The Tavon Austin vibe....

[red desert]

Look, red, you can smack down any questions about Austin that you want, but I'd like to hear an affirmative case for him that takes these question marks into account. Yes, his wiggle is impressive, but--especially for a wide receiver in the NFL--those kinds of spaces are few and far between in the NFL, even in the kicking game.

I totally agree with you that when Tavon Austin gets the ball with no one within four or five yards of him, he can be a special player. But that doesn't happen often in the NFL. That being the case, then you have to ask how he can perform in a down-by-down situation. Can he make the catch in traffic? I haven't seen it. Can he go over the middle? I have no idea.

If you believe that Tavon Austin has no parallel in the history of the NFL, then at least make that provision and admit that there's a tremendous risk to drafting a prospect very high that hasn't been shown to have a role that justifies that draft position.

You point to all these players that have busted on the OL and other positions (and I wasn't in favor of drafting Wendell Bryant in the first place, and it's come out that he had off-the-field problems that lead to his poor performance), but you haven't said that wide receivers are tremendously risky high in the draft, particularly wideouts who lack ideal size for the position.

There is perhaps no greater truism in the NFL draft process than the statement that wide receivers are tremendously risky propositions, particularly those drafted high, and particularly to those of a smaller stature. Absolute truth. I don't know that I've said otherwise. I simply believe his upside is worth the risk. That's all. And yes, I do believe Austin has shown he can catch the ball in traffic and go over the middle.

Again, when I see him I see greatness. And then I hear guys who do this for a living absolutely gush about the possibilities with this guy... tells me my eyes are not betraying me. Mayock, Cosell, Kiper, Baldinger, ALL gush about his potential and all, to a man, would not have a problem with him being taken in the top ten, imo.

I get we have other needs. I do. And the Cards do in fact have those needs. But I would still take him. Do I expect the Cards to take him? No. Not out of the question, but probably not. I think our pick will be Warmack. Which is fine. I would just rather have us pick Austin.

That's all I'm saying really. My fear is that either SF or St. Louis take him and he turns out to be an immediate star in the league.

 

[kerouac9]

There is perhaps no greater truism in the NFL draft process than the statement that wide receivers are tremendously risky propositions, particularly those drafted high, and particularly to those of a smaller stature. Absolute truth. I don't know that I've said otherwise. I simply believe his upside is worth the risk. That's all. And yes, I do believe Austin has shown he can catch the ball in traffic and go over the middle.

Again, when I see him I see greatness. And then I hear guys who do this for a living absolutely gush about the possibilities with this guy... tells me my eyes are not betraying me. Mayock, Cosell, Kiper, Baldinger, ALL gush about his potential and all, to a man, would not have a problem with him being taken in the top ten, imo.

I get we have other needs. I do. And the Cards do in fact have those needs. But I would still take him. Do I expect the Cards to take him? No. Not out of the question, but probably not. I think our pick will be Warmack. Which is fine. I would just rather have us pick Austin.

That's all I'm saying really. My fear is that either SF or St. Louis take him and he turns out to be an immediate star in the league.

Well, I couldn't find more than a tweet from Cosell to back up that opinion, and Rotoworld didn't see raves from Mayock or Kiper that establish him as a Top 10 pick.

If you're looking for an honest, dissenting opinion on Austin as a Top 10-type pick, see here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2012/futures-west-virginia-wr-tavon-austin

I think there are two different types of small receivers playing in the NFL. The first is the dynamic style of player that can deliver effective performances from either the slot or the perimeter. I’m defining "small" as under 5-foot-10. This means Harvin, Cobb, and Cruz don’t apply to this analysis and only Smith fits the bill as a dynamic small receiver -– and he was a third-round pick from Utah who mostly returned kicks as a rookie. Smith was considered a surprise star at the receiver position. Austin will have to demonstrate the leaping ability, physical skill in tight coverage, and the long speed to warrant the first-round selection that Smith deserved in hindsight.

 

[red desert]

Well, I couldn't find more than a tweet from Cosell to back up that opinion, and Rotoworld didn't see raves from Mayock or Kiper that establish him as a Top 10 pick.

If you're looking for an honest, dissenting opinion on Austin as a Top 10-type pick, see here: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2012/futures-west-virginia-wr-tavon-austin

There is one from Cosell on this thread. Here it is AGAIN.

