SI Rick Reilly brutal hatchet job

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
MadCardDisease said:
Not really, SDS is Bush league compared to any other NFL stadium. Now in about a year all of this stadium talk will be the exact opposite!


ok... but think about it... why would Pat say SDS is bush league when he was a CARD even though he spent years before there as a SUN DEVIL?? :shrug: seems a little wierd to me. But I can't say he didn't say it... I just would have left that "quote" out of the article. I'm sure he could have gotten some better quotes from some more vocal ex-cards (ie Si ME on )
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,729
Reaction score
52,789
Location
SoCal
clif said:
I know he is quoting Gedney, but my point is that the whole quote could have been left out and he would have made his point ( however meaningless). I just have a problem with a second hand quote from someone who is no longer hear to admit or deny he ever said it. In every interaction that I have seen or heard of from Pat.. he always seemed to have high regards for MR B, so to throw this in kinda smacks that in the face. Who knows he could have said it, but he can't say one way or the other now.


granted hearsay is hearsay, but why would gedney lie about that? i mean, he's always seemed to be a stand-up guy and he's still around to refute that if it's wrong.
 

JPlay

JPlay
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Posts
1,211
Reaction score
0
You can blame a lot of the problems with the current Cardinals on the stadium and coaches that they've brought in here.

I believe if the Cards had a stadium there would be much more fan support even if the team sucked. It's just too damn hot to sit out there in the summer, especially for the casual fan.

If the Cards would have pony'd up for a quality Coach a long time ago, they might have gotten much more production out of their draft picks and not had a long line of busts.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,729
Reaction score
52,789
Location
SoCal
clif said:
ok... but think about it... why would Pat say SDS is bush league when he was a CARD even though he spent years before there as a SUN DEVIL?? :shrug: seems a little wierd to me. But I can't say he didn't say it... I just would have left that "quote" out of the article. I'm sure he could have gotten some better quotes from some more vocal ex-cards (ie Si ME on )


first of all i'll bet he said it. no journalist worth his salt is gonna quote a dead guy who's revered incorrectly. also gedney could refute if it's wrong. in addition tilly had travelled to other stadiums in his pro career, and let's be honest, for the pro game sds WAS bush league. finally, a quote from a hero (tilly) will carry a lot more force than a quote from a mouthy idiot (rice). all of it makes perfect sense from a selling mags standpoint. y'all are too sensitive.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,729
Reaction score
52,789
Location
SoCal
JPlay said:
You can blame a lot of the problems with the current Cardinals on the stadium and coaches that they've brought in here.

I believe if the Cards had a stadium there would be much more fan support even if the team sucked. It's just too damn hot to sit out there in the summer, especially for the casual fan.

If the Cards would have pony'd up for a quality Coach a long time ago, they might have gotten much more production out of their draft picks and not had a long line of busts.


not sure i agree with that. games in miami are pretty gross early in the season. games in chicago, green bay, nyc, etc. are pretty unbearable in december. the stadium gives people a good excuse as an "out," but i don't think that argument really holds much water. they just haven't been putting a good product on the field. that's it.
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
Ouchie-Z-Clown said:
first of all i'll bet he said it. no journalist worth his salt is gonna quote a dead guy who's revered incorrectly. also gedney could refute if it's wrong. in addition tilly had travelled to other stadiums in his pro career, and let's be honest, for the pro game sds WAS bush league. finally, a quote from a hero (tilly) will carry a lot more force than a quote from a mouthy idiot (rice). all of it makes perfect sense from a selling mags standpoint. y'all are too sensitive.


Again I won't argue that SDS is a piece of crap. I just don't get a good feeling about the hearsay. Oh well... no point is arguing about it.
 

Reddog

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
2,807
Reaction score
323
Location
Scottsdale
clif said:
Anybody else have a problem with the supposed Pat Tillman comment? I mean who is to say that he actually did say that... since he is not here to refute it. His piece would have been ok without it.

That was the one point that struck me as well. This is a guy really looking to hurt the franchise. He takes the one guy who is a National Treasure and suggests he didn't like the organization. Well he resigned with the team when he didn't have to so I think using Pat just reinforced the obvious, Reilly has it out for the Bidwills.

