The thought of Matt Leinart....

[Southpaw]

Bingo. If Leinart wore orange and green, Wally would be all over his nuts just as he was Ken Dorsey's. The homerism and anti-USC jealousy of him and many of the other Leinart haters on this board is so transparent it's comical.

Where does that come from? I was never " all over Ken Dorsey's nuts " as you so graphically claim. Ken Dorsey was never anything but a grinder, surrounded by very good talent, and I never said anything different. Amazing how opinions are only tolerated when they agree with the consensus. Too bad the debates seem to disintegrate. It is supposed to be enjoyable.

Ken Dorsey was a 6th round pick , where he belonged, but has actually played more NFL games than Leinart so far. Ken Dorsey will probably never be a starting NFL QB. Maybe Matty boy will be a HOFer, but we might wait until he gets drafted. So, I think I will put this one in a time capsule for future reference.

 

[chickenhead]

People talked more about Manning than Leaf because outside of USC, the Pac-10 simply doesn't get the coverage the SEC does. And because Peyton is Archie Manning's son. Not saying Leaf should have gotten the same amount of attention, especially considering their pro careers.

 

[spikecop02]

Ken Dorsey was a runner up heisman two years in a row. he had a good running back like McGahe. It seems that Leinhert and Dorsey are alot a like.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Where does that come from? I was never " all over Ken Dorsey's nuts " as you so graphically claim. Ken Dorsey was never anything but a grinder, surrounded by very good talent, and I never said anything different. Amazing how opinions are only tolerated when they agree with the consensus. Too bad the debates seem to disintegrate. It is supposed to be enjoyable.

So you didn't say this about Dorsey?

Looks like his grasp of the mental aspects overcame his physical aspect. Sorry it had to be the Cards, but winning on the road and playing with an NFL Europe backfield and a lame duck coach counts for something. Right now I wish he was on the Big Red roster. I begged for that to happen when he was available. Maybe not a bonafide starter, but he is the reincarnation of Bernie Kosar.

I don't know when this debate stopped being enjoyable. Maybe it did for you when I pointed out the obvious that your dislike of Leinart has all to do with where he went to college as opposed to what he did in college.

 

[joeshmo]

So you didn't say this about Dorsey?

How was that quote you dug up, "all over his nuts"?

In your own digged up quote he said he may not be a bonafide starter. That is hardly all over his nuts, far from it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yes. He gets to hit areas that have been cleared out by drag patterns and go patterns. He has time to go through his progressions. That is where USC eats you up. Much unlike the Cardinals.


P.S Everyone gives USC the center of the field and short stuff, to protect against the big play. They have so many weapons. Only a huge pass rush team will beat them.

Leinart has more 40 yard pass plays than just about any QB I can think of and they're not all dumpoffs that Bush takes the distance. Yes there are teams that drop back and give USC the underneath but he's both willing and able to throw the ball downfield and has done so his whole career.

I don't think Leinart has the traditional gun for an arm that you'd like, and the elbow and shoulder surgeries are a legit concern, but he's as NFL ready as any QB I've seen in a while because he's so smart and played on such a high ranked team.

Nobody is saying the Pac 10 has great defenses, but Leinart has taken apart good defenses too. I'd love to get the guy but I expect we'll not get the first overall pick.

 

[Southpaw]

I don't know when this debate stopped being enjoyable. Maybe it did for you when I pointed out the obvious that your dislike of Leinart has all to do with where he went to college as opposed to what he did in college.

Painfully unaware that you earn a living as a mind reader. Imagine that I have said a dozen times that USC is a great team with very good players and haven't mentioned Miami once in this thread but somehow you are convinced, I hate USC and Matt.

Where did you get that QUOTE by me ? Give me a link please.

According to some. Matt is a lock, has the perfect skills to go directly to the H O Fame, will lead the Cards to the Promised land and hand out free skybox tickets to all ASFNers when he gets here. I'll wait until he gets somewhere before I give him accolades.

 

[Southpaw]

Leinart has more 40 yard pass plays than just about any QB I can think of and they're not all dumpoffs that Bush takes the distance. Yes there are teams that drop back and give USC the underneath but he's both willing and able to throw the ball downfield and has done so his whole career.

I don't think Leinart has the traditional gun for an arm that you'd like, and the elbow and shoulder surgeries are a legit concern, but he's as NFL ready as any QB I've seen in a while because he's so smart and played on such a high ranked team.

Nobody is saying the Pac 10 has great defenses, but Leinart has taken apart good defenses too. I'd love to get the guy but I expect we'll not get the first overall pick.

