2022 Arizona Cardinals Roster Review

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kerouac9

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Heard today he's going back to the Falcons

Texans, looks like.

Man, running back this entire secondary again... I dunno.
 

football karma

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Fabian Moreau had a down year with the Falcons last season and could be a great buy-low opportunity. Atlanta was dead-last in adjusted sack rage by a significant margin (3.8% -- next lowest was 5.3%).

The remaining guys are all older, one-year rentals (Hoe Haden, Kyle Fuller, Chris Harris, etc., etc.). Wouldn't be surprised at all if Keim brings back Robert Alford.
also on the street is Jackrabbit (Janoris) Jenkins--- actually had a pretty good season with Tennessee last year but is 34

anyone know what Trae Wayne's story is? also on the street
 

Chopper0080

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Scary-looking roster & not in a good way.

Very much like our TE room though.
I like the WR room with Hopkins. I don't mind AJ Green as a #4WR option, just don't care for him being the #2.

Like TE room.

I like our offensive line to a point. If Smith and Hayes can make the 53, I like it a lot more.

Safety group is pretty good.

CB room lacks depth but I do like Hamilton.

Front 7 is a mess IMO. But I don't care for Vance so whatever.
 

Dayman

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This whole defense looks a little suspect to me. Depth is a real issue everywhere besides safety. A couple of injuries could easily turn this into a bottom 10 defense, which isn't great when JJ Watt is one of the injuries that would/will have a huge impact.
 

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I know it's the off season and worrying if the main pass time but I find it a bit odd that people are so concerned about the defense which finished top 10 in many categories and was 6th in DVOA last season.

I assume because we lost Chandler Jones? But Chandler barely did anything outside game 1 last season and the defense was still good. The only other losses are Hicks (who everyone complained about none stop) and Alford (who everyone complained about none stop).

We have Watt back (hopefully he can stay healthy as he did the season before last) and Collins will be at least equal to Hicks. The only real concern now is CB but there are a tonne of vets still out there.

Alford is the obvious choice. Chris Harris would make sense if they want to move Murphy outside. Xavier Rhodes is still talented. Plus others.
 

Dayman

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I know it's the off season and worrying if the main pass time but I find it a bit odd that people are so concerned about the defense which finished top 10 in many categories and was 6th in DVOA last season.

I assume because we lost Chandler Jones? But Chandler barely did anything outside game 1 last season and the defense was still good. The only other losses are Hicks (who everyone complained about none stop) and Alford (who everyone complained about none stop).

We have Watt back (hopefully he can stay healthy as he did the season before last) and Collins will be at least equal to Hicks. The only real concern now is CB but there are a tonne of vets still out there.

Alford is the obvious choice. Chris Harris would make sense if they want to move Murphy outside. Xavier Rhodes is still talented. Plus others.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-analysis/2022/dallas-tops-final-2021-dvoa-ratings

"Arizona finishes up the top 10 in total DVOA for the season. They're one of the teams with the biggest gaps between total and weighted DVOA, however. In weighted DVOA, the Cardinals drop to 16th going into this week's playoff game against the Rams. The Cardinals lost four of their last five games and had negative DVOA in all four of those losses."
 

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https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-analysis/2022/dallas-tops-final-2021-dvoa-ratings

"Arizona finishes up the top 10 in total DVOA for the season. They're one of the teams with the biggest gaps between total and weighted DVOA, however. In weighted DVOA, the Cardinals drop to 16th going into this week's playoff game against the Rams. The Cardinals lost four of their last five games and had negative DVOA in all four of those losses."

Yeah that's total DVOA. It say's it right there. The offense ranked much lower than the defense. Defense ranked 6th. Offense 15th. Combined finished 10th.
 

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You can find it odd, but most of us find it rational to worry about a D with crappy run D, a coach who refuses to play many young draft picks OR plan to stop the run, where we are significantly worse in pass rush, where, due to an unforseen tragedy, we are now short at CB, have one of our stars that will probably only play half a season at most, and have a ginormous ? at ILBer with poor-looking depth. Yeah, none of that inspires confidence in me.