The Tillman quote was totally lame given there is no context for the comment. Was he talking about the music selection, the fans, the stadium? Who knows but thats not the point. The point is this guy crossed the line and exposed the fact that as good of a writer as he is, he can't effectively or credibly separate his emotions enough to hide his sour grapes.

The other thing that works against him is the timing. Everyone is talking about the franchise making great strides. Coming out with this now makes him look even more like an emotional whack job. I think this article is a couple years too late.
 

40yearfan

DEFENSE!!!!
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Posts
35,007
Reaction score
432
Location
Phoenix, AZ.
Reddog said:
That was the one point that struck me as well. This is a guy really looking to hurt the franchise. He takes the one guy who is a National Treasure and suggests he didn't like the organization. Well he resigned with the team when he didn't have to so I think using Pat just reinforced the obvious, Reilly has it out for the Bidwills.

The Tillman quote was totally lame given there is no context for the comment. Was he talking about the music selection, the fans, the stadium? Who knows but thats not the point. The point is this guy crossed the line and exposed the fact that as good of a writer as he is, he can't effectively or credibly separate his emotions enough to hide his sour grapes.

The other thing that works against him is the timing. Everyone is talking about the franchise making great strides. Coming out with this now makes him look even more like an emotional whack job. I think this article is a couple years too late.

:thumbup:
 

rfayhallock

Newbie
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Posts
22
Reaction score
0
Location
Dewey, az
Right on thee money.

The man says what we all know to be true.

"I am one bad ass ex criminal prosecutor." Give us a break.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,626
Reaction score
6,117
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
I don't see how this is a hatchet job. Reilly is simply pointing out how much Cardinal ownership has sucked over the years, which we all know to be the truth. Mike Bidwill may be a step up from the old man as far as spending goes, but he has yet to put a winning product on the field either so I don't see why everyone is jumping in his defense.
 
Last edited:

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
36,985
Reaction score
21,574
rfayhallock said:
The man says what we all know to be true.

It's true, but it's only part of the truth.

He mentions the thing about "one jock strap, etc...." But, he doesn't mention the team had hired a bunch of masseues and nutritionists for the players about three years ago. One of the first thing Green did was run them off because he didn't think the players should be pampered. He makes the Tillman quote, but doesn't mention after this quote, Tillman turned down a bigger offer from the Rams to come back here.

The truth also is, the team has finally tried to be a real NFL team the last two or three seasons. The last major incident of the "same old, Cards" was the Bryant holdout over the injury waiver for minicamp. Since then, they've spent money on free agents, extended players, given modern contracts to their rookies, upgraded their facilities and spent big money on a coach.

I'm not really attacking what he said. It's true the Bidwills have been the worst owners in the NFL. Heck, maybe in all of sports if it wasn't for Donald Sterling. Winning is how you are judged in pro sports, and they haven't done that yet. So, criticism is valid and fine. But this piece is so skewed, it does seem to have the smell of a personal vendetta about it.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,807
Reaction score
61,725
I don't see this as a hatchet job, but I do see it as somewhat unnecessary. Articles like this are old news - doesn't Reilly have anything else interesting to write about besides something that's been said ad naseum for decades?
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Posts
53,873
Reaction score
19,664
Location
CA
cheesebeef said:
I don't see this as a hatchet job, but I do see it as somewhat unnecessary. Articles like this are old news - doesn't Reilly have anything else interesting to write about besides something that's been said ad naseum for decades?

That --in and of itself-- makes it a hatchet job IMO.
 

Cardsmasochist

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Posts
4,111
Reaction score
4,970
Location
Downtown Phoenix
This is the part of the article that scares me....

CardsGuy said:
Welcome to Bidwillville. “Michael Bidwill is a miserable human being,” a former Cards front-office employee says of the team’s 40-year-old vice president and general counsel. “The old man isn’t so bad. It’s the son nobody in the building can stand.”
*
Even eternally sunny Fiesta Bowl president and CEO John Junker says working with Michael “has had its challenges.”
*
Michael objects. “If people perceive me to be combative, I don’t mean to be,” he says. “Maybe my style is a little tough. But remember my background: I used to be a federal prosecutor [specializing in homicides].”


I thought that Bill Bidwill Sr. was the problem with the franchise i.e. being too cheap, etc. So I was hoping in a few years he would pass the torch onto his son, Michael, and we would see a turn around. Frankly, I was giving Michael credit for the hiring of Denny Green and all the great moves we have made since Green has been here.

