Suns Off Season Changes for 2025-26

[clyde2tw]

Unlike many here, I still like the general idea of KD trade except for minor parts. They'd have traded Crowder for Hachimura in 3-way with Bucks earlier and insisted on Yuta as filler.
The worst was the Beal trade, where we'd have been much better off by just waive CP3. Then another 'minor' throw away of Camara in that DA deal.
Then the bad contracts for GA and RO in both length and size, while Malik Beasley, Trent, Jones, Marshall, Oubre, Prince, Westbrook, etc. all went for min on the market.
Ideally, after the KD trade, if we had let PC3 go and done the rumored sign and trade of DA for Turner + filler or Irvine, kept Camara, signed some of the above listed much better min players than Yuta, Metu etc. in addition to MLE player, we'd have been fine still.

BTW, a fair deal would've been giving GA 11m per and RO 9m per for 4 years with team option for the last year. With Trent, Prince etc on the mkt, nobody would be competing with Suns to beat these offers.

 

[Proximo]

I didn't see this possibility coming, that Khris Middleton could be bought out.

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Isn't he completely shot?

I don't know, I think I would rather just develop some young guys.

 

[Proximo]

It's a whole series of transactions that have buried the Suns. To name only a few:

1. Passing on Haliburton
2. Durant trade
3. Beal trade
4. Ayton trade (he would have been off the books by now)
5. Allen extension
6. O'Neale extension

Don't agree on the Allen extension or the O'Neale extension - they do have some value, I would not have let them walk for nothing.

 

[Mainstreet]

Don't agree on the Allen extension or the O'Neale extension - they do have some value, I would not have let them walk for nothing.

They were extended for trade purposes.

If the Suns didn't have them on their books or they were expiring contracts, they would likely have more value to the team.

It may have even avoided the need for the Suns to buy out Beal.

 

[Mainstreet]

Unlike many here, I still like the general idea of KD trade except for minor parts. They'd have traded Crowder for Hachimura in 3-way with Bucks earlier and insisted on Yuta as filler.
The worst was the Beal trade, where we'd have been much better off by just waive CP3. Then another 'minor' throw away of Camara in that DA deal.
Then the bad contracts for GA and RO in both length and size, while Malik Beasley, Trent, Jones, Marshall, Oubre, Prince, Westbrook, etc. all went for min on the market.
Ideally, after the KD trade, if we had let PC3 go and done the rumored sign and trade of DA for Turner + filler or Irvine, kept Camara, signed some of the above listed much better min players than Yuta, Metu etc. in addition to MLE player, we'd have been fine still.

If the Suns had traded Crowder for Hachimura, like you said in your first sentence, there would be no need to trade for Durant.

Then, the Suns wouldn't have to compensate by trading for Beal.

The Suns would look much different today, likely in a good way.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If the Suns had traded Crowder for Hachimura, like you said in your first sentence, there would be no need to trade for Durant.

Then, the Suns wouldn't have to compensate by trading for Beal.

The Suns would look much different today, likely in a good way.

You think having Hachimura would have kept them from going for Durant? I doubt it.

 

[Mainstreet]

You think having Hachimura would have kept them from going for Durant? I doubt it.

It would have certainly helped the Suns need at power forward and lessened the impetus to make such a drastic trade.

However, it appears James Jones and later Mat Ishbia became fixated on the idea of trading for Durant.

There was a reason the Suns held back Jae Crowder's contract until the trade deadline.

IMO, he was insurance if the Suns needed to include him in the trade.

 

[Hoop Head]

It would have certainly helped the Suns need at power forward and lessened the impetus to make such a drastic trade.

However, it appears James Jones and later Mat Ishbia became fixated on the idea of trading for Durant.

There was a reason the Suns held back Jae Crowder's contract until the trade deadline.

IMO, he was insurance if the Suns needed to include him in the trade.

I think JJ was already fixated on KD and no Crowder move changes that.

The Hachimura deal would have been nice and provided some forward depth either with or without the KD trade. Saric could have been used in place of KD since he was on a similar sized deal and was gifted to OKC for some bust anyways.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think JJ was already fixated on KD and no Crowder move changes that.

The Hachimura deal would have been nice and provided some forward depth either with or without the KD trade. Saric could have been used in place of KD since he was on a similar sized deal and was gifted to OKC for some bust anyways.

I think James Jones already proved that point by his actions.

 

[clyde2tw]

It would have certainly helped the Suns need at power forward and lessened the impetus to make such a drastic trade.

However, it appears James Jones and later Mat Ishbia became fixated on the idea of trading for Durant.

There was a reason the Suns held back Jae Crowder's contract until the trade deadline.

IMO, he was insurance if the Suns needed to include him in the trade.

Disagree.
Suns was not desperately in need of PF but of superstar. Hachimura at PF to replace Crowder filled a roster need. It was crazy Bucks paid 5 SRPs for Crowder while Hachimura costed merely 2. KD deal would have gone through with Saric in Crowder's place plus 2 more SRPs. Nets was just bluffing to get everything possible out of Suns assets, yet Suns had a good position to say 'we still need a functioning roster around KD after the trade，now we already gave you all the tradable FRPs'。
The problem was JJ had no vision as to building a successful roster around KD/Book and miscalculated values of diff. players over his tenure.

