Star Trek Into Darkness (aka Star Trek XII)

[Superbone]

One word: Fringe.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I give Abrams a lot of credit. His TV properties I've seen (Alias & Lost) were good shows, snd I do like his movies, despite being critical of them.

Man...he really gets wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much credit for Lost. I don't care what has ever been said in magazines, anyone who knows people who actually worked on that show know how little he had to do with it after pilot...as in almost nothing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

One word: Fringe.

two more words:

Orci and Kreutzman. The creators/writers/showrunners of Fringe.

JJ is a very good idea man, but his own personal projects that he actually completely oversees/writes/directs have been decent popcorn and not much else.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think the whole "Abrams is a genius" thing started with published reports of Tom Cruise not taking "no" as a answer when it came to directing MI3. And his films do rake in the cash. So he has that going for him.

I also think it's a misnomer that his films rake in cash. MI3 is the lowest grossing Mission Impossible Movie, Star Trek Into Darkness actually made 30 million dollars LESS then it's origin story (which is pretty rare), even with inflation and 3D added in and Super 8 made...what? 100 million bucks? That's not exactly lighting the world on fire.

the TV shows he attaches his name to and EPs...now THOSE bring in cash by the truckloads, there's no doubt of that. Like you said, he's a pretty great idea generator, but I've still yet to see one thing he's done on his own as far as directing/writing, especially in features, that really shows a daring bit of originality or complete wow factor...probably a reason that in this day of huge blockbuster filmmaking that he hasn't had one film crack the 300 million dollar mark.

that will change no doubt with Star Wars in 2015.

 

[Superbone]

two more words:

Orci and Kreutzman. The creators/writers/showrunners of Fringe.

JJ is a very good idea man, but his own personal projects that he actually completely oversees/writes/directs have been decent popcorn and not much else.

Fair enough. I honestly have no idea what his level of involvement was with the show. I just know I loved the ride from beginning to the end.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't care what anybody says....he gets the right amount of credit IMO. He is one of the best young film makers in Hollywood and has knack for brilliant ideas. The last 2 Trek films were great. The last Mission Impossible movie was one of the most critical acclaimed and any shortfall at the box office had more to do with the public attitude towards Cruz and nothing to do with JJ.

 

[Stout]

So Abrams is the tit I have to blame for that stupid Lost pilot. Ha!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't care what anybody says....he gets the right amount of credit IMO. He is one of the best young film makers in Hollywood and has knack for brilliant ideas. The last 2 Trek films were great. The last Mission Impossible movie was one of the most critical acclaimed and any shortfall at the box office had more to do with the public attitude towards Cruz and nothing to do with JJ.

then why did MI4 do so much better then MI3? Cruise has just as many problems headlining feature films as he did then. The reason is that the film is FAR superior to the third entry.

And he does have a knack for brilliant ideas...but in order to get the credit JJ gets, you'd think he'd know how to execute those ideas as well, and I just don't see that.

 

[Covert Rain]

then why did MI4 do so much better then MI3? Cruise has just as many problems headlining feature films as he did then. The reason is that the film is FAR superior to the third entry.

And he does have a knack for brilliant ideas...but in order to get the credit JJ gets, you'd think he'd know how to execute those ideas as well, and I just don't see that.

I do acknowledge that MI4 was a better movie versus MI3 so it's not fair for me to insinuate that was not a factor. However, leading up to the release of MI3 there was speculation that Tom Cruise's recent antics would impact the box office of MI3. I know people who didn't go see the movie because they were sick of Tom Cruise by that time.

Leading up to the may release of 2006 fans had witnessed the couch incident, the interview (Brook Shields statement) etc.

Next came Lions for Lambs, Tropic Thunder (which he played a bit part that some called desperate), Valkyrie and Knight and Day. Lot's of people I know didn't go see those either for the same reason. You cannot discount the PR debacle that was Tom Cruise and the string of movies that followed. I am not saying that is the only factor but it was a big factor IMO. There are people today I know that refuse to go and see another Cruise movie.

