Spurs @ Suns - 11-3-10, 7PM - FSAZ

[Vellasco]

"It is not that the Suns being 1-3 with losses to the 4-1 Blazers, the 5-0 Lakers and the 3-0 Spurs is cause for panic. But there are issues. Otherwise, Coach Alvin Gentry, GM Lance Blanks and owner Robert Sarver would not have been leaving a postgame meeting in Gentry's office at 11:20 p.m. after a 112-110 home loss to San Antonio."

I hope something will be done soon. (i hope its not related just send hedo to bench which is not a solution of this mess.)

 

[jagu]

I don't really see a "mess." Yea they are 1-3 but if you take a look at the games they lost.

Blazers = We were leading in the 4th and then gave up a huge run.
Lakers = Neck and neck till late in the 3rd.
Spurs = Lost by what two points?

We are competing.. I think there has to be a lineup change before we dig the hole too deep. Start Warrick and bench Turk is clearly the best way to get Nash effective, have some inside offense and open up the outside shooters more. And why isn't Goran getting more minutes? He clearly looks like he can be dominant when he is on the floor and Gentry needs to get him more time. Our reliability on Steve Nash alone will doom us. He is a great player but he has severe weaknesses which on a team with little defense will look worse.

It's time to pass the baton onto Dragic and the guy needs to get his game even higher.

 

[Vellasco]

I was refering Hedo trade for the mess. Probably Phoenix should have been the last club Hedo to choose after his terrible season. He made same mistake twice in two consecutive season and deserved to be insulted with less PT and to be benched (even last seat on the bench). He just picked the franchise without giving attention his role and messed his ascending career. Its Hedo's part, but its hard to figure out for me that why Suns made this trade. I just blame the GMless period of your front office. Otherwise who could think trading him while having may be the best play maker of all time and one potentially star pg near future on your hand. Plus, using him as PF at defense is no brainer move with my most gently words.

 

[jibikao]

Why isn't Dragic playing more? He should be playing at least 20mins per game IMO. He has shown that he can dominate from time to time and Suns needs him to get better.

Dragic shot 37% and Nash shot 36%.

Looks like Lopez hasn't been doing well either.

Maybe Dragic is playing less because coach needs to give Hedo and other new players more playing time to make decisions.


Warrick's game seems to fit Nash's way better than Hedo's.

 

[Catlover]

I don't really see a "mess." Yea they are 1-3 but if you take a look at the games they lost.

Blazers = We were leading in the 4th and then gave up a huge run.
Lakers = Neck and neck till late in the 3rd.
Spurs = Lost by what two points?

We are competing.. I think there has to be a lineup change before we dig the hole too deep. Start Warrick and bench Turk is clearly the best way to get Nash effective, have some inside offense and open up the outside shooters more. And why isn't Goran getting more minutes? He clearly looks like he can be dominant when he is on the floor and Gentry needs to get him more time. Our reliability on Steve Nash alone will doom us. He is a great player but he has severe weaknesses which on a team with little defense will look worse.

It's time to pass the baton onto Dragic and the guy needs to get his game even higher.

I don't think our losses are anything to get worked up about but our schedule is about to get even tougher. We only have one win and that came against a Utah team that was playing in the trail game of a back to back. And our loss last night was to an old team that was playing the 2nd of a B2B. This doesn't bode well for our immediate future. After 30 games we could well be looking at one of the worst records in the NBA.

It's time to not just start Goran but to give him the lions share of minutes at the point. Limit Nash to 20 - 25 minutes and rest him even more on back to back nights. I'd start Dragic, JR, Hedo, Warrick and Lopez and see if there's any room for Hedo with this team. If not, move him now and don't wait for the mid-season trading period because our hole will probably be too deep by then.

 

[AfroSuns]

I don't really see a "mess." Yea they are 1-3 but if you take a look at the games they lost.

Blazers = We were leading in the 4th and then gave up a huge run.
Lakers = Neck and neck till late in the 3rd.
Spurs = Lost by what two points?