Please take the time to listen in on Cosell gushing, Bucky Brooks gushing, and Daniel Jeremiah tweet gushing.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ginia-wr-tavon-austin-should-be-a-top-10-pick

More Cosell and Bucky Brooks on Austin...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...ke-mayock-tavon-austin-is-a-matchup-nightmare


Also from this thread, Kiper gushing.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news...n-Austin/99100301-306e-44ad-b06e-dfafe9be6077

Mayock gushing.

http://wap.nfl.com/news/0ap1000000144547/tavon-austin-a-matchup-nightmare-mayock-says/


McShay gushing.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9126858

Jaworski gushing.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/51190380/ns/sports-player_news/

And most importantly, MITCH is gushing!

It's a bonafide gush-a-thon!!

 

[CtCardinals78]

Ill be ripping mad if this organization selects a player other than an online man or OLB with the 7th pick.

 

[kerouac9]

There is one from Cosell on this thread. Here it is AGAIN.

Please take the time to listen in on Cosell gushing, Bucky Brooks gushing, and Daniel Jeremiah tweet gushing.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ginia-wr-tavon-austin-should-be-a-top-10-pick

More Cosell and Bucky Brooks on Austin...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...ke-mayock-tavon-austin-is-a-matchup-nightmare


Also from this thread, Kiper gushing.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news...n-Austin/99100301-306e-44ad-b06e-dfafe9be6077

Mayock gushing.

http://wap.nfl.com/news/0ap1000000144547/tavon-austin-a-matchup-nightmare-mayock-says/


McShay gushing.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9126858

Jaworski gushing.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/51190380/ns/sports-player_news/

And most importantly, MITCH is gushing!

It's a bonafide gush-a-thon!!

LOL. I could care less whether Mitch is gushing. He loved DeSean Jackson, as well. And while Jackson is a good player, he's not even the best wideout on his own team.

As for the rest, you recycle the same four quotes about six times there. I'm not sure what a bunch of guys without NFL experience (Kiper, Mayock, McShay, Cosell) is supposed to mean to me. The proof is in the pudding, and the risk/reward for Austin isn't going to be enough to make him a Top 10 pick, in all likelihood.

 

[red desert]

LOL. I could care less whether Mitch is gushing. He loved DeSean Jackson, as well. And while Jackson is a good player, he's not even the best wideout on his own team.

As for the rest, you recycle the same four quotes about six times there. I'm not sure what a bunch of guys without NFL experience (Kiper, Mayock, McShay, Cosell) is supposed to mean to me. The proof is in the pudding, and the risk/reward for Austin isn't going to be enough to make him a Top 10 pick, in all likelihood.

So you didn't bother to actually listen to ALL the links I posted, which were posted as per your request. If you had you wouldn't be making statements like four quotes recycled. Or conveniently neglect to mention Jaworski in your response of non NFL experience.

Whatever.

Carry on, mate.

 

[Shane]

This guy will be on the board when we draft and we wont touch and thankfully so!

 

[Denny Green Fan]

This guy will be on the board when we draft and we wont touch and thankfully so!

If we drafted him something is getting broke in my house

 

[Buckybird]

If we drafted him something is getting broke in my house

It's a better gamble than drafting a guy named Levi Brown
Can we get a do over? Lol

 

[Shane]

It's a better gamble than drafting a guy named Levi Brown
Can we get a do over? Lol

I could care less about LB. Ive been to and witnessed a SB that he actually played well in since he's been a cardinal. Me and LB are good!

 

[Buckybird]

I could care less about LB. Ive been to and witnessed a SB that he actually played well in since he's been a cardinal. Me and LB are good!

Yeah when he played RT.
Now he just watches guys run around him & crushing our QBs, I'd be fine if he played RT. he's a terrible LT & you know it.

 

[Buckybird]

I just thought of the ultimate Austin comparison...Anthony "AC" Carter.

 

[JeffGollin]

I just thought of the ultimate Austin comparison...Anthony "AC" Carter.

Austin reminds me of Buddy Young.

(Buddy was something like 5' 2". He in turn reminds me of a scatback on my youth football team named Jimmy Chapman - aka "The Helmet" - because he looked like a helmet with 2 legs sticking out of it).

 

[TJ]

I must say, there are an awful lot of threads about a player who the coaches aren't even considering drafting.

 

[Mitch]

I must say, there are an awful lot of threads about a player who the coaches aren't even considering drafting.

