Suns updates and discussion for the 2022-23 season

Phrazbit

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The nets beat writer is saying the exact opposite in that tweet. Just sayin.

I see that, but everything I've heard about him before is that he is combative and icy with the press. Maybe they have a good rapport though.
 

Cheesebeef

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You guys are saying that Grant is the ideal PF for us, when statistically he is a lesser version of our current PF.

Trading multiple firsts would be a real sacrifice of our future ability to make trades and add to the roster and yeah, it makes us deeper, but does it improve our "best 5" lineup... no.

Unless we plan on running with "point Book" in the clutch, Grant wouldn't even be on the court at the end of games.
JESUS CHRIST. What the hell is up with all the gaslighting recently?

Neither of us have said GRANT IS THE IDEAL PF FOR US.

I and Proximo are talking about adding Grant TO Cam Johnson as part of the rotation.

And who knows what the playoffs bring… if CP3 stays healthy or Cam J does. There actually COULD be a scenario where Point Book is a necessity because CP3 is both older then dirt and a shell of himself in half the games.

Good lord.
 

Phrazbit

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I didn't say he was ideal. I am saying he would be a great addition and absolutely improve the team

Cam Johnson is great as a 6th man. We cannot afford to wait around, this deadline is pretty much it as we will not have CP3 or a good replacement for him next year IMO.

2 first round picks and a massive extension is far too steep a price to pay for a guy who, while he would improve our team, would not improve best 5 lineup.

I agree that we need a CP3 replacement, that should be our biggest priority, if we traded for Grant it would be a lot harder to get a strong replacement for Paul.
 

Proximo

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Interesting that Woj would post this. Does he know something?
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Phrazbit

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JESUS CHRIST. What the hell is up with all the gaslighting recently?

Neither of us have said GRANT IS THE IDEAL PF FOR US.

I and Proximo are talking about adding Grant TO Cam Johnson as part of the rotation.

And who knows what the playoffs bring… if CP3 stays healthy or Cam J does. There actually COULD be a scenario where Point Book is a necessity because CP3 is both older then dirt and a shell of himself in half the games.

Good lord.

You literally said "he is the perfect 4 for this team"...

Chill out.
 

Finito

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Somebody all up in his feelings. Some men react emotionally and others logically
 

Finito

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So, trying to get away from the poster-vs-poster attacks, but what will the board think when Jae Crowder doesn't get traded? Which is looking like the most likely scenario.

Massive fail by JJ is he doesn’t turn all these expiring contracts and picks into something
 

Cheesebeef

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You guys are saying that Grant is the ideal PF for us, when statistically he is a lesser version of our current PF.

Trading multiple firsts would be a real sacrifice of our future ability to make trades and add to the roster and yeah, it makes us deeper, but does it improve our "best 5" lineup... no.

Unless we plan on running with "point Book" in the clutch, Grant wouldn't even be on the court at the end of games.
Also, WTF are you talking about that Grant is statistically lesser?

Cam is averaging 14 ppg, 3.8 rebounds and 1.5 assists…


Compared to…

Grant averaging 20.7/4.3/2.3 on 41% from 3 and 48% overall.

AND Grant can actually create his own shot… something Cam just doesn’t do. Now, you’ve made clear you think we’re “fine” with shot creators but I find that to be a ridiculous stance to take.

With the stats you posted, are you extrapolating stats for Cam that he’s NEVER achieved? Because that’s such a specious argument it’s almost too stupid to respond to, especially since Cam has has never shown the ability to handle more minutes to get those stats without injury.

And AGAIN, we’re not talking about an either or situation… we’re talking YES AND… in a move that can allow us to play in a host of different ways and give us another shot creator which this offense desperately needs in the playoffs.
 
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Cheesebeef

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You literally said "he is the perfect 4 for this team"...

Chill out.
Context matters. I’m talking about a scenario where we keep BOTH Cam AND get Grant. But hey… keep gaslighting. Makes for great conversation.
 

95pro

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It's a lot easier to keep an RFA.

I also don't get how the guy people are claiming is the exact kind of power forward we need is, statistically and defensively, a lesser version of our current power forward.

2 first round picks and a massive extension is far too steep a price to pay for a guy who, while he would improve our team, would not improve best 5 lineup.

I agree that we need a CP3 replacement, that should be our biggest priority, if we traded for Grant it would be a lot harder to get a strong replacement for Paul.

They play completely different, Cam from the outside in, Grant inside out. Their offensive numbers may be the same but totally different styles. Defensively Grant is relied on a bit more, he's a bit more dynamic than Cam as well on defense.

If we can add Grant without losing anyone significant, its a win. I'm not sure why you keep comparing the two, statistically they are the same yes but if you can get another guy who can contribute for Crowder and picks, then you do it for a championship run.
 

Cheesebeef

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They play completely different, Cam from the outside in, Grant inside out. Their offensive numbers may be the same but totally different styles. Defensively Grant is relied on a bit more, he's a bit more dynamic than Cam as well on defense.

If we can add Grant without losing anyone significant, its a win. I'm not sure why you keep comparing the two, statistically they are the same yes but if you can get another guy who can contribute for Crowder and picks, then you do it for a championship run.
This.
 

Phrazbit

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Context matters. I’m talking about a scenario where we keep BOTH Cam AND get Grant. But hey… keep gaslighting. Makes for great conversation.

Really?

I am at a loss for words here.

I am not talking about dumping Cam either, I am merely pointing out that Grant isn't even an upgrade OVER Cam, and we already have Cam.