Apart from Lakers the rest are just excuses, i cant wait till we play crappy teams and we lose, then it will be interesting to see what happens. You can be sure the FO will start getting desperate.

We are competing.. I think there has to be a lineup change before we dig the hole too deep. Start Warrick and bench Turk is clearly the best way to get Nash effective, have some inside offense and open up the outside shooters more. And why isn't Goran getting more minutes? He clearly looks like he can be dominant when he is on the floor and Gentry needs to get him more time. Our reliability on Steve Nash alone will doom us. He is a great player but he has severe weaknesses which on a team with little defense will look worse.

It's time to pass the baton onto Dragic and the guy needs to get his game even higher.

Yes we are competing but it is the final minutes that is worrisome, down the stretch we have one less finisher, Opposing team just needs to D up on Nash and JRich and just like that our chances of making a bucket is drastically reduced.
I think Warrick is the best pick-n-roll player of the bunch but he is not a big player and by no means an Amare. He can elevate but doing it over bigger player with length is giving him fits and he needs to get better at avoiding that offensive foul. I agree that Goran needs to get more minutes, Dudley should be getting more too but by no means are they ready to take the "baton"
They do need to try starting Warrick in Hedo's place, i doubt moving hedo to the bench would help him much because it is becoming apparent that he is having a shooting slump than anything. Hopefully his strokes returns and the Suns don't have to deal with their own "Jefferson" this season

 

[Absolute Zero]

I think Nash would be more effective and less tired if Gentry gave some of his minutes to Dragic. Nash is playing tired and Dragic is only getting what, 15 minutes a game?

 

[Vellasco]

[

They do need to try starting Warrick in Hedo's place, i doubt moving hedo to the bench would help him much because it is becoming apparent that he is having a shooting slump than anything. Hopefully his strokes returns and the Suns don't have to deal with their own "Jefferson" this season

Lets say he shoots with %50, ok make it %60 for exaggeration, he is touching the ball 10 times and taking 7 shoots for every game, that makes him 8 points/ game player. Are you going to satisfy with this? freaking 10 mil/year for this...

He ended up with 0 (zero, a big fat ZERO) assist at last game. This is his first time in his career.

Plain and simple: He is not fitting in your system , no matter what position or unit you use him.

Phoenix will be his grave if they insist on him to stay with Suns.

 

[Absolute Zero]

As far as starting Warrick, I am all for it. My only concern is that would put Hedo and Frye on the Court at the same time, which seems like a bad idea. Two big guys standing around the perimeter.

 

[AfroSuns]

[

Lets say he shoots with %50, ok make it %60 for exaggeration, he is touching the ball 10 times and taking 7 shoots for every game, that makes him 8 points/ game player. Are you going to satisfy with this? freaking 10 mil/year for this...

He ended up with 0 (zero, a big fat ZERO) assist at last game. This is his first time in his career.

Plain and simple: He is not fitting in your system , no matter what position or unit you use him.

Phoenix will be his grave if they insist on him to stay with Suns.

I think you are
I wont be surprised if 99% of Suns fans want Hedo gone. that is not the point. Most were worried with his signing and are now convinced it is a mistake but until then he has to play and adjustments have to be made with hope that things turn around.
If only trading him were that easy...

 

[The Man In Black]

Greeting Suns Fans.

I actually think your team can be a playoff team. The offensive cohesion that was so prevalent between Stat and Nash can't be replaced with just Warrick. There needs to be more BALANCED scoring. Ultimately, if it hadn't have been for Richard Jefferson going nuclear from the corner, I think Silver & Black loses this game. Both teams have to improve, I just think that the Spurs have some pieces that are easier to integrate or are benefiting from another year and training camp.

 

[Vellasco]

I think you are
I wont be surprised if 99% of Suns fans want Hedo gone. that is not the point. Most were worried with his signing and are now convinced it is a mistake but until then he has to play and adjustments have to be made with hope that things turn around.
If only trading him were that easy...

