The thought of Matt Leinart....

[earthsci]

agreed, but that wasn't the parameter he stated.

Yes...it was. I said highly regarded. So you understand what I mean, considered a first round pick as a QB. Eric Crouch was third rounder drafted as a receiver. Also, three good years in college. The only on that fit those parameters that you named was The Gambler.

 

[joeshmo]

Name one thing leinart has done to give anyone any fear that he will be a bust? What more can a kid do to prove he is worth the chance?

Just to name a few.

Weak Arm.
Shoulder issues.
Elbow Issues.

He is not without his warts. Not by a long shot and could be bust as much as any other QB. But he still worth the chance.

 

[Southpaw]

BS Wally. BS. I also added that they were highly regarded. And three good seasons. The only one on your list that was considered to be a high draft pick and was consistantly (not a one year wonder) good was Art Schlicter. The draft isn't perfect but you have to go pretty far back to back to find any QB that has been as near as successful as Leinart who busted.

BS Earth Science BS. 6 Heisman trophy winners of National Championship teams and now you somehow seperate Leinart from them as being so much better.

You conveniently dismissed Jason White and a whole bunch of other extrememly succesful college QBs, who you are looking at in hindsight. That is a huge advantage. You have allready seen them bust, with equal credentials. That was what I thought your original premise was. You would have to be clarevoyant to say Matty will be All pro for years to come. Let's wait for the real talent evaluators to make his case, before declaring him " the answer ".

 

[clif]

Just to name a few.

Weak Arm.
Shoulder issues.
Elbow Issues.

He is not without his warts. Not by a long shot and could be bust as much as any other QB. But he still worth the chance.

If those claims were true. Do you have evidence that he has a weak arm? Has he shown any signs of shoulder or elbow issues? Of course his arm could be shot, but his play suggests none of that.

 

[joeshmo]

You conveniently dismissed Jason White and a whole bunch of other extrememly succesful college QBs, who you are looking at in hindsight.

He is easily dismissed becuase he was never going to make it in the NFL anyways becuase of his injuries. Isnt he retired becuase of his injuries.

 

[earthsci]

BS Earth Science BS. 6 Heisman trophy winners of National Championship teams and now you somehow seperate Leinart from them as being so much better.

You conveniently dismissed Jason White and a whole bunch of other extrememly succesful college QBs, who you are looking at in hindsight. That is a huge advantage. You have allready seen them bust, with equal credentials. That was what I thought your original premise was. You would have to be clarevoyant to say Matty will be All pro for years to come. Let's wait for the real talent evaluators to make his case, before declaring him " the answer ".

None of those guys were projected first rounders. Let me make it more clear so, since you refuse to follow the parameters of what I asked, you can answer.

The QB needs to be:
1. A projected first rounder at QB
2. Three very successful years at a major university.

 

[clif]

BS Earth Science BS. 6 Heisman trophy winners of National Championship teams and now you somehow seperate Leinart from them as being so much better.

You conveniently dismissed Jason White and a whole bunch of other extrememly succesful college QBs, who you are looking at in hindsight. That is a huge advantage. You have allready seen them bust, with equal credentials. That was what I thought your original premise was. You would have to be clarevoyant to say Matty will be All pro for years to come. Let's wait for the real talent evaluators to make his case, before declaring him " the answer ".

I don't recall ANYONE claiming that Jason White would have success at the college level.

Are you implying that Matt Leinart ( who was the concensus #1 had he come out last year ) and Jason White are similiar for more than just their win totals? That would mean that Matt will go undrafted! buwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaahhahhhh!!!

 

[Southpaw]

Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace are the answer?

... and almost everyone said they were stupid picks when they came down. That was a good idea wrapped around poor evaluation. If DG is as good a personnel man,as most on here claim, he will make more sensible picks than Johnson and Pace. Look at the Patriots , for example, every year. Everyone seems to want Reggie Bush with the top 3 pick when it comes to RBs. Stop and take a look at Memphis RB D'angelo Williams. Auburns Kenny Irons, Minnesotas Maroney. They wouldn't take a top 3 pick to get, yet somehow a whole bunch of people get juiced up over every player on USC. I don't buy into it. USC has very good players and a great team. Let some other team fall in love with Leinart and Bush and make the trade down to use wisely.

 

[joeshmo]

If those claims were true. Do you have evidence that he has a weak arm? Has he shown any signs of shoulder or elbow issues? Of course his arm could be shot, but his play suggests none of that.

He has surgery on both his shoulder and elbow. And his Shoulder or Elbow, forget which has been hurting him this whole year. Ask Russ for the articles he will back me up.

As for the Weak Arm. Watch the kid play, listen to any of the scouts or draft gurus, read a scouting article. All will tell you he has a weak arm. Maybe its becuase of his arm problems, but either way he is not known for his strong arm.

He is liked so much becuase he is smart, semi mobile, accurate, and a leader. Arm Strength isnt one of those things.

 

[Pariah]

He is liked so much becuase he is smart, semi mobile, accurate, and a leader. Arm Strength isnt one of those things.

