begin the game. If they score early, it can be an uphill battle the rest of the day. By making the choice of taking the wind in the 2nd quarter, that would pretty much assure that they would be doing the above.
But here again, that hints of lack of confidence in your team. Playing not to lose rather than to win. Afraid that your defense ISN'T going to hold early, or not having confidence in your offense to be able to be able to come from behind in the 2nd Quarter.
To me, it was a weak call, in that respect.

And now that I've thought it about it more, I'm not so sure that hasn't touched on possibly one of the real underlying problems we've been seeing, especially with the play calling, and use of personnel.
This coaching staff, in general, (Pendergast excepted), seems to be coaching "scared". Overly afraid to take chance, overly afraid of problems that MIGHT develope, not really confident in their own coaching enough to instill any in the whole team, simply by the general flow of events resulting from that conservatism.

Granted I'm not advocating a wide open, high risk, game plan every game. Some conservatism is to be expected, but I think we're seeing the equally inappropriate counter extreme "playing scared" too often displayed from the coaching eschelons.
 

john h

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Redmark said:
TRW said:
I can't remember the last time I saw a game when the winner of the coin toss elected to kick off...Marty Mohrningwig (sp?) notwistanding...
QUOTE]

Thanks for the official rule recap. So there really is no option to defer the decision until the 2nd half. However if you win the toss and select the endzone chances are the other team will receive both kickoffs.

I might have been too harsh on Denny Green as he certainly has a point when he says they were moving the ball well on the ground but the penalties kept them in a hole. The other part of my premise was that we would have taken advantage of the wind and gotten a lead to defend. We only scored 7 points with the wind all day so now I guess it really didn't make any difference which end we started from. You're right! The coin toss decision was immaterial, it was the poor execution of special teams and penalities that were more important factors in this loss. Also the Bills have a darn good defense.

I have seen it numerous times in major college football Especially with severe weather conditions and sometimes when a team think they have a very strong defense.
 

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