Should the Suns match a max contract offer for Bledsoe?

[JCSunsfan]

Does that mean you disagree with my first point? That if we intend to keep them both, we couldn't afford to eventually match Dragic's salary with what we would have pay Bledsoe to re-sign him, for the luxury of having two starting Point Guards on the roster?

Yes. I believe it would be harder to replace Bledsoe than Dragic.

I believe that we can pay both.

 

[Mainstreet]

I totally disagree. Bledsoe's two way talents are much more rare than Dragic's abilities. Bledsoe had a meniscus tear. It happens. It was one season.

If Dragic continues to play like he had to this year without Bledsoe, I guarantee you he will break down too, and it won't be pretty.

I am all for keeping them both. In fact, I am not really sure about Love. I like his rebounding and scoring, and he might become more efficient playing for a team like the Suns, but if he has to take the ball out of everyone else's hands in order to be effective, the who team could become less efficient.

We have two choices. Build a team like the Spurs or like the Celtics.

Spurs: Draft a core player. Find other players through wise draft choices, signings, and trades and let that core grow together. Keep continuity. Disadvantage: Slow process, need that key core player. Advantage: long periods of relevence.

Celtics: Stockpile young talent and then trade it away to put together a veteran core. Advantage: Contention immediately. Disadvantage: Short window.

Just need a Tim Duncan or a David Robinson to build around.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Just need a Tim Duncan or a David Robinson to build around.

Except the knock against David Robinson was that he was too soft and he'd never lead a team to a championship. It was unwarranted but after the refs allowed Malone to manhandle him in the playoffs, that was the label he lived with. So maybe we just need a Tim AND a David to build around. Goran and Eric look a little like Timmy and David don't they?

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

Except the knock against David Robinson was that he was too soft and he'd never lead a team to a championship. It was unwarranted but after the refs allowed Malone to manhandle him in the playoffs, that was the label he lived with. So maybe we just need a Tim AND a David to build around. Goran and Eric look a little like Timmy and David don't they?

Steve

I didn't think it was unwarranted at all. He was mentally soft. A perfect 2nd banana, but Robinson was title leading man material, IMO. That Spurs team continually underachieved in the playoffs and never once really had one of those surprising wins beating someone better then them.

 

[Mainstreet]

Except the knock against David Robinson was that he was too soft and he'd never lead a team to a championship. It was unwarranted but after the refs allowed Malone to manhandle him in the playoffs, that was the label he lived with. So maybe we just need a Tim AND a David to build around. Goran and Eric look a little like Timmy and David don't they?

Steve

Yeah, but they are a little short.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I didn't think it was unwarranted at all. He was mentally soft. A perfect 2nd banana, but Robinson was title leading man material, IMO. That Spurs team continually underachieved in the playoffs and never once really had one of those surprising wins beating someone better then them.

I don't think he had much of a supporting cast and seriously, Malone should have been charged for multiple felonies with what he got away with against Robinson.

I know I've said all this before but I've never seen a big man get ignored by the refs like Robinson did. He couldn't catch a call. I remember the first time we faced Tim Duncan. We were doubling Robinson with I think Rex Chapman fronting him and we were just beating the heck out of him. We were holding and pushing and got away with it every time. The first time we got within a foot of Duncan the damned whistle blew. He lived at the foul line, travelled at will all the while we abused Robinson without consequence. If I hadn't known better I would have thought David played for the Suns the way the refs called it.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

Except the knock against David Robinson was that he was too soft and he'd never lead a team to a championship. It was unwarranted but after the refs allowed Malone to manhandle him in the playoffs, that was the label he lived with. So maybe we just need a Tim AND a David to build around. Goran and Eric look a little like Timmy and David don't they?

Steve

Maybe if you're talking about the David from David and Goliath.

 

[SweetD]

I would say yes but only for a sign and trade. I am sure he gets a max offer it will be by several teams. I would trade him to someone that was not the offer we matched.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would say yes but only for a sign and trade. I am sure he gets a max offer it will be by several teams. I would trade him to someone that was not the offer we matched.

You can't do that. By that point, you either match and keep him (for at least a season I believe) or you wave goodbye.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

These are really bad comparisons, Bledsoe is nowhere near LeBron or Howard and Rubio is actually pretty close in a head to head comparison. Rubio is a true PG where Bledsoe is a combo guard. Rubio is a little better on defense, however my point is that both Bledsoe & Rubio need to have the ball in their hands to be effective. They cannot play off the ball, so having both on the same team is redundant as neither is a particularly good outside shooter. The reason Bledsoe & Dragic worked out is because Dragic can play off the ball and is a good spot up shooter. You honestly think MIN would ask for Bledsoe?

Whoa.

 

[overseascardfan]

Whoa.

http://hoopshabit.com/2014/03/01/minnesota-timberwolves-ricky-rubios-defense-matter/

Granted this is one man's opinion but he makes a good point in that its hard to gauge defensive efficiency on a positional basis. Rubio averages over 2 steals per game in each of the 3 years of his career, don't care what you say that is pretty good. Bledsoe averages around 1.6, PG's aren't known as shot blockers but Rubio I feel is underrated defensively and is known strictly as a terrific passer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

http://hoopshabit.com/2014/03/01/minnesota-timberwolves-ricky-rubios-defense-matter/

Granted this is one man's opinion but he makes a good point in that its hard to gauge defensive efficiency on a positional basis. Rubio averages over 2 steals per game in each of the 3 years of his career, don't care what you say that is pretty good. Bledsoe averages around 1.6, PG's aren't known as shot blockers but Rubio I feel is underrated defensively and is known strictly as a terrific passer.