Now you're going to TELL me why none of those are problems lol
 

BullheadCardFan

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most of us find it rational to worry about a D with crappy run D, a coach who refuses to play many young draft picks OR plan to stop the run, where we are significantly worse in pass rush, where, due to an unforseen tragedy, we are now short at CB, have one of our stars that will probably only play half a season at most, and have a ginormous ? at ILBer with poor-looking depth. Yeah, none of that inspires confidence in me.
This
 

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You can find it odd, but most of us find it rational to worry about a D with crappy run D, a coach who refuses to play many young draft picks OR plan to stop the run, where we are significantly worse in pass rush, where, due to an unforseen tragedy, we are now short at CB, have one of our stars that will probably only play half a season at most, and have a ginormous ? at ILBer with poor-looking depth. Yeah, none of that inspires confidence in me.

Now you're going to TELL me why none of those are problems lol

It's rational to be concerned and also rational to believe that the CARDS share some of your concerns and that rationally they will attempt to answer these needs.
 

BritCard

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You can find it odd, but most of us find it rational to worry about a D with crappy run D, a coach who refuses to play many young draft picks OR plan to stop the run, where we are significantly worse in pass rush, where, due to an unforseen tragedy, we are now short at CB, have one of our stars that will probably only play half a season at most, and have a ginormous ? at ILBer with poor-looking depth. Yeah, none of that inspires confidence in me.

Now you're going to TELL me why none of those are problems lol

But nearly all those things were the case last year too. Which is my point. I'm not saying all is rosy. I'm saying the issues are predominantly the exact same issues people said we had last off season. We went though all this when we didn't resign P2.

And I've not TOLD you a single thing. I simply laid out my thoughts on the matter.
 

Krangodnzr

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You can find it odd, but most of us find it rational to worry about a D with crappy run D, a coach who refuses to play many young draft picks OR plan to stop the run, where we are significantly worse in pass rush, where, due to an unforseen tragedy, we are now short at CB, have one of our stars that will probably only play half a season at most, and have a ginormous ? at ILBer with poor-looking depth. Yeah, none of that inspires confidence in me.

Now you're going to TELL me why none of those are problems lol
This isn't really true at all. If Zaven Collins falters, the Cardinals have Nick Vigil who is pretty comparable to Jordan Hicks.

The Cardinals defense was fine last year.
 

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This isn't really true at all. If Zaven Collins falters, the Cardinals have Nick Vigil who is pretty comparable to Jordan Hicks.

The Cardinals defense was fine last year.
It is true. You didn't even need to ask which player I was referencing. Nick Vigil may be a poor man's Hicks, but that isn't what you want in a starter. He's good depth, but if our big question mark fails, he's not a multiple-game starter that inspires confidence.
 

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It's rational to be concerned and also rational to believe that the CARDS share some of your concerns and that rationally they will attempt to answer these needs.
Certainly, and I hope they do. At this point, there isn't a lot they'll be able to do or many of them. This is largely the defense we will have moving into the season.
 

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Where I feel people miss on Chandler Jones is that teams schemed for him which allotted opportunities to other players to get one-on-one matchups. He also was productive even though people will say it was in spurts. Losing a player who does those things impacts your defense. No way around it. Very similar to when we lost Hopkins to injury last year when he wasn't "top 10" productive at the beginning of the season. Yes, Hopkins production was lost but it was more about what he forced the opposing team to do to account for him.

I am sure there will be plenty of "we will see" comments and we of course will.
 

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Where I feel people miss on Chandler Jones is that teams schemed for him which allotted opportunities to other players to get one-on-one matchups. He also was productive even though people will say it was in spurts. Losing a player who does those things impacts your defense. No way around it. Very similar to when we lost Hopkins to injury last year when he wasn't "top 10" productive at the beginning of the season. Yes, Hopkins production was lost but it was more about what he forced the opposing team to do to account for him.

I am sure there will be plenty of "we will see" comments and we of course will.

I would like some actual evidence that shows teams scheming for Chandler after the first few tilts. I can't remember much chipping of him or anything else that supports your contention.
 
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kerouac9

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https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-analysis/2022/dallas-tops-final-2021-dvoa-ratings

"Arizona finishes up the top 10 in total DVOA for the season. They're one of the teams with the biggest gaps between total and weighted DVOA, however. In weighted DVOA, the Cardinals drop to 16th going into this week's playoff game against the Rams. The Cardinals lost four of their last five games and had negative DVOA in all four of those losses."