I hope Michael isn't really a miserable person like the article accuses him of being. They make him sound like a cheap jerk. If this is true, will the Cards have a chance to build a winner if the owners (or their heirs) alienate both management and the players?
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,626
Reaction score
6,117
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
I could really care less if Mike Bidwill is the a-hole many around town accuse him of as long as he puts a winning product on the field. It's not like I want the guy to date my sister, I want him to win football games and if the cost of that is douchebag Bickley's hurt feelings, then you can put me in Mike's corner. However, since he hasn't won crap I can't jump on his bandwagon quite yet.
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
36,985
Reaction score
21,574
Cardsmasochist said:
I thought that Bill Bidwill Sr. was the problem with the franchise i.e. being too cheap, etc. So I was hoping in a few years he would pass the torch onto his son, Michael, and we would see a turn around. Frankly, I was giving Michael credit for the hiring of Denny Green and all the great moves we have made since Green has been here.

I hope Michael isn't really a miserable person like the article accuses him of being. They make him sound like a cheap jerk. If this is true, will the Cards have a chance to build a winner if the owners (or their heirs) alienate both management and the players?

If you look at his quotes about the cheap, shoddy treatment of players, the most recent was Gedney who was cut in 99. The stuff about the rookies was all in the past tense because they don't do that anymore. But, if he said that, he wouldn't be able to label Mike as cheap as his Dad would he?

At least the team has made efforts to make the players happier the last few years. But winning is all that matters. Kraft is every bit as cutthroat as Mike Bidwill, probably more so. No one cares though when you've got rings.
 

azsouthendzone

ASFN Addict
Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Posts
5,620
Reaction score
1,322
That is a bad article by a guy who obviously has a personal issue with the organization. The Pat Tillman quote is disturbing in the fact that Reilly would think it would be appropriate to print that, even if true, which I can say I really can't believe it is. Tillman turned down big money from STL to be here and even had dinner with the Bidwill's when they played SEA in 2003. The point of teh article is to bash the Bidwill's and if Pat said that I bet he was referring to Phoenix's BS fan base than the owners. Either way, putting those words in the mouth of a fallen hero is disgusting and Rick Reilly should be ripped coast to coast for it.
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
Cards prepare to offer 'luxury lofts' in new stadium

I see that I was not the only one who had a problem with the Tillman statement. That was my main beef. It justs goes against everything that we have heard of Pat.. whether true or untrue.

My other point after thinking about it is the lack of balance. Some have stated it but the piece gives the Bidwills ZERO credit for at least trying to get away from their horrible past. We all know the history... but I think we all have high hopes for the future.


What gets me too is the apparent lack of understanding of how much a stadium that the team can truly call its own has played into the piss poor performance on the field. It is all about economics, and the Cards have not had ENOUGH of it to be successful.


Just so happens that this guy has a clue:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cards prepare to offer 'luxury lofts' in new stadium


Craig Harris
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 27, 2005 05:20 PM

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]When the Arizona Cardinals move into their new stadium next year in Glendale, there will be no "luxury suites" for deep-pocketed fans who want a high-class National Football League experience.

Instead, there will be luxury lofts.

While fans won't be able to sleep there, the Cardinals believe they will be so upscale and spacious that fans will want to come to games early and linger a little later. They also hope to bolster their profits in a very competitive professional sports market. [/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]In addition to providing comfort to fans, the 88 lofts which can expand to 120 in the future, are a key component to the team's financial success because the Cardinals retain nearly all the income generated from them. They will cost between $65,000 to $125,000 per season, a significant jump from the up to 50 suites the team leases at Sun Devil Stadium for $50,000 to $75,000.

One of the ways for a NFL team to enhance the bottom line is through luxury suites, or in the Cardinals case, lofts. Current NFL rules call for franchises to share ticket revenue among all the teams, but most luxury suite income is exempt from league revenue sharing. Teams, like the Washington Redskins, with newer stadiums and upscale suites have been able to make more money, which can be spent on better talent on the field.

The Cardinals decision to alter the name of private rooms to watch a football game might sound like a nuance, it's the latest change in a series of cultural shifts for the Cardinals, one of the poorer NFL teams and long-time losers on the field who have had trouble filling Sun Devil Stadium.