Something sticks in my mind. Why do you think he didn't come out last year?
If he has the desire to be the NFL QB that some say he is destined for, why would he choose to stay? May say something about him or his condition. I don't know, but that is a big question.

 

[Russ Smith]

Something sticks in my mind. Why do you think he didn't come out last year?
If he has the desire to be the NFL QB that some say he is destined for, why would he choose to stay? May say something about him or his condition. I don't know, but that is a big question.

I actually agree there. Leinart had offseason elbow surgery and the talk was if he'd come out he was concerned he would drop in the draft because of the elbow, he wouldn't have been able to workout for scouts right away. Also Leinart is just KING of the world at USC, the guy has graduated, he has essentially nothing to do but go to enough classes to retain eligibility(not exactly tough at USC), play in football games, and date whatever model he wants to. I do wonder is he too laid back, but his teammates all insiste Leinart is as competitive as anybody else on the team he just looks laid back.

To me it's simple, you do a battery of tests on his elbow and shoulder, if it passes and you have the pick, you take Leinart.

I've grown to love Leinart as a soph I thought he was a fraud, a system guy, but week after week he lights people up. About the only thing more exciting than him as a Cardinal would be if Joe Ayoob decided to transfer from Cal .

 

[Pariah]

If he has the desire to be the NFL QB that some say he is destined for, why would he choose to stay? May say something about him or his condition. I don't know, but that is a big question.

Or, he has loyalty and a commitment to winning and his team.

On one hand you bash people for trying to read your mind, and then project a negative on a situation that most people consider a positive.

 

[clif]

Something sticks in my mind. Why do you think he didn't come out last year?
If he has the desire to be the NFL QB that some say he is destined for, why would he choose to stay? May say something about him or his condition. I don't know, but that is a big question.

Maybe because he realized he had a legit shot to do something no other Qb has ever done.. and win 3 championships in a row.

 

[gusmahler]

Or, he has loyalty and a commitment to winning and his team.

That's basically what I've read. Leinart is king of USC. In fact, because of the state of LA sports, he is the King of LA. Had he left early, he would have been drafted first and would be killed behind SF's pourous O-line. Instead, he has a chance to become a real legend--leading a team to three consecutive national championships. He insured himself for millions of dollars, in case he got injured, so he's not stupid and he doesn't hate money.

Basically given the choice between becoming the first QB to lead a team to 3 national championships or just another #1 pick, he chose the first option.

 

[chickenhead]

As a friend of mine said recently: "It must be nice to be the Heisman-winning, two-time defending national champion, starting quarterback for the University of Southern California."

Why not take another year of that?

 

[Wild Card]

Something sticks in my mind. Why do you think he didn't come out last year?
If he has the desire to be the NFL QB that some say he is destined for, why would he choose to stay? May say something about him or his condition. I don't know, but that is a big question.

Wally:

I don't get your point. Peyton Manning came back for his senior year at Tennessee. For that matter, so did younger brother Eli at Ole Miss. Hard to find any college QB with greater desire--or more-destined--to be an NFL starter than those two.

WC

 

[Southpaw]

I actually agree there. Leinart had offseason elbow surgery and the talk was if he'd come out he was concerned he would drop in the draft because of the elbow, he wouldn't have been able to workout for scouts right away. Also Leinart is just KING of the world at USC, the guy has graduated, he has essentially nothing to do but go to enough classes to retain eligibility(not exactly tough at USC), play in football games, and date whatever model he wants to. I do wonder is he too laid back, but his teammates all insiste Leinart is as competitive as anybody else on the team he just looks laid back.

To me it's simple, you do a battery of tests on his elbow and shoulder, if it passes and you have the pick, you take Leinart.

I've grown to love Leinart as a soph I thought he was a fraud, a system guy, but week after week he lights people up. About the only thing more exciting than him as a Cardinal would be if Joe Ayoob decided to transfer from Cal .

Thanks for answering the question. I just figure that a guy who has an intense desire to play in the NFL, if healthy, would forego his 5th year(redshirt). If he is not healthy, then it makes sense. Ballroom Dancing 101
just doesn't seem like incentive to stay.

 

[SuperSpck]

I don't think education is the incentive.

 

[Mitch]

I don't think education is the incentive.

Especially when all he's taking this year is a dance class.

But, hey, the kid has outstanding vision, not only on the field, but in assembling his priorities.

