Suns updates and discussion for the 2022-23 season

Covert Rain

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i Don’t what you are expecting to get, look at his numbers this season. 2 picks is reasonable
Kyrie was only 1 first and he made it to the finals 3 times and as a title. Grant is not worth two.
 

Proximo

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Kyrie was only 1 first and he made it to the finals 3 times and as a title. Grant is not worth two.
come on, do you seriously not understand why Kylie was 1?

he is considered toxic, a potential team killer, and is looking for a 200 million dollar contract.

grant would only cost 1 if it was a top 5 pick, but nobody is expecting the suns picks to be anything other than 2 nd half of the first round.
 

Proximo

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He's an expiring contract. 2 first round picks for a rental is nuts, especially a role player rental.
He would not be a rental. Only reason you make the deal is to resign him, and we get the bird rights - which is the only way we can acquire a quality talent.
 

Finito

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He would not be a rental. Only reason you make the deal is to resign him, and we get the bird rights - which is the only way we can acquire a quality talent.

Grant is not that good and he’s going to want to get paid like an all star

You don’t tie up your trade assets for a role player
 

Proximo

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Grant is not that good and he’s going to want to get paid like an all star

You don’t tie up your trade assets for a role player
He's more than a role player and you do trade picks if you think he is enough to put you over the top.

You realize in that trade we subtract nothing of value for this season and add Grant right?

This is pretty laughable, odds are Portland won't even accept our 2 picks and most of the people on here seem to think it's too much. Pretty easy to see why people are mad at James Jones, their expectations are all out of whack.
 

Covert Rain

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come on, do you seriously not understand why Kylie was 1?

he is considered toxic, a potential team killer, and is looking for a 200 million dollar contract.

grant would only cost 1 if it was a top 5 pick, but nobody is expecting the suns picks to be anything other than 2 nd half of the first round.
Come on. You act like Grant has done anything up to this point. He is not KD either. You want the Suns to spend 2 firsts on a guy that isn't a KD level player? Hilarious. The issue is that you are not getting him with just two firsts. You want to trade other assets plus 2 firsts.

JEEBUS.
 

Proximo

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Come on. You act like Grant has done anything up to this point. He is not KD either. You want the Suns to spend 2 firsts on a guy that isn't a KD level player? Hilarious. The issue is that you are not getting him with just two firsts. You want to trade other assets plus 2 firsts.

JEEBUS.
Where on earth am I stating he is like KD? He's not - but in this proposed deal we are only talking about 2 picks - where with KD it would be more like 4 picks - Mikal and DA at a minimum - That is an ENORMOUS difference in value - at least 3X as much.

Let me post some stats

He is averaging 20 pts per game, shooting 41% from 3 and 48% overall. More efficient than the average NBA player
His VORP - Value over a replacement level player is 1.3 for comparison Booker is at 1.5 and Mikal is at 1.6 - and Ayton is at 1.0

By all statistical measures he is Portland's 2nd best player - the numbers suggest he would likely be our 3rd best if we acquired him - at worst comparable in value to Ayton.

That is a bargain for 2 first round picks in the 20's, and most likely we would be outbid by another team if he is even available.
 

Covert Rain

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Where on earth am I stating he is like KD? He's not - but in this proposed deal we are only talking about 2 picks - where with KD it would be more like 4 picks - Mikal and DA at a minimum - That is an ENORMOUS difference in value - at least 3X as much.

Let me post some stats

He is averaging 20 pts per game, shooting 41% from 3 and 48% overall. More efficient than the average NBA player
His VORP - Value over a replacement level player is 1.3 for comparison Booker is at 1.5 and Mikal is at 1.6 - and Ayton is at 1.0

By all statistical measures he is Portland's 2nd best player - the numbers suggest he would likely be our 3rd best if we acquired him - at worst comparable in value to Ayton.