%99 of his home country fans were sure this signing going to sink him to grave too. What else we could do aside from slapping the dead horse. There were %1 chance and that was the adjustments which Gentry can take for him at the preseason. If you give to a player 2nd most contract, those adjustments should have been on top tier of your list. When you look at circumstances, all the things Gentry did was requesting from hedo to adjust his game to PF position at defense and it made him suns fans favorite!!! Now as all the hopes have gone, you just have to do that trade even if its not easy.

 

[elindholm]

Ultimately, if it hadn't have been for Richard Jefferson going nuclear from the corner, I think Silver & Black loses this game.

Or Nash shooting 4-for-117, or whatever it was. Yes, the Suns can definitely play better, but the Spurs deserved to win last night's game. They were due to beat the Suns eventually, of course.

 

[Chaplin]

%99 of his home country fans were sure this signing going to sink him to grave too. What else we could do aside from slapping the dead horse. There were %1 chance and that was the adjustments which Gentry can take for him at the preseason. If you give to a player 2nd most contract, those adjustments should have been on top tier of your list. When you look at circumstances, all the things Gentry did was requesting from hedo to adjust his game to PF position at defense and it made him suns fans favorite!!! Now as all the hopes have gone, you just have to do that trade even if its not easy.

You're a real jeckyll and hyde, aren't you? When he first got here you were excited like schoolkid. Now 99% of his home country are sure this was a bad move? I can understand changing your mind, but this is like a completely different personality.

 

[Vellasco]

You're a real jeckyll and hyde, aren't you? When he first got here you were excited like schoolkid. Now 99% of his home country are sure this was a bad move? I can understand changing your mind, but this is like a completely different personality.

Not really, chap. Schoolkid analogy seems a bit exaggeration but yep i must admit it, i was excited a little but that was not due to my expectation from Hedo this year, that was due to Suns basketball. I was tired to see give the ball Bosh and wait his jumpers basketball last year. I'm still having fun with the style of basketball suns currently playing but Hedo's situation is right there where everybodies were thinking. Im where i was before, nothing changed. There were hopes before preseason but not too much. What i have seen so far is not encouraging, chap. Im not happy with coming here and writing identical posts. they are kinda my gas release cuz im not happy what i see as a follower of him. sorry for that.

Btw, i saw you while trying to support hedo recently in this board and its deserving big applauds , showing nices of you.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, I support him because I think his skill set can work on this team. But I absolutely think Gentry isn't using him correctly. Yes, part of it is Hedo's laziness and unwillingness to be aggressive, but he's not Amare, you can't just have him stand there waiting for Steve Nash to do something. He has to be proactive, which is why coming off the bench might be best for him. I think he'd mesh with Goran much better than Steve.

We're paying him all that money, I at least want us to put him in the position to be able to earn it. Right now, he isn't.

 

[Mainstreet]

Just thinking about Turkoglu, although it's way too early to there, but I will anyway.

I'm willing to give Turkoglu time to mesh with the Suns. However, if Turkoglu does not work out for the Suns perhaps he might be interested in playing in Europe. Maybe that's where his heart is and I doubt another NBA team would be interested in him. Perhaps the Suns could contribute to a partial buyout so he could sign with a European team for less money. I know this is a wishful thinking (if things turn sour in Phoenix like in Toronto) but Turloglu did give up money to come to the Suns. I'm worrying about chemistry issues if Turkoglu does not eventually fit with the Suns.

 

[Vellasco]

Well, I support him because I think his skill set can work on this team. But I absolutely think Gentry isn't using him correctly. Yes, part of it is Hedo's laziness and unwillingness to be aggressive, but he's not Amare, you can't just have him stand there waiting for Steve Nash to do something. He has to be proactive, which is why coming off the bench might be best for him. I think he'd mesh with Goran much better than Steve.

We're paying him all that money, I at least want us to put him in the position to be able to earn it. Right now, he isn't.