Also, who says he can't execute an idea? That's ridiculous. There are plenty of things I am sure that he does behind the scenes of the projects he works on. Things that have everything to do with the execution of ideas. Now if you want to argue he is a better Producer/Director than Writer I wouldn't begrudge you that one bit. Also, you can't have it both ways. If you believe he really doesn't execute his ideas than you have to believe even though listed as a writer for MI3 he probably had very little to do with it. Directing on MI3 wasn't the problem with that film IMO.

I am by no means saying the guy can't do wrong. I thought Super 8 had a ton of potential but fell short for example. I am just saying there is unnecessary bagging going on about the guy which I simply don't get.

 

[Chaplin]

Next came Lions for Lambs, Tropic Thunder (which he played a bit part that some called desperate), Valkyrie and Knight and Day. Lot's of people I know didn't go see those either for the same reason. You cannot discount the PR debacle that was Tom Cruise and the string of movies that followed. I am not saying that is the only factor but it was a big factor IMO. There are people today I know that refuse to go and see another Cruise movie.

I know this isn't a thread about Tom Cruise, but what's wrong with a guy being happy? I think the couch incident is so ridiculously stupid to use as some excuse for him having problems.

The fact of the matter is that even though people didn't see a lot of those films you listed, they did it for petty and superficial reasons. And who said his part in Tropic Thunder was desperation? That's the first I heard of that, and he was fantastic in the movie.

I just think personal hatred from people that don't even know the guy is a ridiculous reason to not see his movies. I mean, I don't think Woody Allen is a stand-up guy, but I love his movies and he's a brilliant writer/director. Tom Cruise isn't the best actor in the world, but he consistently makes good movies--or at least, gives good if not great performances in pretty much all his movies.

As for JJ Abrams, he has a long way to go before he can even touch the respectability Tom Cruise brings to a project.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I know this isn't a thread about Tom Cruise, but what's wrong with a guy being happy? I think the couch incident is so ridiculously stupid to use as some excuse for him having problems.

I think Cruise coming off as a complete and utter ******* with the Matt Lauer interviews hurt him more then the couch thing. The couch thing just looked like an actor crying out for attention and being kind of a jackass...with a girl most people thought he was destined for divorce with (and was). The Lauer interview and his statements made within just made him look cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

The fact of the matter is that even though people didn't see a lot of those films you listed, they did it for petty and superficial reasons.

Not so sure about this either. Those movies, by and large, were mediocre (Valkyrie) to AWFUL (Lions for Lambs and Knight And Day). That's why people weren't going out in droves to see those movies, especially Lions For Lambs and Knight And Day. Valkyrie actually scratched 100 million domestic.

And who said his part in Tropic Thunder was desperation? That's the first I heard of that, and he was fantastic in the movie.

this I agree with. Cruise is actually an incredibly talented comedic actor, IMO.

I just think personal hatred from people that don't even know the guy is a ridiculous reason to not see his movies.

Do you really think people HATE Tom Cruise? I think some people are put off by his actions/words, but it's been proven that when he's in a very good movie, like MI4, people will go see the movie and when he's in stink-bombs they won't. He's just made more stink bombs then really good movies lately and I think his Box Office record reflects that. When he makes something mediocre or okay, the movie usually gets mediocre of okay results (Valkyrie/Jack Reacher), but I don't think Lions For Lambs or Knight And day suffered because of his personality. those movies were just drek.

I mean, I don't think Woody Allen is a stand-up guy, but I love his movies and he's a brilliant writer/director. Tom Cruise isn't the best actor in the world, but he consistently makes good movies--or at least, gives good if not great performances in pretty much all his movies.

As for JJ Abrams, he has a long way to go before he can even touch the respectability Tom Cruise brings to a project.

eh...Cruise's track record has been pretty spotty for the last decade. I wouldn't put either of those guys on a pedestal at this point.