That is a bargain for 2 first round picks in the 20's, and most likely we would be outbid by another team if he is even available.
No no no. I didn't say you said that. I said, he is not KD. Meaning I would give up assets and two 1st picks for KD without hesitation. I sure in hell wouldn't for Grant. In order to get him (which we are not), you are going to have to give up one of our best players and then some. You want to add two firsts for a guy who hasn't proved anything? You want to give up all those assets and two first round picks to a guy whose team is under .500 with him?

Yeah....no. One is more than enough if you give up Ayton, Crowder and Payne. Through in twos for all I care.
 

Finito

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He's more than a role player and you do trade picks if you think he is enough to put you over the top.

You realize in that trade we subtract nothing of value for this season and add Grant right?

This is pretty laughable, odds are Portland won't even accept our 2 picks and most of the people on here seem to think it's too much. Pretty easy to see why people are mad at James Jones, their expectations are all out of whack.

He’s 100% a role player. You think Grant puts us over the top?
 

95pro

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No no no. I didn't say you said that. I said, he is not KD. Meaning I would give up assets and two 1st picks for KD without hesitation. I sure in hell wouldn't for Grant. In order to get him (which we are not), you are going to have to give up one of our best players and then some. You want to add two firsts for a guy who hasn't proved anything? You want to give up all those assets and two first round picks to a guy whose team is under .500 with him?

Yeah....no. One is more than enough if you give up Ayton, Crowder and Payne. Through in twos for all I care.

This means nothing, he was on an up and coming nuggets, then the pistons. Now the blazers, where theyve suffered some injuries.

Kyried has proved something, but you have to evaluate the current situation with players. Kyrie, now, is a head case.

Grant, now, can fill our glaring hole at forward while providing good numbers, good defense (better than Crowder and CamJ). This season, he's proven he can carry the team in stints.

I'm looking at acquire Grant because he'll complete this team. We are not requiring him to carry this team, but if needed he's just anther guy that can get his if he wanted.

2 firsts for Grant, count me in as this could be our window if we can't move cp3 this by the trade deadline.
 
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He’s 100% a role player. You think Grant puts us over the top?

I'm not pushing for Jerami Grant, but if he wasn't an expiring contract and wanting a ton of money, he is exactly the type player the Suns need at power forward. He would be the Suns version of Bobby Portis.
 

Covert Rain

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This means nothing, he was on an up and coming nuggets, then the pistons. Now the blazers, where theyve suffered some injuries.

Kyried has proved something, but you have to evaluate the current situation with players. Kyrie, now, is a head case.

Grant, now, can fill our glaring hole at forward while providing good numbers, good defense (better than Crowder and CamJ). This season, he's proven he can carry the team in stints.

I'm looking at acquire Grant because he'll complete this team. We are not requiring him to carry this team, but if needed he's just anther guy that can get his if he wanted.

2 firsts for Grant, count me in as this could be our window if we can't move cp3 this by the trade deadline.
I never said anything about getting him or that he wouldn't fill a hole. I said he is not worth giving up Ayton plus two first rounders and other assets like this guy is the next coming of something.
 

Proximo

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He’s 100% a role player. You think Grant puts us over the top?
He might. He might not. Do I think it is a risk worth taking? Yes. I do not think of him as a role player - he is a certified starting 4 on almost any team, and a big upgrade over crowder. A bench player is a role player - he is definitely not that.

James Jones history suggests he is just going to ship off our 20 something pick for a real role player.

We cannot acquire a starter via free agency, and the odds of acquiring a starter via the draft is very low where we are picking this year - so yes to have a legit chance to compete, this seems like a good move to me.
 

Proximo

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I never said anything about getting him or that he wouldn't fill a hole. I said he is not worth giving up Ayton plus two first rounders and other assets like this guy is the next coming of something.
Are you under the impression we are giving up Ayton in the proposed deal - cause we aren't and I would not be in favor of doing so.

Or are you under the impression Ayton is only worth 2 20 something first rounders? Because I think he is worth more than that. I know I said Grant is roughly equivalent in performance to Ayton - but Ayton is already resigned and he still has the potential to get much better whereas Grant is what he is at this point.
 
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I could get excited by Jared Vanderbilt as well if the Jazz decided to trade him.

