Trading Rosen and trading down for Murray might be a great idea

[NJCardFan]

If I have to explain to you that Tom Brady is a generational talent? There is no helping you on the topic.

He's not. Has he had a generational career? Of course but as I said, he's a product of his system and, apparently, witchcraft. I still don't think he would have had the same career had he went somewhere else. And how did I arrive at this conclusion? Matt Cassell went 11-5 in this system and has been garbage everywhere else.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He's not. Has he had a generational career? Of course but as I said, he's a product of his system and, apparently, witchcraft. I still don't think he would have had the same career had he went somewhere else. And how did I arrive at this conclusion? Matt Cassell went 11-5 in this system and has been garbage everywhere else.

this is beyond stupid. His "system" has changed MULTIPLE times, as have ALL the players in it. Literally... like 5 times over. He's won Super Bowls with and without Gronk... just during the last two years. He's won with a completely different set of WRs 5 times.

And you arrived at that conclusion by Matt Cassel going 11-5? You do realize that the year before the Pats were 7 GAMES BETTER, right, going 18-1, a couple plays shy of 19-0 with Brady throwing for 50 TDs. Tell me, how many TDs did Cassel throw the next year? Tell me... how many playoff games did Cassel win the next year? Oh... right. None.

Do me this favor... describe to me what Bellicheck's "system" is that Brady has apparently played in his entire career? Then tell me about this witchcraft? When you literally have to defend your argument with magic BS, guess what... you're argument is BS.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Great idea.

Do we get to ditch Kyler Murray after one year if he doesn't look like an All-Pro after a year ?

Not with Kingsbury.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Crimson Warrior case study for you:

Go look up Geno Smith's time @ WV...Air Raid QB in a dynamic system, good open field runner, etc...then get back to me about KM

Look at Josh Rosen @ UCLA and the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[cardncubfan]

Enough already. Jeez. We don't need 5,000 threads debating Murray & Rosen.

 

[Hoodhero]

Crimson Warrior case study for you:

Go look up Geno Smith's time @ WV...Air Raid QB in a dynamic system, good open field runner, etc...then get back to me about KM

That's a name that brings back memories. Dont say Chan's name around him or he will get triggered. Think he averaged like 2 sacks a game since college against that wreck lol

 

[oaken1]

No he wouldn’t. He’d be #2 behind Haskins. Murray will be # 2 at best too.

crazy talk...neither haskins nor murray would have been drafted ahead of rosen...pass the pipe dude

 

[HeHasRosen]

crazy talk...neither haskins nor murray would have been drafted ahead of rosen...pass the pipe dude

This. Please stop the madness! Every single thread his been taken over by this crap. I don't even know which one im posting in anymore. If Rosen was in this draft he would be the consensus #1 pick and we would be taking him. Murray had a great team to work with. Rosen has had that.. Never. No midget. Bosa or trade down for picks. Those are the only two options right now

 

[jmt]

We ain’t drafting Murray, PUNTO.

 

[Matt L]

If Rosen was in this year's draft, He'd be the consensus #1 Pick.

what are you basing this off of?

 

[Matt L]

$8 million is 20% of the Cardinals available cap space, when you consider the other $5 million sitting there in dead space at QB and the other $4 million that Glennon counts against the cap and the price you'd pay for yet another high drafted rookie QB you are investing a lot in a position without any proof the position will be better than last year.

No matter who plays QB next year, it can't get worse.

 

[Matt L]

Enough already. Jeez. We don't need 5,000 threads debating Murray & Rosen.

why not? what else are we going to debate about? how much improvement we can expect from Chad Williams? will he make the leap from garbage fire to number 5 receiver on a decent team?

 

[oaken1]

why not? what else are we going to debate about? how much improvement we can expect from Chad Williams? will he make the leap from garbage fire to number 5 receiver on a decent team?

other draft picks? free agents maybe?

 

[Matt L]

other draft picks? free agents maybe?

Start some threads, Oak! i will chime in

 

[schutd]

I know you're sick of the Murray talk man.

