The 2018-2019 Around the NBA thread

[Mainstreet]

I was high on Luka coming out but I didn’t see this type of production right away. He’s nearly averaging 20/7/5 and shooting better from 3 than he did in Europe. Kid’s competitive spirit can’t be measured.

I didn't expect Luka to be this good early either but I thought he would ahead of Ayton in his development so I'm not shocked.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Euroleague play is much more congested going to the hoop and while the NBA is more athletic it is also more spread out. On top of that a lot of players in the USA and North America in general tend to rely more on their athleticism earlier in their career rather than subtle fakes and hesitations. Luka is already a master of those things and it is a big part of why he gets where he wants to go as well as draws a lot of fouls.

Another factor to consider is that the Euroleague doesn't have the new "freedom of movement" (or whatever they are called) rules in the NBA which make it easier to get where you want to go around the court and easier to draw fouls. We have seen in the games where the refs have allowed us to get kind of physical with him he struggled, but when they call the ticky tack stuff than his game opens up.

The NBA has overcompensated for the thug ball of the 1990's. They have gotten to the point where they constantly call fouls that never happen and create an atmosphere that encourages players to throw their bodies around in silly flopping. They have put the outcomes of the games arbitrarily in the hands of referees that cannot seem to call any game consistently and certainly there is no consistency from game to game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I didn't expect Luka to be this good early either but I thought he would ahead of Ayton in his development so I'm not shocked.

Luka is slightly better than I expected, and Ayton has regressed a little in recent weeks. It is what it is.

 

[SirStefan32]

I chalk up the terrible couple of games here and there to Ayton being a rookie. All things considered, he's been quite consistent. I think Doncic is more immune to burnout due to him having played year-around in Europe. Spanish League, Euro League, Nation Team commitment (Euro Basket). I thin k the college kids in general have no concept of a long season, and they end up being burned out and hitting that rookie wall quicker than someone who's basically played for ten months out of the year the previous season. Doncic was severely burned out in 2018 around the draft time. His shooting suffered more than anything else. In my mind, it raised questions about how good of a shooter he actually was.

As frustrating as it is to watch Ayton put on his best Dragan Bender impersonation, it's normal for a rookie to have a few games like that.

 

[Mainstreet]

I chalk up the terrible couple of games here and there to Ayton being a rookie. All things considered, he's been quite consistent. I think Doncic is more immune to burnout due to him having played year-around in Europe. Spanish League, Euro League, Nation Team commitment (Euro Basket). I thin k the college kids in general have no concept of a long season, and they end up being burned out and hitting that rookie wall quicker than someone who's basically played for ten months out of the year the previous season. Doncic was severely burned out in 2018 around the draft time. His shooting suffered more than anything else. In my mind, it raised questions about how good of a shooter he actually was.

As frustrating as it is to watch Ayton put on his best Dragan Bender impersonation, it's normal for a rookie to have a few games like that.

Ayton is way better than Bender though at any speed.

 

[SirStefan32]

Ayton is way better than Bender though at any speed.

That's why I called it his best impersonation. Nobody in this world can truly match Bender.

 

[sunsfan88]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Not much of a bold prediction at this point but I think Doncic becomes a bonafide top 5 player in the league within the next two seasons.

 

[GatorAZ]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Not much of a bold prediction at this point but I think Doncic becomes a bonafide top 5 player in the league within the next two seasons.

Paul George is much better than Luka and he’s not even top-10. I’m a huge Luka guy but he’s getting overhyped.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, I figured he would be competent initially and then good in his second year. I did not expect this until his third year.

same here!

seriously... what we're seeing right now is the absolute CEILING I thought he could climb to. Doing what he's doing as a rookie, doing it AT CRUNCH TIME, doing it elevating what's been a terrible team for years... it's all astounding. I don't know what the ceiling is for him at this point, but it might end of being one of the best in the league.

dude's nails.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Not much of a bold prediction at this point but I think Doncic becomes a bonafide top 5 player in the league within the next two seasons.