In the last two years, the Cardinals have hired a new head coach, changed uniforms and reconfigured its lineup as they hope to field a winning team this fall and generate excitement before they move into Cardinals Stadium in 2006.

The Cardinals have quietly marketed the lofts to current suite holders during the last few weeks with a model at the team's Tempe training headquarters. The team declined to say how many have been sold. Michael Bidwill, the team's vice president and general counsel, said the Cardinals put the most modern technology in their lofts because of the intense competition for luxury suites among the Valley's four professional sports teams.

But adding more suites to the market could push overall prices down.

"This size market is the most competitive of any in the United States, and we needed to set ourselves apart and make sure we have the best amenities," Bidwill said. "What we wanted to do was create a suite product that really complimented the stadium . . . We want to give our stadium loft customers the ultimate fan experience, and this will do it."

The lofts, which Bidwill said are up to 50 percent larger than the suites at Sun Devil Stadium, will feature soft cork flooring, three seats around a table, four swivel-bar seats and 12 red leather stadium seats with individual cup holders and side tables. Each loft also will have four TVs, which can play up to four different NFL games on Sundays, with three of those plasma screens mounted against a wall and one TV hanging just outside the loft.

Each loft will be decorated in team colors _ red, black, white and gold _ and the main light fixture will hang from the ceiling and resemble the outside of the new retractable-roof stadium, which also will have a retractable field. There also will be a chalkboard, where the team could draw up a "play of the week," Bidwill said.

Small individual lockers also will be in each loft to secure personal belongings and each will have a large bathroom with railings for those in wheelchairs. Each loft also will have two telephones, including an Internet protocol phone with a liquid-crystal-display screen. Fans can use the phones as they would use touch-screen kiosks, to order goods from the team shop, check scores or even keep track of fantasy-football teams.

Along with Cardinals Stadium, the Valley is home to Bank One Ballpark, America West Arena, Glendale Arena, Phoenix International Raceway, and Sun Devil Stadium. Each of those facilities has been relatively successful in selling most of its inventory, despite metro-Phoenix having few large corporations that typically spend money on luxury suites.

At AWA, the Phoenix Suns have leased 84 of their 88 suites for the upcoming season, while the Phoenix Coyotes say they have a majority of their 89 suites sold at Glendale Arena. The Coyotes declined to disclose specific figures.

Dave Groff, senior vice president of corporate and suite sales for the Coyotes, said he expects suite sales to pick up now that the hockey lockout has ended.

The Arizona Diamondbacks, meanwhile, have 63 of their 76 suites sold. Suite sales at AWA and Glendale Arena also include admission to concerts and family shows at those facilities.

Suns President Rick Welts said although the team has been successful in selling most of its inventory, he believes the Suns could charge up to 25 percent more if the market were not so saturated.

"It's just a factor of the competition and the number of suite inventory," Welts said. "There is too much for this market . . . .There is a lot of business to win with four (major) teams have different stadiums and arenas."
[/font]
 

CardShark

DEAL WITH IT!
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Posts
2,584
Reaction score
0
Location
Florence, Arizona
Didn't he come out to do an article on the Cards as they are now? It sounds nothing like what's taking shape here in the desert. It's just rehashing history. The fact that Michael Bidwill has only been in control of the team for the last few years should put a cap on how far back the article focuses. It's a different team. Anyone that can't see the transformation going on here has no business writing articles about it for a major publication. It doesn't mention any of the improvements. He is extremely bitter about something. Maybe he lives in St. Louis.

As far as Tillman saying that, I can believe it. He was very outspoken. Playing that music during warmups was bush league. Doesn't mean he was saying it about the Cards, more likely the people running the stadium, who, if I'm not mistaken, were ASU employees.
 

seesred

Registered User
Joined
Jul 15, 2002
Posts
5,364
Reaction score
28
Location
section 8 row 10
I don't have a problem with the guys opinion. What I do have a real problem with is the unfair treatment for the current situation. Yes in the past mistakes were made. But look at where we are at today. They tried the Buddy Ryans, they gave away control and the man killed them. The Bidwills give a lot back to our valley. If Micheal is tough they hate him, if he would be soft they hate it, cheap they hate it. They weren't cheap with Jake and they got castrated for giving him to much money. The other thing as like everyone else has said where does this guy get off talking about Pat Tillman in any way, shape or form. Pat resigned with the Cards. Pat left a Cardinal and Died an American Hero. There is nothing anyone on this board can say that will make this acceptable regardless in what way he meant it. I don't hate anyone. I wish the Cardinals weere the only thing wrong with this world. But to hate so bad as this guy does don't make any sence.