 

[Hoop Head]

I wish the Suns held firm and waited until the summer to make a move. Then we could have replaced CP3 with Dame and kept chugging along. Dame and Booker would have been as potent as CP3 and Booker if not more so. Lillard was a dynamic scoring threat who would have allowed Booker to be open more often and play off the ball complimenting his game. We still likely lose Ayton in the Lillard deal but I believe it would have been the best path forward as a whole and a fraction of the price.

 

[Mainstreet]

Disagree.
Suns was not desperately in need of PF but of superstar. Hachimura at PF to replace Crowder filled a roster need. It was crazy Bucks paid 5 SRPs for Crowder while Hachimura costed merely 2. KD deal would have gone through with Saric in Crowder's place plus 2 more SRPs. Nets was just bluffing to get everything possible out of Suns assets, yet Suns had a good position to say 'we still need a functioning roster around KD after the trade，now we already gave you all the tradable FRPs'。
The problem was JJ had no vision as to building a successful roster around KD/Book and miscalculated values of diff. players over his tenure.

How did that superstar work out?

Stars without enough depth doesn't work.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How did that superstar work out?

Stars without enough depth doesn't work.

True… and at the same time, depth without enough stars won’t either. And at that point, with CP3 falling off a cliff, Book was the only star on the team. The KD deal was a bad one, and we would have been in a better situation long term having not made the deal. But at the same time, I’m very confused at how people think adding Hacimura was going solve the 2023 Suns team’s biggest problem, which wasn’t a lack of PF. It was Father Time making CP3 falling off a cliff. We saw that already play out in the 2022 playoffs where the Suns bottomed out the second CP3 turned 37 and seemingly forgot how to play basketball.

IMO, Only thing that could have turned the 2023 squad into a contender as they were constructed before the trade was Doc Brown’s Delorean and Joe Prosky’s Afro/Magic hands.

The moment CP3 fell apart, so did the contending status of the Suns. With Bridges, all their picks and Cam Johnson, they would have had much much much better pieces to try and rebuild a contender for the future. But that’s what I think they were staring at once they lost the HOF-level leader and 2 Time All-NBA PG while playing for the Suns, who brought the entire team together. And even though I badly wanted the KD trade, I’ve got no problem saying I wrong and they should have taken the longer term approach. But instead of going slow and steady, going for a more methodical rebuild around Booker, with plenty of assets to try and do so, they went for instant gratification and it blew up in their face.

 

[clyde2tw]

True… and at the same time, depth without enough stars won’t either. And at that point, with CP3 falling off a cliff, Book was the only star on the team. The KD deal was a bad one, and we would have been in a better situation long term having not made the deal. But at the same time, I’m very confused at how people think adding Hacimura was going solve the 2023 Suns team’s biggest problem, which wasn’t a lack of PF. It was Father Time making CP3 falling off a cliff. We saw that already play out in the 2022 playoffs where the Suns bottomed out the second CP3 turned 37 and seemingly forgot how to play basketball.

IMO, Only thing that could have turned the 2023 squad into a contender as they were constructed before the trade was Doc Brown’s Delorean and Joe Prosky’s Afro/Magic hands.

The moment CP3 fell apart, so did the contending status of the Suns. With Bridges, all their picks and Cam Johnson, they would have had much much much better pieces to try and rebuild a contender for the future. But that’s what I think they were staring at once they lost the HOF-level leader and 2 Time All-NBA PG while playing for the Suns, who brought the entire team together. And even though I badly wanted the KD trade, I’ve got no problem saying I wrong and they should have taken the longer term approach. But instead of going slow and steady, going for a more methodical rebuild around Booker, with plenty of assets to try and do so, they went for instant gratification and it blew up in their face.

The main culprit in hindsight was JJ at the head of the mgmt, who had no vision how to build a roster of proper complements, and who also lacks any 'art' of making deals. I heard getting Beal was KD's idea, and trusting Goodwin was Beal's recommendation, which I believe led to dump Camara in the DA deal instead of Goodwin. And Vogel played Goodwin ahead of Okogie made the latter less impactful the whole season. And his signing of Metu, Yuta etc. It's not impossible to build a contender with the core of KD and Booker, but not with JJ as the GM.

 

[Proximo]

How did that superstar work out?

Stars without enough depth doesn't work.

I think it has been pretty clearly demonstrated that 2 stars and depth is what is required now. 3 stars also work - if you have the depth and they fit together. Like OKC - I don't think Chet is a star yet, but that is their plan.

But I don't think 1 star and depth works. But then again it kind of depends on what you classify as a star - for instance Indiana - Haliburton and Siakam - Siakam is a borderline star - some would say he is some not - but they had the depth - and didn't quite win.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Suns tried to trade Durant last summer, and as a result, he went into cruise control.