But can you imagine how horrible it will be for us, if Murray lights it up in the NFL, goes on to be a superstar, while Josh busts out?

How we'll be cursing ourselves, since we had the easy decision to draft Murray sitting right in front of us, but we *ucked it up again, because we didn't have the balls to go for it?

This is such a leap in logic. You could literally think yourself into this corner every single year. For any team. Over any other highly touted prospect. I cant fathom how a successful organization would ever ever ever make a decision based on the possibilities of "But what if he does amazing for someone else????"

Make your call based on what your needs are, what you believe to be the best move for you, and never look back. You'll not always be right, but at least youre navigating the decision making process in some sort of a sensical manner.

 

[cardncubfan]

why not? what else are we going to debate about? how much improvement we can expect from Chad Williams? will he make the leap from garbage fire to number 5 receiver on a decent team?

We have 3 other threads to do this on. We don't need any more.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I am in favor of trading back a bit, picking up at least another R2, and taking Murray so both qbs can fight it out in this new system. Either one might bring us something in trade later on.

But why, you ask? My fear being the remembrance of how many great college qbs have failed due to trying to force them into a system that just wasn't right for them. It seems to happen too often, and I prefer the Cards cover their bet on the R & K combo.

We have to get the qb position rock solid before anything else, along with a OL being a tad 2nd.

 

[JeffGollin]

The scary part of this debate is that you could line up the 2 strategies side by side and they'd each have similar probabilities for success or failure.

Which means everything boils down to (1) what do we end up with if we fail? & (2) which QB outshines the other head to head?

Trade down, have Murray crater and wind up with no QB or EDGE star.

Keep the pick, have Rosen fail and wind up with no QB but draft a Pro Bowl EDGE guy (unless Bosa or another pick,fails too)

Or Keep Rosen and hit a homerun with the EDGE guy too.

Like I said earlier - any scenario can play itself out, but I think the odds favor our holding onto the pick and drafting a non-QB at #1.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I am in favor of trading back a bit, picking up at least another R2, and taking Murray so both qbs can fight it out in this new system. Either one might bring us something in trade later on.

But why, you ask? My fear being the remembrance of how many great college qbs have failed due to trying to force them into a system that just wasn't right for them. It seems to happen too often, and I prefer the Cards cover their bet on the R & K combo.

We have to get the qb position rock solid before anything else, along with a OL being a tad 2nd.

Logical, and well-worded. Thanks for posting sir.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Imagine how horrible it will be if we trade Rosen and he wins 5 Super Bowls while Murray is playing baseball in 2024?

Or the inverse could happen.

Rosen continues to look like a QB with tantalizing skills but an uncanny knack for putting easy dump off passes into the dirt while also making one to two throws a game that make your jaw drop.

Meanwhile Murray turns into Baker/Mahomes 2.0 and lights the NFL on fire leading the Cards to multiple titles, revolutionizing the position of QB and breaking the Curse of Pottsville in the process.

I have seen many QB's like Rosen continue to look like Rosen long term. Heck, we have had a few. Maybe less than 5 QB's this generation have bucked that trend. Not the top QB or even 2nd or 3rd QB in his draft, but became a superstar.

Kyler though...... Could be what some of us are talking about. Like Brees. Or like Wilson.

 

[Shane]

Or the inverse could happen.

Rosen continues to look like a QB with tantalizing skills but an uncanny knack for putting easy dump off passes into the dirt while also making one to two throws a game that make your jaw drop.

Meanwhile Murray turns into Baker/Mahomes 2.0 and lights the NFL on fire leading the Cards to multiple titles, revolutionizing the position of QB and breaking the Curse of Pottsville in the process.

I have seen

Kyler though...... Could be what some of us are talking about. Like Brees. Or like Wilson.