Uh . . . WHAT?!?

That was just filthy!

 

[sunsfan88]

Uh . . . WHAT?!?

That was just filthy!

Especially since two players involved in that play are Klay and Green who are arguably two of the top 5 defenders in the league.

 

[sunsfan88]

Paul George is much better than Luka and he’s not even top-10. I’m a huge Luka guy but he’s getting overhyped.

Yeah Paul George right now is. Doncic will surpass him (and plenty others) within the next 2 seasons imo.

Doncic also has shown better ball handling ability and court vision his rookie season than George has at any point of his career.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah Paul George right now is. Doncic will surpass him (and plenty others) within the next 2 seasons imo.

Doncic also has shown better ball handling ability and court vision his rookie season than George has at any point of his career.

I think you may be overlooking defense. I have no doubt Doncic will surpass him on the offensive end (might do that by next season), but PG is an elite defensive player and is miles ahead of Doncic on that end.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think you may be overlooking defense. I have no doubt Doncic will surpass him on the offensive end (might do that by next season), but PG is an elite defensive player and is miles ahead of Doncic on that end.

Yeah but their difference offensively will make up for Doncic's lack of defense imo. And Luka is actually not bad on that end, he's better than he was advertised but you're right George is an elite defender and Luka likely won't ever reach that status.

Still as an overall player, I stand by what I said.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeah, Luka has a ceiling due to defense. Note that I actually don't think he is a bad defender, but almost all "top-whatever number we pick" are actually good on both ends of the floor. This includes James, Duran, Leonard, Davis, Giannis, etc.
That said, there are guys like Curry and Harden who are just so good on offense that their defense is overlooked. Again, Doncic is not as bad as those two, so I am not making a comparison here.

There are so many great players in the league, so I am not sure if I'd predict top-five or top-ten, or whatever else for Luka, but he sure as hell looks like a top-30 in his rookie season. 20 points, 6.7 rebounds, five assists, 1.1 steals, 37% from three...in his rookie season while clearly being the team's best player and being guarded by the best defender night in and night out. Again, I don't know if he'll be top-five, or top-ten, or top-whatever, but I am not putting a ceiling on this kid.

In January, he is at 23.3 points, 7.9 rebounds, and 5.1 assists, with 37% from three. In November, he was at 17.7, 6.7, and 4.2 on the same three point shooting percentage. That's 5.6 points, 2.2 rebounds, and almost one assist improvement from November to January. Yeah, definitely not putting a ceiling on him.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yeah, Luka has a ceiling due to defense. Note that I actually don't think he is a bad defender, but almost all "top-whatever number we pick" are actually good on both ends of the floor. This includes James, Duran, Leonard, Davis, Giannis, etc.
That said, there are guys like Curry and Harden who are just so good on offense that their defense is overlooked. Again, Doncic is not as bad as those two, so I am not making a comparison here.

There are so many great players in the league, so I am not sure if I'd predict top-five or top-ten, or whatever else for Luka, but he sure as hell looks like a top-30 in his rookie season. 20 points, 6.7 rebounds, five assists, 1.1 steals, 37% from three...in his rookie season while clearly being the team's best player and being guarded by the best defender night in and night out. Again, I don't know if he'll be top-five, or top-ten, or top-whatever, but I am not putting a ceiling on this kid.

In January, he is at 23.3 points, 7.9 rebounds, and 5.1 assists, with 37% from three. In November, he was at 17.7, 6.7, and 4.2 on the same three point shooting percentage. That's 5.6 points, 2.2 rebounds, and almost one assist improvement from November to January. Yeah, definitely not putting a ceiling on him.

Are you contradicting yourself here or did I just misread the post?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Are you contradicting yourself here or did I just misread the post?

Not really. I think he's just acknowledging that Luka is primarily an offensive weapon. Personally I think you can be the best player in the game by being the best offensive player. Rarely can a perimeter player excel at offense and still have the energy left to excel at D so for me, Luka's mediocre defense is not much of an issue.