Since 1945 the owners of the Chicago Cubs have won nothing. Why are we the worst? Why are we singled out as if ther owners played the game? When was the last time the Saints won the super bowl? Why did the L.A. teams leave? Why is it that some teams win and some teams lose? For us according to this pierce of turd it's a man named Bidwill. Enough said.

GBR
40
Think Playoffs
 

Buckybird

Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
Posts
25,229
Reaction score
6,085
Location
Dallas, TX
There are 2 reasons for the apparent turn around: Michael B. and Denny,
plain and simple. Michael has had a lot to do with this by getting Mr. B to
spend money on players and getting our long awaited stadium. If he is indeed
a "snake in the grass" as these people believe, we will eventually see this
whether it is after the stadium is done or 5-10 years down the road. In my
opinion he has done a great job so far, doing everything he has said he and the team would accomplish. NOW IT IS TIME TO SHOW UP ON SUNDAY and
kick some a$$. Times are a changing!!!

New :newcards: , new attitude
 

cardsunsfan

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Apr 25, 2003
Posts
4,735
Reaction score
162
Location
Arizona
I think he was too one sides and I think it's a bad time for it because I think he'll look a little silly after this yr.. he said both the Bidwill's screwed up the franchise and I think that's going to be proven not to be true...

I also agree that Glendale (well at least AZ) is footing two thirds of the bill..yeah we're getting it from people buying rental cars but we could have used that same type of tax for something else..it's still revenue we could use....
 

Dan H

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Posts
4,986
Reaction score
3,367
Location
Circle City, IN
Just out of curiosity, was the shoe/jockstrap thing true?

And if so, is it different now?

I don't see why a guy making a couple hundred grand a year would complain about having to buy clothes for work though . . . and don't most of them get comp'ed cleats and gear from Reebok, Nike, UnderArmor, etc.?
 

Jersey Girl

Stand down
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2002
Posts
32,380
Reaction score
6,140
Location
Super Scottsdale
CardShark said:
As far as Tillman saying that, I can believe it. He was very outspoken. Playing that music during warmups was bush league. Doesn't mean he was saying it about the Cards, more likely the people running the stadium, who, if I'm not mistaken, were ASU employees.

Well, that's what I was thinking. I'm no athlete, but I think if I was warming up to some smooth, easy-listening jazz, well, I'd have some things to say about that, too!

Reilly's tone is always a little harsh, or sentimental if he's writing about a "feel good" story. And obviously the story is gonna be one-sided because his point isn't "they did this bad stuff before but, gee, look at all the great stuff they're doing now!" His point is "geesh, look at this crap that's happened!" I agree with the other posters that said when things actually do turn around for the Cards (meaning they start winning consistently) things will change.

You know, I'm not totally surprised that this article appeared. Whether Reilly has a beef with the Cards or not, well, who cares? The Cards have been getting some decent press lately and everyone is expecting them to do very well this year and, hell, they haven't even played a preseason game yet. I dunno. I'm not all that bothered by the article.

My only beef with the story is that Reilly portrays the Bidwills as majorly cheap, which I suppose is accurate when it comes to football and past contracts, facilities, etc (compared to other teams anyway). But, from everything I've heard, the organization is very generous when it comes to charities and whatnot.
 

blindseyed

I'm saying you ARE stuck in Wichita
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Posts
7,427
Reaction score
4,585
Location
Verrado
Dan H said:
Just out of curiosity, was the shoe/jockstrap thing true?

And if so, is it different now?

I don't see why a guy making a couple hundred grand a year would complain about having to buy clothes for work though . . . and don't most of them get comp'ed cleats and gear from Reebok, Nike, UnderArmor, etc.?

A few ex-Cards said things like that including Aeneas Williams
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
538,108
Posts
5,276,282
Members
6,277
Latest member
jdndndn
Top