Suns updates and discussion for the 2022-23 season

Cheesebeef

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JJJ wouldn't. And Mikal probably wouldn't either. I don't know if I'd take Trae over DA. To me, there's only one clear guy ahead of him -- the rest are all marginally better or worse. SGA would be the only one that I'd think about more than a few minutes.
I think JJJ absolutely would. He’s being talked about as defensive player of the year and The coaches and players basically just said so putting him on the All-Star reserves. Something that Ayton has never even been close to.

Bridges wouldn’t. I agree with that.
 

Chaplin

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I think most people take JJJ over Ayton at this point… even with his injuries. He’s considered one of the best defensive big men in the league and has been named an All-Star, none of which can be said about Ayton.
No way. Maybe you would, but I wouldn't.
 

Chaplin

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I think JJJ absolutely would. He’s being talked about as defensive player of the year and The coaches and players basically just said so putting him on the All-Star reserves. Something that Ayton has never even been close to.

Bridges wouldn’t. I agree with that.
Defensive player of the year talk doesn't matter. Look at Mikal and Marcus Smart. But I'm also looking at the breadth of work, not just this season, which I will concede has not been great for Ayton.
 

Cheesebeef

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No way. Maybe you would, but I wouldn't.
Okay. Again, Ayton’s peers and Coaches just voted that they would pick JJJ over him as they put him JJJ on the All-Star reserve team. That’s a pretty good barometer of their value in the league right now as you look at a redraft.
 

Chaplin

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Okay. Again, Ayton’s peers and Coaches just voted that they would pick JJJ over him as they put him JJJ on the All-Star reserve team. That’s a pretty good barometer of their value in the league right now as you look at a redraft.
For THIS year. But I know you're not short-sighted enough to base a redraft only on the last 4 months.
 

Superbone

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Okay. Again, Ayton’s peers and Coaches just voted that they would pick JJJ over him as they put him JJJ on the All-Star reserve team. That’s a pretty good barometer of their value in the league right now as you look at a redraft.
That's only based on this season.
 

Cheesebeef

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Defensive player of the year talk doesn't matter. Look at Mikal and Marcus Smart. But I'm also looking at the breadth of work, not just this season, which I will concede has not been great for Ayton.
Lol… okay. It’s at least one metric of worth. How about All-Star appearances voted upon by Coaches and Players? Does that not matter either?
 

Chaplin

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Lol… okay. It’s at least one metric of worth. How about All-Star appearances voted upon by Coaches and Players? Does that not matter either?
Ayton has been in the league for 5 years. Why does only this season matter? Previous seasons do matter, and JJJ has been frequently injured. That counts for something.
 

Cheesebeef

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For THIS year. But I know you're not short-sighted enough to base a redraft only on the last 4 months.
You’re right. It’s based on the last four years of JJJ being considered the vastly superior defender AND almost equally adept on offense, while having zero issues about his motor AND having reached a level this year where his game has grown enough that Coaches and Players recognize he’s elevated to All-Star level.

Let me ask you this. Do you think that the Grizzlies would trade JJJ straight up for Ayton?
 

Chaplin

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You’re right. It’s based on the last four years of JJJ being considered the vastly superior defender AND almost equally adept on offense, while having zero issues about his motor AND having reached a level this year where his game has grown enough that Coaches and Players recognize he’s elevated to All-Star level.

Let me ask you this. Do you think that the Grizzlies would trade JJJ straight up for Ayton?
No. I never said that Ayton is the Lebron James to JJJ's Jock Landale. I just think Ayton would be picked ahead of him in a tight reimagining of the 2018 draft. The difference is negligible, I'll concede that. But outside of this year, Ayton's defensive capabilities are closer to JJJ than you'd like to admit.

But this year, JJJ has been better. No dispute there.
 

Cheesebeef

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Ayton has been in the league for 5 years. Why does only this season matter? Previous seasons do matter, and JJJ has been frequently injured. That counts for something.
Not saying only this season matters. But Ayton has been frequently injured/suspended also. Or do 25 games suspension (and now threatened with much worse for a second penalty) in Year 2 and missed 24 games last year.

That counts for something also.
 

Chaplin

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Not saying only this season matters. But Ayton has been frequently injured/suspended also. Or do 25 games suspension (and now threatened with much worse for a second penalty) in Year 2 and missed 24 games last year.

That counts for something also.
The 25 games wasn't an injury though. Stupid mistake, sure, but that shouldn't be counted on whether he is "frequently" injured. Which is much less rare than suspensions. And he's been pretty clean since then.
 