Also, I like Chris Boucher of the Raptors as well.
 

Covert Rain

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Are you under the impression we are giving up Ayton in the proposed deal - cause we aren't and I would not be in favor of doing so.

Or are you under the impression Ayton is only worth 2 20 something first rounders? Because I think he is worth more than that. I know I said Grant is roughly equivalent in performance to Ayton - but Ayton is already resigned and he still has the potential to get much better whereas Grant is what he is at this point.
Follow the trail on this discussion. Your first response was to the proposed trade. First off, Portland is not trading Grant without a major piece in return. So, no matter how you spin this it will cost us one of our best players.
 

Cheesebeef

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I never said anything about getting him or that he wouldn't fill a hole. I said he is not worth giving up Ayton plus two first rounders and other assets like this guy is the next coming of something.
No one ever said anything about putting Ayton in that deal.
 

Covert Rain

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No one ever said anything about putting Ayton in that deal.

They didn't? Although, Proximo is not advocating for Ayton being included, no way Portland makes that trade without one of our best players in return. They would demand Ayton, Bridges or something like that in return. No way would Portland considers otherwise. Here is the trade proposal that kicked off the discussion earlier in this thread.

How many picks would you give up to make happen?
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Proximo

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Follow the trail on this discussion. Your first response was to the proposed trade. First off, Portland is not trading Grant without a major piece in return. So, no matter how you spin this it will cost us one of our best players.
Well then we are in agreement. I'm not doing any deal with even Ayton straight up for him, let alone throwing in any picks.
 

Proximo

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They didn't? Although, Proximo is not advocating for Ayton being included, no way Portland makes that trade without one of our best players in return. They would demand Ayton, Bridges or something like that in return. No way would Portland considers otherwise. Here is the trade proposal that kicked off the discussion earlier in this thread.
The deal I brought up - check the thread - which I got off the PHNX podcast was

Crowder, Dario and 2 firsts - that is what I have been talking about the whole time.

Would they take that deal probably not - but it depends how much they don't want to lose him for nothing and what other teams are willing to offer, I don't think it is impossible.
 

Cheesebeef

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They didn't? Although, Proximo is not advocating for Ayton being included, no way Portland makes that trade without one of our best players in return. They would demand Ayton, Bridges or something like that in return. No way would Portland considers otherwise. Here is the trade proposal that kicked off the discussion earlier in this thread.
You can’t argue that we can’t give up picks because they’re too important then turnaround and say they’d be nothing of use to the Blazers.

Again, changing someone else’s argument to further your own is nothing but gaslighting crap that continually ruins this board.
 

Cheesebeef

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They didn't? Although, Proximo is not advocating for Ayton being included, no way Portland makes that trade without one of our best players in return. They would demand Ayton, Bridges or something like that in return. No way would Portland considers otherwise. Here is the trade proposal that kicked off the discussion earlier in this thread.
Yeah… that trade is NOT what Proximo countered with AND that initial trade it doesn’t just get us Grant, it also gets us Simons and Nurstic. Parts of the trade you STILL ignore even though it’s not even the suggested trade by Proximo.
 

Covert Rain

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You can’t argue that we can’t give up picks because they’re too important then turnaround and say they’d be nothing of use to the Blazers.

Again, changing someone else’s argument to further your own is nothing but gaslighting crap that continually ruins this board.
WTH are you talking about? I never said they would be nothing of use to the Blazers. I was responding to your "Nobody" comment which obviously isn't true. Talk about gaslighting. My only point has been that giving up a major player plus two firsts is too much for Grant. I said Proximo wasn't saying Ayton. I am saying that deal isn't getting done without giving up Ayton or Bridges.
 
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Covert Rain

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The deal I brought up - check the thread - which I got off the PHNX podcast was

Crowder, Dario and 2 firsts - that is what I have been talking about the whole time.

Would they take that deal probably not - but it depends how much they don't want to lose him for nothing and what other teams are willing to offer, I don't think it is impossible.
That's fair. I would take a deal that was lopsided too. Just no way Portland takes that.
 
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