I haven't heard anyone call him "weak-armed," though. There's a difference between not having a cannon and having a weak arm.

You'll also hear this sentence over and over again this srping as the draft aproaches: "Matt Lienart can make all the throws you need to make in the NFL."

 

[Southpaw]

None of those guys were projected first rounders. Let me make it more clear so, since you refuse to follow the parameters of what I asked, you can answer.

The QB needs to be:
1. A projected first rounder at QB
2. Three very successful years at a major university.

You have made your undeniable case. Matt Leinart is Superman.

I'll take Charlie Whitehurst. Do you know anything about him?

 

[earthsci]

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/06quarterbacks.htm

 

[clif]

He has surgery on both his shoulder and elbow. And his Shoulder or Elbow, forget which has been hurting him this whole year. Ask Russ for the articles he will back me up.

As for the Weak Arm. Watch the kid play, listen to any of the scouts or draft gurus, read a scouting article. All will tell you he has a weak arm. Maybe its becuase of his arm problems, but either way he is not known for his strong arm.

He is liked so much becuase he is smart, semi mobile, accurate, and a leader. Arm Strength isnt one of those things.

I wasn't claiming that he does or doesn't have a strong arm. I was simply pointing out that his play on the field is more than adequate to suggest he is worth a shot. He has not had one game that I have seen where he was erratic with overthrows or underthrows, or being generally inaccurate.

I know we doesn't have a gun like alot of QB's, but I was thinking about this last week... At what point do you simply just forget about measurables and just go with production?

 

[joeshmo]

You'll also hear this sentence over and over again this srping as the draft aproaches: "Matt Lienart can make all the throws you need to make in the NFL."

I never said he couldnt. Maybe weak was to strong of a word. I should have said average.

I was just pointing out to Clif that the guy does have some concerns and isnt the perfect QB and savior like some are making him out to be.

 

[earthsci]

You have made your undeniable case. Matt Leinart is Superman.

I'll take Charlie Whitehurst. Do you know anything about him?

Great arm. I watched him in the Miami game and he looked good. He looked like crap in the Georgia Tech game. Those are the only two times that I've seen him.

 

[clif]

I haven't heard anyone call him "weak-armed," though. There's a difference between not having a cannon and having a weak arm.

You'll also hear this sentence over and over again this srping as the draft aproaches: "Matt Lienart can make all the throws you need to make in the NFL."

Exactly. I have watched more than my share of USC games and I can say I have never seen him just completely miss a receiver. In fact quite a few times Saturday the announcers were clamoring over how he was throwing ropes in the miffle of the field against Cal.

I would also argue that he is even more suited for this offense than a QB with a really strong arm. If you notice.. we don't throw deep that often. Our offense is based off rhythm and timing with short and intermediate passes.

 

[joeshmo]

At what point do you simply just forget about measurables and just go with production?

That would be a horrible idea.

Lets not forget this is college ball. Production or measurables doesnt always translate to the NFL, far from it. You have to use a combo of both.

 

[clif]

I never said he couldnt. Maybe weak was to strong of a word. I should have said average.

I was just pointing out to Clif that the guy does have some concerns and isnt the perfect QB and savior like some are making him out to be.

Again.. let me be clear. I don't think he is a saviour. I simply was trying to find out what people were seeing from his play that would suggest that he can't be successful. Will he? Won't he? Who knows, but there is no reason NOT to take the chance.

 

[Southpaw]

I never said he couldnt. Maybe weak was to strong of a word. I should have said average.

I was just pointing out to Clif that the guy does have some concerns and isnt the perfect QB and savior like some are making him out to be.

 

[arthurracoon]

At the same time if we stock up on offensive linemen they need someone worth blocking for.

True.

Well, if we can fix the OL this offseason through later draft picks (2nd and on) and FA, then go ahead and take Leinhart.

 

[clif]

That would be a horrible idea.

Lets not forget this is college ball. Production or measurables doesnt always translate to the NFL, far from it. You have to use a combo of both.

Absolutely You do.. ..that is my point. He has the measurables, but he ALSO has something alot of other players don't.. and that is what seperates him from these other Qb's.

 

[chickenhead]

I would also argue that he is even more suited for this offense than a QB with a really strong arm. If you notice.. we don't throw deep that often. Our offense is based off rhythm and timing with short and intermediate passes.

+1. Are we drafting a QB in the hopes that he can get the ball to BJ on a deep pattern? Let's remember where our talent is, and it's pretty clear that accuracy and YAC are more our speed.

 

[Southpaw]

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/06quarterbacks.htm

You just gave me a Draftnik Guru non prfessional opinion based draft evaluation pay service.

 

[D-Dogg]

I'm kind of hoping we draft third, Leinart and Bush off the board and we take D'Brickashaw. Maybe then we move Big to Guard and have a vastly improved OL.

 

[earthsci]

You just gave me a Draftnik Guru non prfessional opinion based draft evaluation pay service.

That actually wasn't for you. It was for clif.