What's very interesting, though...had he entered the draft...I think SF would have still taken Alex Smith, the better athlete...and Leinart would have probably been drafted by the Dolphins at #2 and most likely would be starting there right now.

Recently Leinart has been scrambling and relying on his feet better than he ever has. And while his passing rhythm is smooth as silk...his passes still tend to float at times, which he will rarely get away with in the pros.

Leinart is tough minded and real smart, as he epitomized in the Notre Dame game. He's got the intangibles...but one thing no one knows for sure about him...can he build a struggling team into a winner?

 

[spanky1]

Especially when all he's taking this year is a dance class.

But, hey, the kid has outstanding vision, not only on the field, but in assembling his priorities.

What's very interesting, though...had he entered the draft...I think SF would have still taken Alex Smith, the better athlete...and Leinart would have probably been drafted by the Dolphins at #2 and most likely would be starting there right now.

Recently Leinart has been scrambling and relying on his feet better than he ever has. And while his passing rhythm is smooth as silk...his passes still tend to float at times, which he will rarely get away with in the pros.

Leinart is tough minded and real smart, as he epitomized in the Notre Dame game. He's got the intangibles...but one thing no one knows for sure about him...can he build a struggling team into a winner?

Mitch,

Leinart's passes do float at times.....but Warner's do also, not that your point should be overlooked.

I've seen college QB's improve vis a vis "the spiral" pass once they get into the big leagues. I do believe the football is more conducive to spiral's in the big leagues versus college.....the ball is not as "fat"......but you might be in a position to comment on this more than I.

 

[Russ Smith]

Mitch,

Leinart's passes do float at times.....but Warner's do also, not that your point should be overlooked.

I've seen college QB's improve vis a vis "the spiral" pass once they get into the big leagues. I do believe the football is more conducive to spiral's in the big leagues versus college.....the ball is not as "fat"......but you might be in a position to comment on this more than I.

I have my own theories on that for what it's worth. IN college it seems most but not all teams use balls that have the white stripes around just below the points, in the NFL the ball is a solid color. I really think the "wobble" that you see on a lot of college games is a visual effect from the white stripes that would not look at all like a wobble with an NFL ball.

I also think many college coaches have this maddeningly annoying habit of designing plays that require their QB to roll to their weak side, Leinart to his right, Young to his left, it's hard to throw on the run that way so you get a lot of bad looking passes from that. Never understood that, one of the things I loved about Chow and love about Tedford is how rarely you see that in their games(although Ayoob rolls left a lot I think it's his choice not by design).

Leinart does NOT have a gun, there's no question on that. But I bet there's no way in the world SF takes Smith over Leinart unless his elbow had failed a physical. SF took Smith because they needed a QB and decided his ceiling was higher than Rodgers because he's a better athlete, Leinart doesn't have the size issues Rodgers did I think they'd have snapped him up if he'd been in the draft.

The interesting thing on Smith is there continues to be rumors that he is losing "face" with some of his teammates who think he's taking a bit too long to come back from a relatively minor knee injury. They think the team is babying him and allowing him to stay out a bit longer because he played so horribly as a starter they suspect he might not WANT to play right now. There's supposedly some whispers that he's not all that eager to play right now he wants to avoid the beating that Pickett and Dorsey are taking.

 

[Poorknight1]

I still think he'll be exposed in the pros. I DO like that fact that he's weathered some tough situations but not enough to change my opinion.

PK1

 

[TheCardFan]

I get to watch him constantly with Miami now in the ACC. He has started for 4 years. Is big 6'5" 235 pounds. Smart with the ball. Does not throw picks. Very good footwork. Very strong arm. He is called the most accurate arm in years. Runs in a true pro set offense. Just beat the hell out of FSU and Miami for 4 years. Right now , he is arguably the best QB in the ACC.

50% passing last year and 17 INTs vs 7 TD's...I would say that's not accurate and he throws INT's. 67% this year and 11 TD's vs 7 INT's...and you are comparing him to Big Ben, who never threw more Int's than TD's and put up 84 Td's in 38 games at 65%.

Leinart may be this years Eli Manning with all the headlines and reputation, but Whitehurst is this years Roethlisberger with the talent.

Whitehurst is more like the next Preston Parsons.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[Poorknight1]

Plus he kinda looks like a really young version of Will Ferrell...


PK1

 

[TheCardFan]

Plus he kinda looks like a really young version of Will Ferrell...
PK1

 

[Russ Smith]

Plus he kinda looks like a really young version of Will Ferrell...


PK1

He looks like Bob the Bachelor too.