It wouldn't surprise me if every team in the draft is considering him.

BA has talked about adding what he calls a "difference maker" at #7.

I just found it kind of curious that minutes after the Carson Palmer press conference, Steve Keim was on Doug and Wolf saying that he had just been watching tapes of Tavon Austin and made the comment: 'he's so fast you can't catch him in a phone booth."

I also think it's interesting that at the Combine, where TA put on quite a show, BA said he was focusing on WRs and RBs.

We can't blame BA for the Floyd pick---and while the hope is that Floyd will turn out to be a very good player for us, BA prefers smaller, faster WRs---ones who can shake free quicker and can gather chunk yards on RACs.

In fact, all of the 1,000 yard WRs he's coached as an OC or interim HC have been 6-0 or smaller:

5-10 Santonio Holmes
6-0 Hines Ward
6-0 Mike Wallace
5-10 Antonio Brown
6-0 Reggie Wayne
5-10 T.Y. Hilton (861 yds/17.2/7 tds---as a rookie).

All of these WRs were used repeatedly by BA in the slot, in addition to wide, depending on the matchups.

 

[TJ]

It wouldn't surprise me if every team in the draft is considering him.

BA has talked about adding what he calls a "difference maker" at #7.

I just found it kind of curious that minutes after the Carson Palmer press conference, Steve Keim was on Doug and Wolf saying that he had just been watching tapes of Tavon Austin and made the comment: 'he's so fast you can't catch him in a phone booth."

I also think it's interesting that at the Combine, where TA put on quite a show, BA said he was focusing on WRs and RBs.

We can't blame BA for the Floyd pick---and while the hope is that Floyd will turn out to be a very good player for us, BA prefers smaller, faster WRs---ones who can shake free quicker and can gather chunk yards on RACs.

In fact, all of the 1,000 yard WRs he's coached as an OC or interim HC have been 6-0 or smaller:

5-10 Santonio Holmes
6-0 Hines Ward
6-0 Mike Wallace
5-10 Antonio Brown
6-0 Reggie Wayne
5-10 T.Y. Hilton (861 yds/17.2/7 tds---as a rookie).

All of these WRs were used repeatedly by BA in the slot, in addition to wide, depending on the matchups.

And Andre Roberts pretty much fits the mold you referenced. 5'11", great slot guy, caught for 756 yards with the suspect QB production last season.

Keim has also indicated he is going to beef up the offensive line in the draft, which is why none has been signed as of yet. All arrows point to taking a lineman and maybe a linebacker (and they should) with the #7.

Picking a wideout of any kind would mean another season of neglecting to address the much maligned offensive line. How is Palmer going to throw to Austin (or anyone, for that matter) while lying in his back?

Fun fact - the Cardinals have not had a Pro Bowl offensive lineman since 1996 (Lomas Brown). They have, however, had four different wideouts go since 1997 (Moore, Boston, Boldin, Fitzgerald [still on the roster]). One thing this team has never been deprived of is having outstanding wideouts. What it hasn't had in God knows how long is a dominating lineman.

Yea......we kinda need to finally address the issue up front first before we can explore adding a wideout, or as I like to say, "bringing sand to the beach."

 

[Phrazbit]

Even Rod Tidwell was bigger than 5'8"... This guy is going to be a return specialist and bubble screen player. Trying to play a WO that small every down would be laughable. Against press coverage and against guys that weigh 30 points more, are 5-6 inches taller and just as fast... the idea that this dude is going to be a game breaker is crazy.

As K9 has said repeatedly, in the NFL its very rare that a player ends up with big space to make initial moves outside of punt returns. Unless he gets that space the size and speed of NFL players will render him impotent.

There is no justification for drafting a situational player with a high pick, especially at receiver, making him not only situational but dependent on the QB.

 

[Buckybird]

Even Rod Tidwell was bigger than 5'8"... This guy is going to be a return specialist and bubble screen player. Trying to play a WO that small every down would be laughable. Against press coverage and against guys that weigh 30 points more, are 5-6 inches taller and just as fast... the idea that this dude is going to be a game breaker is crazy.

As K9 has said repeatedly, in the NFL its very rare that a player ends up with big space to make initial moves outside of punt returns. Unless he gets that space the size and speed of NFL players will render him impotent.

There is no justification for drafting a situational player with a high pick, especially at receiver, making him not only situational but dependent on the QB.

