Suggs Or Dansby???

[overseascardfan]

If I was going to pony up two 20M+ contracts it would be for Suggs and Asomugha, anyone with me? Dansby should get Tatupu money (unless he got 20M+ guaranteed, I'm not sure how his contract breaks down but his contract seems fair for a guy like Dansby).

 

[ThunderCard]

I agree with Both, We should be able to keep Dansby and sign Suggs. Yeah it would be 40+ million guaranteed, but you could make it fit without a problem. With Suggs we could be a Top 10 D next year.

 

[RolleRocks]

Suggs + Ray Lewis for about $50M.

Dump Dansby.

With those two on D, we will win the next 2 or 3 Super Bowls.

 

[joeshmo]

Dansby. He's better in pass coverage, better against the run and is more capable of fitting the Cardinal system than Suggs for those reasons mentioned above. Pass rushing wise, he's capable of putting up big sack totals but is better suited for the role he has now. Plus, he's yet to reach his full potential, whereas Suggs has reached what he's capable of doing (which is damn good I might add).

He is good in pass coverage but he isnt that much better. In fact a case can be made that Suggs is actually better in pass coverage. Even though Dansby is in coverage more Suggs has 1 more pass defensed then Dansby has over the last two years. Dansby has 5 INT compared to Suggs 2 though.

Also Suggs is easily better against the run. He is way stouter at the point of attack then Dansby. More tackles for loss as well, and he is one of the best contain OLB/DE's in the league.

What role do you think Suggs has right now? Because suggs isnt just a pass rusher. He is asked to drop into coverage, he is asked to blitz standing up, he is asked to play DE, he is asked to contain, and on and on.

Also how does a 27 soon to be 28 year old not have reached his full potential yet. He has already played in this system for 2 years now. If Dansby hasnt reach his potential yet then neither has the 26 soon to be 27 year old Suggs becuase Suggs as well has been switching from 4-3 to 3-4 defenses his whole career as well. Suggs also has only been playing in a 3-4 the last two years. In 06 and 05 they were in a 4-3. Suggs can play in a 4-3, 3-4, or 46.

 

[joeshmo]

Yeah it would be 40+ million guaranteed, but you could make it fit without a problem.

Again it would fit that isnt the problem. It is a matter of philosophy

"Ask yourself this and consider we are trying emulate Pitt. concerning drafting and free agency. Would Pitt spend over 40 mill in gauranteed on two LB's in one offseason? No they wouldnt."

 

[joeshmo]

My only concern is breaking up the core. Dansby is the captain of the D and best friends with AW. You don't get any more core than that. I do agree that we need a pass rushing OLB and Suggs fits the bill perfectly but keeping the core together is just as important.

I am not sure just how fluid that Captian thing is. How quickly they changed it from Hayes to Danby in just one offseason. Being friends with AW doesnt mean much in terms of how AW will play, act, or his influence on others.

 

[Zeno]

Great points. Also I think it is worth mentioning that Suggs has NEVER missed a game.

Didn't you go on and on last season about how overrated Suggs is?

 

[cardsfanmd]

Didn't you go on and on last season about how overrated Suggs is?

IIRC, what I said was that Suggs would have flopped were he drafted by the Cards.

His first two years, all he did was come in on 3rd down and rush the passer. With Offenses keying in on guys like Ray Lewis and Peter Boulware Suggs had a much easier transition in Baltimore than he would have had in AZ where he would have been expected to be a 3 down player from the start. That D was putrid and teams could have doubled him on passing downs and ran all over him in run situation IMO.

 

[Zeno]

IIRC, what I said was that Suggs would have flopped were he drafted by the Cards.

His first two years, all he did was come in on 3rd down and rush the passer. With Offenses keying in on guys like Ray Lewis and Peter Boulware Suggs had a much easier transition in Baltimore than he would have had in AZ where he would have been expected to be a 3 down player from the start. That D was putrid and teams could have doubled him on passing downs and ran all over him in run situation IMO.

You said this....