Steals at the point guard position are an ineffective way of measuring defense IMO. When watching them play, Rubio looks like a very poor defender. But since I don't watch them often, I googled for stats related to the position. One thing that stood out is that Minnesota is near the bottom of the league in defending the point guard position, much of that has to fall on Rubio's shoulders.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

Rubio is an atrocious defender, and frankly a very bad player. Outside of passing, he is terrible in every single category. I've watched the Wolves play a lot in the last two years, and in my opinion, Rubio might be the most overrated player in the entire NBA. To suggest he is a better defender than Bledsoe is beyond wrong.

 

[slinslin]

Rubio is not a bad defender.

Not only is he the best at getting steals his defensive rating is much better than Dragic and even Bledsoe. Don't know if that makes him a better defender than Bledsoe but to suggest that Rubio is an atrocious defender is hilarious.

 

[Joe Mama]

Rubio is an atrocious defender, and frankly a very bad player. Outside of passing, he is terrible in every single category. I've watched the Wolves play a lot in the last two years, and in my opinion, Rubio might be the most overrated player in the entire NBA. To suggest he is a better defender than Bledsoe is beyond wrong.

Totally agree. I hate using steals as an indicator of good defense. Too often the opposite is actually true. Players constantly going for steals get burned repeatedly because it leaves them totally out of position. Blocked shots aren't quite as badly overrated as steals, but blocking a lot of shots does not necessarily make you a good defender and there are plenty of really good defenders who do not block a lot of shots.

I've been lurking around on the board since the wind down of the college season and there are two things I always want to jump in and argue about. The first is that I always want to defend Channing Frye here. Finally did that yesterday. The second thing is that I believe Bledsoe's defense gets really overrated here. IMO Goran Dragic is a much better all-around player. The difference between Bledsoe and him on offense outweighs the smaller difference on defense. I go back and forth every five minutes on how I feel about signing Bledsoe to a big contract, but if that looks like it might, at the cost of losing Dragic next year I think it's a no-brainer… sign and trade Bledsoe or let him walk.

Joe Mama

 

[Joe Mama]

Rubio is not a bad defender.

Not only is he the best at getting steals his defensive rating is much better than Dragic and even Bledsoe. Don't know if that makes him a better defender than Bledsoe but to suggest that Rubio is an atrocious defender is hilarious.

Slin, where do you get there defensive rating? What site are you using for that?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[sunsfan88]

CP3 is the best at getting steals, not Rubio. The man is capable of ripping it apart from guys like LeBron, Durant to guys like Curry, Westbrook etc.

 

[slinslin]

So why does Rubio have the highest steal% in the league? (steal % means the chance that player comes up with a steal per opp posession) Rubio lead that category 2 years in a row and gets as many raw steals as Paul too.

@JoeMama basketball-reference.com is one source for advanced stats

 

[sunsfan88]

The Cavs are making noises that they aren’t going to offer Kyrie Irving “max money’’ this summer via a long-term extension. They don’t want to deal the 2014 All-Star Game MVP, but it could come to that, especially if the West Orange product and his family continue to tell people that he wants out. Irving hasn’t been a leader in his first three seasons and he’s also gained the unwelcomed reputation as a locker-room problem. Those are two reasons the Cavs don’t see him as a max player.

“He was just handed too much, too soon,’’ said one source. “You’ve got to make these young guys earn it, and that’s where this team did a bad job with him.’’

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...zlies-best-franchise-sports-article-1.1804428

The Cavs not wanting to give All Star starter Kyrie Irving max money may bode well for the Suns chances of nobody giving Bledsoe giving max contract either.

PGs simply aren't valued that highly anymore.

 

[Superbone]

The Cavs not wanting to give All Star starter Kyrie Irving max money may bode well for the Suns chances of nobody giving Bledsoe giving max contract either.

PGs simply aren't valued that highly anymore.

I don't think that's true. Locker room cancers aren't valued very highly though.

 

[Bufalay]

So why does Rubio have the highest steal% in the league? (steal % means the chance that player comes up with a steal per opp posession) Rubio lead that category 2 years in a row and gets as many raw steals as Paul too.

@JoeMama basketball-reference.com is one source for advanced stats

Bledsoe is rated higher according to ESPN's defensive real +/-
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1

 

[Phrazbit]

Steals are a terrible gauge of defensive ability. Allen Iverson was consistently among the league leaders in the category and he was a hoooooooorrible defender, absolutely awful. The only effort he made as a defender was to reach for steals.

Without question, Bledsoe is a better defender than Rubio. Is Rubio a terrible defender, an average one, good? I'm not really sure. Some metrics make him look good, like that ESPN +/- thing, others make him look pretty bad, like opponent PER (where he gives up an 18.9 to opposing PGs). You've got some pro scouts saying he is a terrible defender, you've got articles putting him all over the spectrum.

 

[sunsfan88]

Paul Calvisi @PaulCalvisi

#NBA sources say #Suns are "looking to move Eric Bledsoe" & are exploring trade options for sign & trade. Other sources say "not surprised."

.

 

[hsandhu]

.

If this is true, a jackass doesnt change its stripes, #sarver

 

[sunsfan88]

If this is true, a jackass doesnt change its stripes, #sarver

Maybe its about his injury issues, not the money?