Dorf is much mire likely to bust out then Rosen. Lol

 

[Dr. Jones]

Dorf is much mire likely to bust out then Rosen. Lol

Agreed

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[NJCardFan]

this is beyond stupid. His "system" has changed MULTIPLE times, as have ALL the players in it. Literally... like 5 times over. He's won Super Bowls with and without Gronk... just during the last two years. He's won with a completely different set of WRs 5 times.

And you arrived at that conclusion by Matt Cassel going 11-5? You do realize that the year before the Pats were 7 GAMES BETTER, right, going 18-1, a couple plays shy of 19-0 with Brady throwing for 50 TDs. Tell me, how many TDs did Cassel throw the next year? Tell me... how many playoff games did Cassel win the next year? Oh... right. None.

Do me this favor... describe to me what Bellicheck's "system" is that Brady has apparently played in his entire career? Then tell me about this witchcraft? When you literally have to defend your argument with magic BS, guess what... you're argument is BS.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Here's something you don't want to hear: your opinion isn't the only one that matters. You're not that important, k? I'm entitled to my opinion and I don't give a red F if you agree with it or not. I really don't need your permission one way or the other. Don't like what I have to say, don't read it. Simple as that. And the witchcraft thing came from Brady, not me: https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/02/07/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen-superstitions-super-bowl-stones/

Oh, and it wasn't Cassell's fault the Pats missed the playoffs. He led his team to an 11 win season which included beating our Super Bowl bound team by 40 points. It isn't his fault the league is set up a certain way where teams that finished 9-7, 9-6-1, and even 8-8 made the playoffs but the Patriots, at 11 wins did not. 4 teams that year made the playoffs that had worse records than NE. Oh, and a backup QB leading his team to 11 wins hot off the bench is pretty fricken good. Name me another backup QB who was thrust into the starting job in the first quarter of week 1 and led his team to double digit wins.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

another caveat is we need a backup anyway and wouldn't paying the one who doesn't win starting job still be cheaper for the 4 or 5 yrs on their rookie contract than paying an experienced quality backup ? plus you will have 2 young qbs for when one gets knocked out for a season. seems like money in the bank, plus insurance on both, and doubling your chances you have your desired franchise qb.

so many ways to look at it. i can relate to what seems to be the majority opinion of the pro talking heads: if cards don't trade back and maximize their rare position at top of draft, using that pick to get just 1 player isn't going to turn their team around. Maybe they win a couple more games with him, but that isn't going to make them into a .500 team. They all seem to think we need a total rebuild and that takes acquiring as many picks that we can.

Now many believe it won't matter if keim is still making those picks. According to one pundit, Cardinals have one above-average starter and three athletes who haven't been healthy or effective to show for five years of drafts. No player from Keim's 2013 or 2014 drafts will be left in the organization. The 2015 draft will be down to Humphries and David Johnson. The 2016 draft is down to Robert Nkemdiche and Brandon Williams, both of whom have been wildly disappointing.

 

[NJCardFan]

another caveat is we need a backup anyway and wouldn't paying the one who doesn't win starting job still be cheaper for the 4 or 5 yrs on their rookie contract than paying an experienced quality backup ? plus you will have 2 young qbs for when one gets knocked out for a season. seems like money in the bank, plus insurance on both, and doubling your chances you have your desired franchise qb.

so many ways to look at it. i can relate to what seems to be the majority opinion of the pro talking heads: if cards don't trade back and maximize their rare position at top of draft, using that pick to get just 1 player isn't going to turn their team around. Maybe they win a couple more games with him, but that isn't going to make them into a .500 team. They all seem to think we need a total rebuild and that takes acquiring as many picks that we can.

Now many believe it won't matter if keim is still making those picks. According to one pundit, Cardinals have one above-average starter and three athletes who haven't been healthy or effective to show for five years of drafts. No player from Keim's 2013 or 2014 drafts will be left in the organization. The 2015 draft will be down to Humphries and David Johnson. The 2016 draft is down to Robert Nkemdiche and Brandon Williams, both of whom have been wildly disappointing.

Are you saying you're willing to use the #1 pick in the draft for a backup QB?