You call it "laziness and unwillingness to be aggressive", i call it "out of rhythm he got used to". The guy simply do not know what to do there atm. He accustomed to move the ball every time in Orlando and he touched the ball in every offensive moves while he was playing there and it kept him play with hot hands and let him focus on his play (esp at 4th quarters). Contrarily, although both last year Raptors and Suns are playing different than eachothers, there is one common thing out there which failed, they both wanted him to create space for others with his long shooting ability when he was noticed by the play maker and be a perimeter guy with his aggressiveness! by driving to the rim which he is decent guy for that role. However they did not request him the things what he excels: P'n Rolls and facilitator role. Those are the things which make him 10 mil/year guy. Other than that he will be always underachiever in fans eyes.

I think both Nash and Goran are having same mentality and style which is very normal under this conditions cuz this is exactly what Gentry wants them to do, hey, this is Suns Basketball, isn't it?. They are both at same level at ball dominance and need "Roll" partners to be effective, just like Hedo. The role written for Hedo will be always tight for his body of his skill set and will be underachiever in Suns system.

 

[Vellasco]

Just thinking about Turkoglu, although it's way too early to there, but I will anyway.

I'm willing to give Turkoglu time to mesh with the Suns. However, if Turkoglu does not work out for the Suns perhaps he might be interested in playing in Europe. Maybe that's where his heart is and I doubt another NBA team would be interested in him. Perhaps the Suns could contribute to a partial buyout so he could sign with a European team for less money. I know this is a wishful thinking (if things turn sour in Phoenix like in Toronto) but Turloglu did give up money to come to the Suns. I'm worrying about chemistry issues if Turkoglu does not eventually fit with the Suns.

Orlando is needing him for elite clubs fight and Hedo really is needing Stan Van Gundy to resuscitate his career again. It was definitely bad move by both parties. They shoulnt have parted away a year ago.

 

[Errntknght]

If Orlando would take him back, we surely should accommodate them. They'd probably give up Pietrus very gladly but would they send someone worthwhile? Like Gortat or Bass?

 

[elindholm]

If Orlando would take him back, we surely should accommodate them. They'd probably give up Pietrus very gladly but would they send someone worthwhile? Like Gortat or Bass?

I doubt it, but I agree that if the Magic want him back, the Suns should be as flexible as they can within reason. For example, a deal might be Turkoglu and Jason Richardson for Carter, Quentin Richardson, and the Magic's assortment of small garbage contracts in Jason Williams/Malik Allen/Daniel Orton. It's pretty much a pure salary dump for the Suns, since QRichardson figures to be injured for most of the duration of his contract, but it would enable Orlando to move out Carter (who is apparently a bad fit) and improve their current year's team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I doubt it, but I agree that if the Magic want him back, the Suns should be as flexible as they can within reason. For example, a deal might be Turkoglu and Jason Richardson for Carter, Quentin Richardson, and the Magic's assortment of small garbage contracts in Jason Williams/Malik Allen/Daniel Orton. It's pretty much a pure salary dump for the Suns, since QRichardson figures to be injured for most of the duration of his contract, but it would enable Orlando to move out Carter (who is apparently a bad fit) and improve their current year's team.

I agree with what you are saying but this would be a lopsided trade in favor of the Magic. JRich is a valuable commodity and so would Turkoglu if he fit there again.

 

[Vellasco]

There is a team option on Carter's contract next year. Suns might have over 20 mil cap space next year with this trade, though do not know where to spend considering new block out situation and will be a few stars out there as free agency.

 

[Mainstreet]

There is a team option on Carter's contract next year. Suns might have over 20 mil cap space next year with this trade, though do not know where to spend considering new block out situation and will be a few stars out there as free agency.

The link below is a good read, that Hedo and the Suns are intent on making the situation work. I thought you might like to read it.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...01104phoenix-suns-hedo-turkoglu-marriage.html

 

[Vellasco]

I saw this scenario before, it looks to me their last desperate moves like a fish with a hook at its mouth.