Cheesebeef

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No. I never said that Ayton is the Lebron James to JJJ's Jock Landale. I just think Ayton would be picked ahead of him in a tight reimagining of the 2018 draft. The difference is negligible, I'll concede that. But outside of this year, Ayton's defensive capabilities are closer to JJJ than you'd like to admit.

But this year, JJJ has been better. No dispute there.
Jesus… no one ever accused of that kind of stupidity. forget it Chap. I stopped reading after you posted that because it’s obvious you’re coming from this at an emotional angle rather than a rational one. And I ain’t debating anyone posting that gaslighting crap.
 

Chaplin

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Jesus… forget it Chap. I stopped reading after you posted that stupid projection, which NO ONE accused you of because it’s obvious you’re coming from this at an emotional angle rather than a rational one.
You know what? I was exaggerating for effect. If you don't want to have a conversation than don't respond.

Emotional my ass. That's a personal attack and beneath you on this thread.
 

Proximo

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You’re right. It’s based on the last four years of JJJ being considered the vastly superior defender AND almost equally adept on offense, while having zero issues about his motor AND having reached a level this year where his game has grown enough that Coaches and Players recognize he’s elevated to All-Star level.

Let me ask you this. Do you think that the Grizzlies would trade JJJ straight up for Ayton?
probably not, because they are pretty close in value and they know what they have in their own player.

my Explanation for jjj being an all star is he is on ja’s team, and lots of people like to watch him play.

Ayton statistically is basically dead even or better. Perception locally and league wide is not on his side though, probably because nobody likes how soft he plays.
 

Cheesebeef

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probably not, because they are pretty close in value and they know what they have in their own player.

my Explanation for jjj being an all star is he is on ja’s team, and lots of people like to watch him play.

Ayton statistically is basically dead even or better. Perception locally and league wide is not on his side though, probably because nobody likes how soft he plays.
How soft he plays is why JJJ would be picked over him.

Again, JJJ is looking at being a 2 Time First Team All-Defense, likely 1 time Defensive Player Of The Year this year and now an All-Star reserve appearance.

But Ayton, who has never accomplished anything close to any of that and plays soft as Charmin would go ahead of him?

Yes, JJJ has some injury concerns, but DA has missed 11-25 games every single year of his career for injuries or suspension… while ALSO no showing for another 5-10 even when he’s on the court.
 
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Proximo

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Maybe but I wouldn't be shocked to see Doncic, Trae, JJJ and Mikal above him. On paper that appeared to be an incredible draft class but it's been mostly underwhelming.
Underwhelming - what drafts are you looking at?

It's without a doubt a top 20% draft
 

Finito

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Maybe but I wouldn't be shocked to see Doncic, Trae, JJJ and Mikal above him. On paper that appeared to be an incredible draft class but it's been mostly underwhelming.

This board would lose its **** if JJJ was a Sun. He’s horrible. He only plays 27 minutes a game because he might have the lowest basketball IQ I’ve ever seen. He’s a fouling machine.

They all have flaws but fans always think players on other teams are better than they are. Russillo just did a podcast about how it’s starting to look like Trae Young is a cancer and that locker room in ATL. Apparently guys don’t like playing with him and he hasn’t gotten along with any coach he’s ever had, flat out refuses to commit to defense. That team has a lot of talent and they’re the 8th seed right now.

There are very very few perfect players in the NBA.
 

Cheesebeef

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Underwhelming - what drafts are you looking at?

It's without a doubt a top 20% draft
Yeah… Luka, Shai, Trae, Ayton, JJJ, Sexton, Miles Bridges (criminality withstanding), Anfernee Simons, Brunson, Kevin Huerter and Robert Williams all in the top 33 is a pretty banging draft.
 
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Mainstreet

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Yeah… Luka, Shai, Trae, Ayton, JJJ, Sexton, Miles Bridges (criminality withstanding), Anfernee Simons, Brunson, Kevin Huerter and Robert Williams all in the top 33 is a pretty banging draft.

That was an especially good second round draft. I'm not going to argue about the early picks because Doncic was the clear winner.
 

Proximo

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Yeah… Luka, Shai, Trae, Ayton, JJJ, Sexton, Miles Bridges (criminality withstanding), Anfernee Simons, Brunson, Kevin Huerter and Robert Williams all in the top 33 is a pretty banging draft.
Mikal also.
 
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Mainstreet

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Mikal also.

It's hard to argue the Suns should have drafted Shai over Mikal even if they had the chance.

I wanted Shai so badly, I thought the Suns had traded for him when the trade was first announced.
 

Covert Rain

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Sarver is rumored to be making 1.4-1.6 billion after the transaction to Ishiba (37% stake). Remaining partners selling 25% stake. Matt will own 57% after the transaction. Transaction scheduled to close tomorrow.
 

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