 

[Chaplin]

eh...Cruise's track record has been pretty spotty for the last decade. I wouldn't put either of those guys on a pedestal at this point.

Did you see Jack Reacher? He was pretty damn good and elevated what could have been a standard action movie into something more. He surprised a lot of people with that movie because he played a character that in the books is not a 5'7" fireplug and made him believable.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Did you see Jack Reacher? He was pretty damn good and elevated what could have been a standard action movie into something more. He surprised a lot of people with that movie because he played a character that in the books is not a 5'7" fireplug and made him believable.

I did. I thought he was solid in it, but i dont think he really elevated it into something more. the movie was just okay IMO.

 

[Covert Rain]

I know this isn't a thread about Tom Cruise, but what's wrong with a guy being happy? I think the couch incident is so ridiculously stupid to use as some excuse for him having problems.

The fact of the matter is that even though people didn't see a lot of those films you listed, they did it for petty and superficial reasons. And who said his part in Tropic Thunder was desperation? That's the first I heard of that, and he was fantastic in the movie.

I didn't say a single thing about not wanting the guy to be happy. I thought the couch incident was stupid and I didn't really care about it. However, Cruise's antics during the interview, statements that followed and his pushy attitude on set about his religion were much more of an issue for me.

I also didn't say he took the part out of desperation (meaning he couldn't get another job). I think it was a targeted move on his part and his agent to show a different side of him because of all the bad publicity. I know some people who said it was a desperate act on his part to make him appear like he has a sense of humor and is not afraid to make fun of himself.

On a personal level, I loved it.

I just think personal hatred from people that don't even know the guy is a ridiculous reason to not see his movies. I mean, I don't think Woody Allen is a stand-up guy, but I love his movies and he's a brilliant writer/director. Tom Cruise isn't the best actor in the world, but he consistently makes good movies--or at least, gives good if not great performances in pretty much all his movies.

As for JJ Abrams, he has a long way to go before he can even touch the respectability Tom Cruise brings to a project.

I agree with you to a point. I don't think I would go out of my way to NOT see a person's movie if I thought the movie was good no matter who the person is on a personal level. I have actually met a bunch of stars and some were total pricks and others were incredibly down to earth.

Also, sorry I call complete B.S. on the respectability point on Abrams. He has a ton of it already.

 

[UncleChris]

I could care less what kind of a person TC is. He makes entertaining movies that for the very large part, I enjoy.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I could care less what kind of a person TC is. He makes entertaining movies that for the very large part, I enjoy.

There is a line for me. Crossing that line would sour me on that person and that would have a bearing on whether I watched a movie or not. For example, I wouldn't go and see a movie starring Michael Vick or Kobe Bryant or Ben Rapistburger. That's just my choice and not one that I would expect others to make.

I think Tom is a bit of a fruitcake and I really don't care for a lot of the things he does but he's nowhere close to that line for me. I think he's one of the best action stars we've seen over the past several decades especially when he's allowed to put a little personality into the role. A movie such as Night and Day might have been a weak film but it wasn't because of Tom, he was perfect in it.

Steve

 

[UncleChris]

There is a line for me. Crossing that line would sour me on that person and that would have a bearing on whether I watched a movie or not. For example, I wouldn't go and see a movie starring Michael Vick or Kobe Bryant or Ben Rapistburger. That's just my choice and not one that I would expect others to make.

I think Tom is a bit of a fruitcake and I really don't care for a lot of the things he does but he's nowhere close to that line for me. I think he's one of the best action stars we've seen over the past several decades especially when he's allowed to put a little personality into the role. A movie such as Night and Day might have been a weak film but it wasn't because of Tom, he was perfect in it.

Steve

I agree on a certain line, but there's very few who have crossed it for me.