 

[SirStefan32]

Are you contradicting yourself here or did I just misread the post?

He has a ceiling of some sort due to his lack of athleticism, especially on defense. That said, I don't know where that ceiling is. Top-three? Top-five? Top-ten? That part I do not know, and I am not going to underestimate him.

I don't think it's contradictory, though I probably should have said "limitations" in my first statement. Initially, my mind went to the great two-way players, but as I pointed out in my post, there are exceptions such as Curry and Harden, so I don't think I can say he's not gonna be top-five, or top-ten, or even top-three.

 

[SirStefan32]

Not really. I think he's just acknowledging that Luka is primarily an offensive weapon. Personally I think you can be the best player in the game by being the best offensive player. Rarely can a perimeter player excel at offense and still have the energy left to excel at D so for me, Luka's mediocre defense is not much of an issue.

That's actually a really good description of Luka's defense. It's not good, but it really isn't terrible. He is definitely not a liability on defense, though nobody will mistake him for a defensive stopper.

 

[sunsfan88]

He has a ceiling of some sort due to his lack of athleticism, especially on defense. That said, I don't know where that ceiling is. Top-three? Top-five? Top-ten? That part I do not know, and I am not going to underestimate him.

I don't think it's contradictory, though I probably should have said "limitations" in my first statement. Initially, my mind went to the great two-way players, but as I pointed out in my post, there are exceptions such as Curry and Harden, so I don't think I can say he's not gonna be top-five, or top-ten, or even top-three.

Gotcha. I share a similar sentiment but I can see him being on the top tier of super elite players just because of all the things he’s already able to do and his ability to make his team better. He’s already able to do many things at the age of 19 that so many guys couldn’t at all even well in their early 20s or so. Guys like Paul George who was mentioned earlier were rather mediocre their rookie season. Doncic just has to further master the things that he can already do, he doesn’t need to learn anything new and that’s extremely impressive. There are many that think he will be the best player in the league after LeBron’s retirement and that wouldn’t surprise me at all.

The athleticism thing can hold him back some as he doesn’t have LeBron or Giannis type athleticism but he’s skilled enough to make up for it imo.

I used to say it about Booker because he also lacks athleticism but I don’t see the promise or potential in his skillset to which he can be in the upper tier of elite players in the league. He has the potential to be a very good player still but that’s about what his ceiling is imo.

 

[sunsfan88]

That's actually a really good description of Luka's defense. It's not good, but it really isn't terrible. He is definitely not a liability on defense, though nobody will mistake him for a defensive stopper.

I remember in the pre draft process many who were against drafting Doncic in another Suns forum firmly said Doncic is much worse than Booker defensively and used that as the reason to pass on him. One poster from here also said something similar. I always thought that was odd because he didn’t show anything in the, granted limited, games of his I saw in Europe.

He’s already better defensively than Booker has ever been in any of Book’s years in the league. But that itself isn’t much of an accomplishment because Booker is one of the worst 5 defensive players at his position. Still, I’d say Luka’s close to almost average on that end.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How does a player go 1 for 17 from the 3 point line and still score 38 points? And if you didn't know who did that would anyone guess someone other than Harden?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

How does a player go 1 for 17 from the 3 point line and still score 38 points? And if you didn't know who did that would anyone guess someone other than Harden?

I could maybe guess Curry, but it would be hard to imagine him not making more than 1 or taking 17 if his shot was off. It really looks bad when you consider it was a close loss for his team as well.

 

[sunsfan88]

There’s only a handful of players who have green light from their coaches to keep shooting if their shot is completely off like that. Harden’s one, Curry and Klay would be two others...Lillard, George, Durant, Westbrook, Kemba and probably very few others.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There’s only a handful of players who have green light from their coaches to keep shooting if their shot is completely off like that. Harden’s one, Curry and Klay would be two others...Lillard, George, Durant, Westbrook, Kemba and probably very few others.

Sure but in this day and age for a perimeter player to go 1 for 17 from 3 and still manage to score 38 points is kind of impressive and pretty damned rare I'd say.