PFF Game Grades

BritCard

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By the KTBGS (Krangthebrain grading system), Simmons got like an 80.

My grading system is similar to PFF except I give big weight to splash plays and Simmons made a few of those.

The problem with PFF is that a yeoman guy who is always in the right position could score a 80, while a guy who wasn't in the right position all of the time but made 2 big plays could score a 65. Thats why you'll routinely see guys that are only ok score high. I remember one game where Zach Allen scored really high and he didn't really do squat in a loss.

Wait, what?

The guy that was always in the right position and did the right things should score high, no matter who he is. And the guy that made 2 big plays but screwed up the other 60 should score low.
 

SoonerLou

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Offense

Kyler Murray - 84.5

Chase Edmonds - 63.8
James Conner - 63.3

Maxx Williams - 54.7
Demetrius Harris - 55.3
Darrell Daniels - No grade

Hump - 78.7
Pugh - 67.8
Hudson - 52.7 (Only 28.5 pass blocking)
Jones - 42.5 (65 pass blocking)
Beachum - 67.4
Murray - 66.4

Hopkins - 81.8
Green - 55.9 (Nothing to see here, quickly move on)
Kirk - 85.9
Moore - 80.9

When did we last have a QB and 3 WR's over 80 grades?
Obviously not gospel, but I really hope Hudson works out. @Chopper0080 I really believe Creed Humphrey would have fell to our pick in the 3rd round since Hudson was likely to sign with the Chiefs.
 

SoonerLou

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I think if a site gains access to actually game day grades from teams that would be huge.

Surprised the NFL hasnt set that up actually. Imagine if the Cardinals delievered their own grades to a site every wednesday.
 

Krangthebrain

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Wait, what?

The guy that was always in the right position and did the right things should score high, no matter who he is. And the guy that made 2 big plays but screwed up the other 60 should score low.
Thats not exactly what I'm saying.

I've seen guys who did almost nothing in a game get 80 grades.

PFF does not, even by your admission, give grade bumps based on context. Context matters in sports! It matters a lot.

Thats why you have some fans who think of NBA player Robert Horry as some great player. He wasnt. He was a role player who hit a few big shots and some people think he is HOF worthy.

Simmons made a handful of ordinary big plays (his tackle one on one in the hole on Henry) and had a big interception.

I've seen this a lot from PFF so I take them with a massive grain of salt. I'm not saying to fully disregard, but they aren't perfect at all.
 

football karma

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i will plead guilty to using/ posting PFF grades many, many times

its a handy source for objective analysis: "objective" defined as a source that doesn't care about the Cardinals or any other NFL team.

At their worst, PFF grades are subjective evaluations dressed up as objective, scientific ones.

At the same time, they are something and generally track the eye test. They are a data point that can make you question your priors on a given player.
 

BritCard

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Thats not exactly what I'm saying.

I've seen guys who did almost nothing in a game get 80 grades.

PFF does not, even by your admission, give grade bumps based on context. Context matters in sports! It matters a lot.

Thats why you have some fans who think of NBA player Robert Horry as some great player. He wasnt. He was a role player who hit a few big shots and some people think he is HOF worthy.

Simmons made a handful of ordinary big plays (his tackle one on one in the hole on Henry) and had a big interception.

I've seen this a lot from PFF so I take them with a massive grain of salt. I'm not saying to fully disregard, but they aren't perfect at all.

Here's the thing though, and we already covered this.

The issue is with with the "I've seen guys" part. Because we all watch football the same way, as a form of entertainment. So we are watching where the ball is most of the time.

There 130 total snaps in the game and on each one 11 players had a job to do. That's 1450 individual tasks performed in the game and not one of us noticed more than probably 100. Let's be generous and say 150 tops. At most we saw 10% of the action and our judgement on whether someone was good or bad comes from their plays within that 10%.

Now, if you want to say that PFF is flawed because of method, quality etc then fair enough. I don't know enough to make that argument. While I understand their -2 to +2 grading system and can see it's technical merits I don't necessarily agree with it's lack of weighting.

The one thing I can never get behind is the casual fan saying "This grade does not match up to my eye test". Well, frankly, all our eyes aren't worth anything combined.

I'm never going to get on board with the idea that 3 trained analysts watching each play by each player separately is less accurate than the max 150 individual plays we see while talking, drinking, eating, tweeting and posting on ASFN.
 
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BritCard

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If it makes anyone feel better Taylor Lewan got a 39.7 grade with 24.1 pass blocking grade. I'm sure that matches everyone's eye test.
 