As for the repeated "gaslighting" accusation...

You called him the "perfect PF for this team", and then lit into me for claiming you thought he was the ideal PF.

Seriously... chill out man.
 

Phrazbit

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They play completely different, Cam from the outside in, Grant inside out. Their offensive numbers may be the same but totally different styles. Defensively Grant is relied on a bit more, he's a bit more dynamic than Cam as well on defense.

If we can add Grant without losing anyone significant, its a win. I'm not sure why you keep comparing the two, statistically they are the same yes but if you can get another guy who can contribute for Crowder and picks, then you do it for a championship run.

Grant is a minus as a defender. That is the biggest difference between the two. On a per minute production rate, they are offensively very similar. Cam is plus defender, Grant is a minus. They're both poor rebounders although Cam is somewhat less poor and he turns the ball over significantly less.
 

Phrazbit

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Ignoring the Cam comparisons:

Trading multiple picks for a guy who is about to be a UFA is a really risky proposition.

No matter what, it essentially ends our chances of landing a real star if one becomes available and there is a real chance that Grant simply signs somewhere else in the off season.

This same guy forced his way out of Denver because he wanted a bigger role.

He's also never seemed to make much of an impact when it comes to winning games. Denver didn't miss a beat when they traded him, Detroit didn't improve when they got him, Portland is the same middling team they've been for years.
 

Covert Rain

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Really?

I am at a loss for words here.

I am not talking about dumping Cam either, I am merely pointing out that Grant isn't even an upgrade OVER Cam, and we already have Cam.

As for the repeated "gaslighting" accusation...

You called him the "perfect PF for this team", and then lit into me for claiming you thought he was the ideal PF.

Seriously... chill out man.
Don't feel bad you are not alone today. How about an accusation while doing exactly that? LOL.

It's all good. I love the people here. Like I said, something is in the air or water today.
 

Proximo

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Ignoring the Cam comparisons:

Trading multiple picks for a guy who is about to be a UFA is a really risky proposition.

No matter what, it essentially ends our chances of landing a real star if one becomes available and there is a real chance that Grant simply signs somewhere else in the off season.

This same guy forced his way out of Denver because he wanted a bigger role.

He's also never seemed to make much of an impact when it comes to winning games. Denver didn't miss a beat when they traded him, Detroit didn't improve when they got him, Portland is the same middling team they've been for years.
Obviously you only do the deal if you talk to his agent and ask if he is likely to resign with the Suns, if the answer is no or non committal, you don't do the deal.
 

Bufalay

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Also, WTF are you talking about that Grant is statistically lesser?

Cam is averaging 14 ppg, 3.8 rebounds and 1.5 assists…


Compared to…

Grant averaging 20.7/4.3/2.3 on 41% from 3 and 48% overall.

AND Grant can actually create his own shot… something Cam just doesn’t do. Now, you’ve made clear you think we’re “fine” with shot creators but I find that to be a ridiculous stance to take.

With the stats you posted, are you extrapolating stats for Cam that he’s NEVER achieved? Because that’s such a specious argument it’s almost too stupid to respond to, especially since Cam has has never shown the ability to handle more minutes to get those stats without injury.

And AGAIN, we’re not talking about an either or situation… we’re talking YES AND… in a move that can allow us to play in a host of different ways and give us another shot creator which this offense desperately needs in the playoffs.

Cam J can create his own shot, can drive and make pull up jump shots. His advanced stats are slightly better than Grants. Grant is a negative defender and Cam is a positive defender.

Looks more like Grant puts up good stats that don't contribute much to winning. Check out his stats last time he was on a good team (Denver, 12 ppg, 3.5 rpg).
 

Cheesebeef

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Cam J can create his own shot,
Not with anywhere near the regularity Grant can. We’re talking about a guy who consistently gets to the line 5 or 6 times per game. Cam doesnt even average 2. Do you know why that is? Hint… it’s because one is superior at creating his own shot and getting to the basket. To even come close to equivocating their games is quite frankly the dumbest comment you made today. Which is saying something.

And AGAIN, we’re talking about if we’d trade Jae, Dario and picks meaning it’s NOT EITHER OR. It’s YES AND that we would be in for.
can drive and make pull up jump shots. His advanced stats are slightly better than Grants. Grant is a negative defender and Cam is a positive defender.

Looks more like Grant puts up good stats that don't contribute much to winning. Check out his stats last time he was on a good team (Denver, 12 ppg, 3.5 rpg).
Incredibly stupid argument especially since you just used the advanced stats argument above. He was averaging 12 ppg and 3.5 rpg in 25 minutes. Run the advance stats there and you’ll find he was a major part of a Denver team that was 2 games away from the Finals, pretty much playing at the same level Cam is now. And… I know… this is gonna seem crazy to you, but as a young player he ACTUALLY GOT BETTER IN THE LAST THREE YEARS.

But even back in 2020 he was a pretty good contributor for one of the top 4 teams in the league.

What’s the next specious or stupidly projected argument you have next in the chamber?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Why don’t people want to replace crowder, who isn’t playing, with grant, who has developed into a legit player? The two firsts will be late firsts.

Cam Johnson doesn’t even need to be mentioned in this discussion.
 

Cheesebeef

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Why don’t people want to replace crowder, who isn’t playing, with grant, who has developed into a legit player? The two firsts will be late firsts.

Cam Johnson doesn’t even need to be mentioned in this discussion.
makes no sense.
 
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