Ummmm Wes Welker cough cough...tell me how people are stopping him? When Austin is put in the slot, he will using be off the LOS or in motion which limits the effectiveness of a DB to control him getting into his routes. plus his speed & elusiveness helps also.

I really think you naysayers are selling this kid short on what he can & will do as an NFL player.

 

[TJ]

Ummmm Wes Welker cough cough...tell me how people are stopping him? When Austin is put in the slot, he will using be off the LOS or in motion which limits the effectiveness of a DB to control him getting into his routes. plus his speed & elusiveness helps also.

I really think you naysayers are selling this kid short on what he can & will do as an NFL player.

I don't think anyone is selling him short. Rather, we are prioritizing our needs in the draft. A guy like Austin would be a luxury for this team had it had a stable o-line. WR is probably the last position that needs to be addressed in the first two days of the draft. We have a golden opportunity to take a top-flight lineman at 7. I don't want to blow that by taking someone who quite frankly isn't going to help this team.

 

[red desert]

Ummmm Wes Welker cough cough...tell me how people are stopping him? When Austin is put in the slot, he will using be off the LOS or in motion which limits the effectiveness of a DB to control him getting into his routes. plus his speed & elusiveness helps also.

I really think you naysayers are selling this kid short on what he can & will do as an NFL player.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/22092/

 

[kerouac9]

Ummmm Wes Welker cough cough...tell me how people are stopping him? When Austin is put in the slot, he will using be off the LOS or in motion which limits the effectiveness of a DB to control him getting into his routes. plus his speed & elusiveness helps also.

I really think you naysayers are selling this kid short on what he can & will do as an NFL player.

Wes Welker gets stopped ALL THE TIME. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

DVOA is just 5.4%--21st in the NFL. He doesn't create big plays--5 of his 6 TDs last year were from inside the red zone. The reason that Welker seems so impressive in traditional metrics is that he gets a ton of chances. He had 175 targets last year--20 more than Larry Fitzgerald. 25 more than Roddy White.

You don't spend the 7th pick in the NFL draft on a guy who's production is going to be 85% replaceable with Ryan Swope.

 

[Duckjake]

Can Tavon Austin be a system fit? Completely unknown, since Austin got most of his touches on bubble screens, draws, and short passes that he turned into long ones.
___________

_______

Well maybe not so unknown?

Bruce Arians:

"I like new ideas. Randy Fichtner came in from the University of Memphis and he had all these college screens. I just couldn't wait to put all that stuff in. So we veered off into a different direction. Similar in some (ways). There are still core values that are the same. Some things are called the same, but other things are totally different."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...arians-my-offense-differs-from-ken-whisenhunt

 

[john h]

I am starting to believe he really will be gone when we pick at number 7. I know most of you don't care and another many of you would be happy to take that temptation of the table before we pick.

I, on the other hand, echoing Mitch's sentiments, believe this should be our pick, if he's there. Can't help but think who Harbaugh and Carroll would most NOT like us to pick.... Austin, IMO. I know He really would make our offense electric. Mayock among others have stated the exact same thing about this kid, he would be a matchup nighmare for defensive coordinators. Baldinger's and Cosell's favorite player in the draft. His size not much of a concern for them. In anticipation of one counterpoint, I respond with our O-line being in better shape than most think.


http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...iefs-geno-smith-jaguars?modid=recommended_4_5

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ginia-wr-tavon-austin-should-be-a-top-10-pick

I read a lot of good things about Tavon but from what I read he is only 5'8" and 170 lb. Are the odds very good he will make it in the NFL? One big hit from one those monster linebackers could end his career. There have been some great litttle guys but I sure would not gamble my #7 on any player that small. I wish him luck because he will need that to go along with his speed.

 

[red desert]

I read a lot of good things about Tavon but from what I read he is only 5'8" and 170 lb. Are the odds very good he will make it in the NFL? One big hit from one those monster linebackers could end his career. There have been some great litttle guys but I sure would not gamble my #7 on any player that small. I wish him luck because he will need that to go along with his speed.

Certainly this is true. But doesn't every offensive player run that risk every time they touch the ball? And TA is no shrinking violet. He is tough. Built tough as well. Have you seen pics of the guy? He sports some guns. He is a stout 5'8"

 

[Jetstream Green]

Guy was electric in his system in college but I have vibes, bad vibes about Tavon