Chopper0080

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PFF is a point of reference. It is far from perfect and done without knowledge of assignment or scheme. To be fair to those on this board, I am sure there are many like me who can say "oh, they are running cover 6 and this should have been there". That doesn't account for players communicating in the moment or making their own adjustments on the field. That is how high level football is played. PFF also tries to be the smartest person in the room with their grading. You can reference their draft grades as an easy example of this.


For me, I like that you share this. It gives me an easy check vs what I thought I saw when watching the games and for certain players, I sometimes go back and watch to see if I missed something or if I feel their grade is just off. That said, I do tend to roll my eyes a bit with PFF grades in terms of most player debates. For fans and with the access we have, it is just near impossible to decipher between a lot of players and I feel that is the same for PFF.
 

BritCard

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PFF is a point of reference. It is far from perfect and done without knowledge of assignment or scheme. To be fair to those on this board, I am sure there are many like me who can say "oh, they are running cover 6 and this should have been there". That doesn't account for players communicating in the moment or making their own adjustments on the field. That is how high level football is played. PFF also tries to be the smartest person in the room with their grading. You can reference their draft grades as an easy example of this.


For me, I like that you share this. It gives me an easy check vs what I thought I saw when watching the games and for certain players, I sometimes go back and watch to see if I missed something or if I feel their grade is just off. That said, I do tend to roll my eyes a bit with PFF grades in terms of most player debates. For fans and with the access we have, it is just near impossible to decipher between a lot of players and I feel that is the same for PFF.

The way I always look at it is this.

Did a player who graded 65 definitely play worse than a guy with 70 in a single game? Possibly not. Did he play worse than a guy with 75? Probably yes.

I don't look at them like Madden ratings. They are guides to performance, not ability. Performance is effected by many external factors.

Love them or hate them they are all that's available and they do generally tally with what everyone thinks.

The biggest lols come from those that can't get enough of PFF grades when they say the player they like played well, but say PFF sucks when they don't.
 

Krangthebrain

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PFF is a point of reference. It is far from perfect and done without knowledge of assignment or scheme. To be fair to those on this board, I am sure there are many like me who can say "oh, they are running cover 6 and this should have been there". That doesn't account for players communicating in the moment or making their own adjustments on the field. That is how high level football is played. PFF also tries to be the smartest person in the room with their grading. You can reference their draft grades as an easy example of this.


For me, I like that you share this. It gives me an easy check vs what I thought I saw when watching the games and for certain players, I sometimes go back and watch to see if I missed something or if I feel their grade is just off. That said, I do tend to roll my eyes a bit with PFF grades in terms of most player debates. For fans and with the access we have, it is just near impossible to decipher between a lot of players and I feel that is the same for PFF.
This.

I do look at PFF grades. If the Cardinals sign a guy who graded as a 45, the guy is probably a fringe player. If he graded at 65 or above, he might be a pretty useful player.

I actually have the cheaper subscription since they have a military discount and it's nice to read their more indepth write ups.
 

DeAnna

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Obviously not gospel, but I really hope Hudson works out. @Chopper0080 I really believe Creed Humphrey would have fell to our pick in the 3rd round since Hudson was likely to sign with the Chiefs.
Hudson's rating does seem low. On MFF they mentioned several times how they missed Hudson at center.

I'm just glad we no longer have turtles at center - you know, flat on their back with legs up in the air :rolleyes:
 

kerouac9

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PFF is a point of reference. It is far from perfect and done without knowledge of assignment or scheme. To be fair to those on this board, I am sure there are many like me who can say "oh, they are running cover 6 and this should have been there". That doesn't account for players communicating in the moment or making their own adjustments on the field. That is how high level football is played. PFF also tries to be the smartest person in the room with their grading. You can reference their draft grades as an easy example of this.


For me, I like that you share this. It gives me an easy check vs what I thought I saw when watching the games and for certain players, I sometimes go back and watch to see if I missed something or if I feel their grade is just off. That said, I do tend to roll my eyes a bit with PFF grades in terms of most player debates. For fans and with the access we have, it is just near impossible to decipher between a lot of players and I feel that is the same for PFF.
100% on this. I'd rather have this than not have it (or go to Revenge of the Birds to read Walter's breakdowns).

You just scatch the surface on PFF grades and you quickly discover how problematic they are. Look at Kyler's big scramble before the pass to Rondale. Is that a good play or a bad play? If Kyler misses a first open read, then recovers and completes the pass, how does that get graded? Sometimes good process leads to bad results. The PFF methodology flattens that.
 

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