 

[Raindog]

The main culprit in hindsight was JJ at the head of the mgmt, who had no vision how to build a roster of proper complements, and who also lacks any 'art' of making deals. I heard getting Beal was KD's idea, and trusting Goodwin was Beal's recommendation, which I believe led to dump Camara in the DA deal instead of Goodwin. And Vogel played Goodwin ahead of Okogie made the latter less impactful the whole season. And his signing of Metu, Yuta etc. It's not impossible to build a contender with the core of KD and Booker, but not with JJ as the GM.

+1000
JJ was a disaster as GM.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it has been pretty clearly demonstrated that 2 stars and depth is what is required now. 3 stars also work - if you have the depth and they fit together. Like OKC - I don't think Chet is a star yet, but that is their plan.

But I don't think 1 star and depth works. But then again it kind of depends on what you classify as a star - for instance Indiana - Haliburton and Siakam - Siakam is a borderline star - some would say he is some not - but they had the depth - and didn't quite win.

It takes at least two stars and quality rotation players to be a contender, if everything meshes perfectly.

OKC had two stars in Shai and Jalen Williams plus a rising star in Chet Holmgren.

I consider Siakam a star player, whether he is classified as one or not, and of course they had Haliburton. As you mention, they had excellent depth.

 

[Mainstreet]

True… and at the same time, depth without enough stars won’t either. And at that point, with CP3 falling off a cliff, Book was the only star on the team. The KD deal was a bad one, and we would have been in a better situation long term having not made the deal. But at the same time, I’m very confused at how people think adding Hacimura was going solve the 2023 Suns team’s biggest problem, which wasn’t a lack of PF. It was Father Time making CP3 falling off a cliff. We saw that already play out in the 2022 playoffs where the Suns bottomed out the second CP3 turned 37 and seemingly forgot how to play basketball.

IMO, Only thing that could have turned the 2023 squad into a contender as they were constructed before the trade was Doc Brown’s Delorean and Joe Prosky’s Afro/Magic hands.

The moment CP3 fell apart, so did the contending status of the Suns. With Bridges, all their picks and Cam Johnson, they would have had much much much better pieces to try and rebuild a contender for the future. But that’s what I think they were staring at once they lost the HOF-level leader and 2 Time All-NBA PG while playing for the Suns, who brought the entire team together. And even though I badly wanted the KD trade, I’ve got no problem saying I wrong and they should have taken the longer term approach. But instead of going slow and steady, going for a more methodical rebuild around Booker, with plenty of assets to try and do so, they went for instant gratification and it blew up in their face.

Here is how I look at it. Adding Rui Hachimura in and by itself may not have gotten the Suns over the hump.

However, the Suns would have still had Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson on that team along with all their assets intact, less Jae Crowder.

This means, if James Jones had not been locked onto Durant, they could have made other trades at the trade deadline or the coming summer to strengthen the team.

Also, the Suns would have had the assets to trade for a point guard to replace Chris Paul.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Here is how I look at it. Adding Rui Hachimura in and by itself may not have gotten the Suns over the hump.

However, the Suns would have still had Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson on that team along with all their assets intact, less Jae Crowder.

This means, if James Jones had not been locked onto Durant, they could have made other trades at the trade deadline or the coming summer to strengthen the team.

Also, the Suns would have had the assets to trade for a point guard to replace Chris Paul.

They would have gone after Durant regardless. I am absolutely convinced of that. Ish was a brand new owner and would have done anything to get Durant here. He has learned now.


I hope.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wish the Suns held firm and waited until the summer to make a move. Then we could have replaced CP3 with Dame and kept chugging along. Dame and Booker would have been as potent as CP3 and Booker if not more so. Lillard was a dynamic scoring threat who would have allowed Booker to be open more often and play off the ball complimenting his game. We still likely lose Ayton in the Lillard deal but I believe it would have been the best path forward as a whole and a fraction of the price.

I couldn't get on the Lillard bandwagon. Rumors indicate this is what Giannis wanted. I'd take Jrue Holiday over him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I couldn't get on the Lillard bandwagon. Rumors indicate this is what Giannis wanted. I'd take Jrue Holiday over him.

Agreed. I don't think Lillard and Book is as good a combo as Jrue and Book would have been.

 

[Mainstreet]

They would have gone after Durant regardless. I am absolutely convinced of that. Ish was a brand new owner and would have done anything to get Durant here. He has learned now.


I hope.

I think James Jones had already been working on trading for Durant all season and set the table so to speak.

When Matt Ishbia became the owner, he removed any roadblocks and gave the Nets everything they wanted.

One begat the other.

 

[Mainstreet]

Agreed. I don't think Lillard and Book is as good a combo as Jrue and Book would have been.

The Lillard trade to the Bucks never made sense to me. They were better off with Holiday.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Lillard trade to the Bucks never made sense to me. They were better off with Holiday.

The only way it made sense to me was if somehow they knew that Jrue's body was breaking down.