I enjoyed Knight and Day.... it was a kooky, fun send-up on Bond style films.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There is a line for me. Crossing that line would sour me on that person and that would have a bearing on whether I watched a movie or not. For example, I wouldn't go and see a movie starring Michael Vick or Kobe Bryant or Ben Rapistburger. That's just my choice and not one that I would expect others to make.

I think Tom is a bit of a fruitcake and I really don't care for a lot of the things he does but he's nowhere close to that line for me. I think he's one of the best action stars we've seen over the past several decades especially when he's allowed to put a little personality into the role. A movie such as Night and Day might have been a weak film but it wasn't because of Tom, he was perfect in it.

Steve

Cruise was the only reason Knight And Day was even tolerable. I think he's a certified wack-job, but that being said, he's still a very good action star, with very good comic timing and a genuine presence on the screen. he just hasn't picked the greatest projects lately.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Back to the movie. I saw it a second time in the theater with my daughter a month and a half ago. I have to agree with cheese as it got even worse the second time around. I so wanted this movie to be great but it was just OK.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Back to the movie. I saw it a second time in the theater with my daughter a month and a half ago. I have to agree with cheese as it got even worse the second time around. I so wanted this movie to be great but it was just OK.

there were just things in the movie that went nowhere. the first half of the movie, Bones is constantly worried about health readings he's getting from Kirk...and then there's never any mention of it ever again. it's a small thing, but a weird one.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Back to the movie. I saw it a second time in the theater with my daughter a month and a half ago. I have to agree with cheese as it got even worse the second time around. I so wanted this movie to be great but it was just OK.

It would have been more re-watchable if Tom Cruise had been in it.

Liked it, didn't love it. Loved the first one. The biggest problem with the first one was the incredibly weak excuse for a bad guy and the understandably uninspired performance by the actor. The best thing about the second movie was the bad guy and the excellent performance by the guy who played the bad guy. Someone needs to tell JJ he doesn't have to choose between good bad guy or good movie.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

It would have been more re-watchable if Tom Cruise had been in it.

Liked it, didn't love it. Loved the first one. The biggest problem with the first one was the incredibly weak excuse for a bad guy and the understandably uninspired performance by the actor. The best thing about the second movie was the bad guy and the excellent performance by the guy who played the bad guy. Someone needs to tell JJ he doesn't have to choose between good bad guy or good movie.

Steve

yeah, I was thoroughly entertained by the first one, but the second one, was just...okay.

and the phone a friend thing with Old Spock at the end of it just completely took me out of the movie...that and just reversing the Kirk/Spock/Kahn of it all in the end. Spock's KHANNNNNN!!! just wasn't earned and felt so false to me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

yeah, I was thoroughly entertained by the first one, but the second one, was just...okay.

and the phone a friend thing with Old Spock at the end of it just completely took me out of the movie...that and just reversing the Kirk/Spock/Kahn of it all in the end. Spock's KHANNNNNN!!! just wasn't earned and felt so false to me.

Yeah, the Spock to Spock routine was lame and unnecessary but the agonizing "Khan" yell was way over the top. I didn't mind the role reversal when it made sense but a few of those things fell well short of sensical.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

I love the role reversal. I thought Kirk's situation and dragging out the emotion in Spock was more resonating to me because he is so reluctant to show emotion. The movie completely held up upon my 3rd viewing (which is when I tend to rip things apart). There were some things that annoyed me but the movie was still great.

If I could ask one thing, it would be that JJ tone it down with the lens effects. I know it's his signature but it was distracting during some scenes on the bridge. If people really had reflections on surfaces like that off the bridge I would be worried about being blinded at a critical moment. LOL.

P.S. Bones said he was getting weird readings from Kirk because they were worried about his emotional state. Not because he actually had anything wrong with him. I didn't expect anymore follow-up to that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

P.S. Bones said he was getting weird readings from Kirk because they were worried about his emotional state. Not because he actually had anything wrong with him. I didn't expect anymore follow-up to that.

that didn't seem to be the case at all to me.