My second wish is that we stay far away from Suggs, as Pace is better.

Pace better than Suggs? I questioned that then and I don't think it sounds any better now.

 

[cardsfanmd]

You said this....



Pace better than Suggs? I questioned that then and I don't think it sounds any better now.

I stand corrected. Good call.

 

[CardLogic]

How can you debate which is better Suggs or Dansby? For the last two years they haven't played the same position.

It's the same as trying to compare which is better Larry Fitzgerald or Ed Reed.

 

[cardsfanmd]

How can you debate which is better Suggs or Dansby? For the last two years they haven't played the same position.

It's the same as trying to compare which is better Larry Fitzgerald or Ed Reed.

I agree, but I didn't interpret the original question as who was better, it was who would you rather have, ie what position is more vital for us right now.. You could debate Fitz vs Reed if you like (I would take Fitz because he is younger).

 

[Pariah]

But Suggs just isnt a pass rusher, he is excelent in coverage over the last two to three years.

Suggs isn't a pass rusher? He's a fantastic pass rusher.

 

[Savage58]

Suggs, pass rushers are the IT position in the NFL, look at the Giants. Coverage backers don't impact the game as much.

Suggs plays the position that is more important, and he's great at it.

/co-sign Suggs over Dansby

and I'll take a passrusher over a corner as well.

 

[CardLogic]

If Dansby had been left on the outside, OLB, it is my estimation that he would be as good or better than Suggs at getting to the QB (if that were his primary assignment, as it has been with Suggs). Based on that, not their current disparate positons, I would stick with Dansby.

 

[1DS]

Suggs.

Dansby is just playing for a contract right now (about time he decided to, tho!)

Agreed! My biggest fear with Dansby over the years is that he is somewhat of a loafer. I could easily see him tanking it after he cashes in.

 

[1DS]

Suggs isn't a pass rusher? He's a fantastic pass rusher.

He means Suggs isn't just a pass rusher, he has all around game.

 

[IAWarnerFan]

Again its isnt about being able to afford. We can afford both and Warner.

Its a matter of how much gauranteed money we will shell out in one offseason. Ask yourself this and consider we are trying emulate Pitt. concerning drafting and free agency. Would Pitt spend over 40 mill in gauranteed on two LB's in one offseason? No they wouldnt.

As for replacement, you do like any other good playoff team does, you plug and play. Bring in another guy, draft another guy, put in another guy who is already on the team.

$40 million over how many years?
I think having both would be great, but how much would that be per year to have both? What make you think that the Ravens wouldn't keep him and let someone else go?

I guess there's a chance he'd want to come here and if it didn't cost too much it might be a good move. He's in his prime and this would be the time to go after him.

 

[ThunderCard]

$40 million over how many years?
I think having both would be great, but how much would that be per year to have both? What make you think that the Ravens wouldn't keep him and let someone else go?

I guess there's a chance he'd want to come here and if it didn't cost too much it might be a good move. He's in his prime and this would be the time to go after him.

I believe we could do Dansby at 7.5 mil a year and Suggs at 8.5 mil a year for next year. Lets say Dansby 6 year @ 45 Mil / Suggs 6 year @ 50 Mil with both getting about 20-25 million guaranteed through there contracts. The Dansby deal would be better then Pace and would also attract Suggs. So I think you are talking 16 Million for both next year and we have cap space at 44 Million.

Dansby + 7.5 Million 09
Suggs + 8.5 Million 09
Warner + 7.5 Million 09
Wilson extension +1.5 million 09 It would place him at 6.5 Mil a year
Boldin extension + 4 Million 09 It would place him around 8 mil a year
JJ Airington +2.5 Million 09
Berry +2.5 Million 09
Spach +1 Million 09
E Brown +1 Million 09
R Brown +1 Million 09
Rookie Pool +3 Million 09

So 40 Million total which leaves 4 million still to go. Also this leaves Dockett out in the cold and lets A Smith leave. I like Antonio Smith, but in this scenario we are taking Suggs for his spot. One thing to note I feel like Smith will go onto the probowl down the road with some team. In addition we still might drop Chike and Edge for a additional 9.5 Million savings.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I believe we could do Dansby at 7.5 mil a year and Suggs at 8.5 mil a year for next year. Lets say Dansby 6 year @ 45 Mil / Suggs 6 year @ 50 Mil with both getting about 20-25 million guaranteed through there contracts. The Dansby deal would be better then Pace and would also attract Suggs. So I think you are talking 16 Million for both next year and we have cap space at 44 Million.

Dansby + 7.5 Million 09
Suggs + 8.5 Million 09
Warner + 7.5 Million 09
Wilson extension +1.5 million 09 It would place him at 6.5 Mil a year
Boldin extension + 4 Million 09 It would place him around 8 mil a year
JJ Airington +2.5 Million 09
Berry +2.5 Million 09
Spach +1 Million 09
E Brown +1 Million 09
R Brown +1 Million 09
Rookie Pool +3 Million 09

So 40 Million total which leaves 4 million still to go. Also this leaves Dockett out in the cold and lets A Smith leave. I like Antonio Smith, but in this scenario we are taking Suggs for his spot. One thing to note I feel like Smith will go onto the probowl down the road with some team. In addition we still might drop Chike and Edge for a additional 9.5 Million savings.

i like that, but there could be even more money/space available because i think Boldin will be traded and Spach probably won't be brought back. Who knows what will happpen with JJ? Also, i don't think A Smith will ever be a pro bowler. He's more a journeyman type DE to me.

 

[CardLogic]

I like Antonio Smith, but in this scenario we are taking Suggs for his spot.

Except, they don't play the same position. Suggs is a 3-4 OLB; Smith is a DE.

 

[Duckjake]

Again its isnt about being able to afford. We can afford both and Warner.

Its a matter of how much gauranteed money we will shell out in one offseason. Ask yourself this and consider we are trying emulate Pitt. concerning drafting and free agency. Would Pitt spend over 40 mill in gauranteed on two LB's in one offseason? No they wouldnt.

As for replacement, you do like any other good playoff team does, you plug and play. Bring in another guy, draft another guy, put in another guy who is already on the team.

Are you referring to the Steelers where 9 of their defensive starters have been with the team for at least 6 years and total 68 years of experience just with Pittsburgh? Their LBs that they turnover all the time? Farrior 7 years, Harrison 6 years, Foote 7 years.

The Cards are in the SuperBowl in no small part because they have the same situation. Veteran players who have been in Arizona for several years.

If we had a LB who had been with the Cards for 3-4 years or a first day draft pick with a year or two with the team who could step in for Dansby things would be different but we don't.

You win in the NFL by winning the turnover battle. The Cards have been turning over players too often for too long. They finally stopped and they started winning. Not a good idea to start doing it again.

 

[imaCafan]

Again, to reaffirm what has already been stated.......BOTH Suggs and Dansby. Sign our "core" and bring in Suggs to be part of the future core. We all love our Cards being in the Superbowl, right? Well, we keep the core in tact and add Suggs, man what a D we would have!!!! And we already have the O to go with it!!!! We will go from doormat to dominater, and it's all starting NOW!!!!

GO CARDS!!!!

 

[Shogun]

The Steelers draft linebackers, but they rarely see the field extensively their first year or so and already have established and talented starters. By the time they do start they know the system in and out. Which is why the "plug and play" works for them. We have nowhere near that depth or talent to pull that off, so for the time being we have to pay.

 

[Chopper0080]

All things equal, you take the pass rusher. Unfortunately, I don't believe that there is a way to guarantee that we get Suggs. So, the question for me is, do we not try and resign Dansby before he hits the open market, and instead bank of the fact that we can outbid the league for Suggs. Keep in mind that this includes the team that he just said should keep it's core of linebackers in the Ravens.

If I am an organization, I can't take this risk. If we want Suggs, we are going to have to pay both him and Dansby because we can't risk losing out on both. The only option that prevents this is in tagging Dansby again, which he won't like.