Cards were sixth in defensive DVOA last season and ninth in weighted DVOA. If you like DVOA as an indicator (and I do), you should be less concerned about the rush defense and much, much, much more concerned about how the pass defense came unglued in the home stretch:

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Negative DVOA is good when you're looking at defense. Those pass defense DVOA numbers are awful, and it's difficult to say that it's going to get better when you're just subtracting your top pass rusher.

And, no, I don't believe that J.J. Watt is going to be healthy for 17 games and I'm not gonna just pencil that in. Watt has started more than 8 games twice in the past six seasons. :eek:
 

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Where I feel people miss on Chandler Jones is that teams schemed for him which allotted opportunities to other players to get one-on-one matchups. He also was productive even though people will say it was in spurts. Losing a player who does those things impacts your defense. No way around it. Very similar to when we lost Hopkins to injury last year when he wasn't "top 10" productive at the beginning of the season. Yes, Hopkins production was lost but it was more about what he forced the opposing team to do to account for him.

I am sure there will be plenty of "we will see" comments and we of course will.

I've heard it. I'm just not sure how true it is.

For one, we missed him most of the 2020 season and the pass rush didn't skip a beat. In fact I believe we had our best year recently for sacks (total team).

I'm guessing by "scheme for" you mean double teams? That he took up two players regularly to free up other people? His double team rate was 20% last year which is below average. It was less than greats such as Carlos Dunlap, John Franklin-Myers, Joe Tryon, Randy Gregory, the ghost of Justin Houston, Charles Harris, Uchenna Nwosu, Josh Sweat, and whoever Jake Martin is. Even Golden had 15% double teams so it's not a huge difference between them.

It was similar in 2019 when he was doubled only 16.5% of the time while guys like Max Crosby, Hendrickson, Clowney, Z.Smith, D-Law, Garrett etc were 25-28% DT'd.
 

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Cards were sixth in defensive DVOA last season and ninth in weighted DVOA. If you like DVOA as an indicator (and I do), you should be less concerned about the rush defense and much, much, much more concerned about how the pass defense came unglued in the home stretch:

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Negative DVOA is good when you're looking at defense. Those pass defense DVOA numbers are awful, and it's difficult to say that it's going to get better when you're just subtracting your top pass rusher.

And, no, I don't believe that J.J. Watt is going to be healthy for 17 games and I'm not gonna just pencil that in. Watt has started more than 8 games twice in the past six seasons. :eek:

Yeah that home stretch was a real killer. We finished 16th in points allowed. Up until game 13 we were top 7.
 

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I've heard it. I'm just not sure how true it is.

For one, we missed him most of the 2020 season and the pass rush didn't skip a beat. In fact I believe we had our best year recently for sacks (total team).

I'm guessing by "scheme for" you mean double teams? That he took up two players regularly to free up other people? His double team rate was 20% last year which is below average. It was less than greats such as Carlos Dunlap, John Franklin-Myers, Joe Tryon, Randy Gregory, the ghost of Justin Houston, Charles Harris, Uchenna Nwosu, Josh Sweat, and whoever Jake Martin is. Even Golden had 15% double teams so it's not a huge difference between them.

It was similar in 2019 when he was doubled only 16.5% of the time while guys like Max Crosby, Hendrickson, Clowney, Z.Smith, D-Law, Garrett etc were 25-28% DT'd.
There are several ways to scheme vs a pass rusher. You can vary your drop depth or decrease the rate of deeper drops. You can adjust your play calling. You can roll the QB away from a side if the player plays on one side predominantly. You can double or chip. Even sliding protection to a player and then using a RB to chip away is an option. You can run at the player to wear them down.

I guess you can assert that teams didn't scheme against one of the most productive pass rushers over the past 5 seasons who was just paid a contract that averages 17 mil per year because of his double-team rate.
 

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The "everything is fine" crew on D is hilarious. We were an OK D when Watt was healthy, then completely fell apart. Watt created pressure and demanded attention, and once he was gone, our D line got no push. (which exposed our secondary)

Where are the above average starters? I see Budda/Watt/Thompson, and everyone else is average or worse.

On top of that, we lose Hicks (most snaps on the team) and Chandler Jones, and our big offseason additions on D are what?

This should be a team building towards a championship run - instead our QB is off pouting and we've done almost nothing. Good times!
 
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There are several ways to scheme vs a pass rusher. You can vary your drop depth or decrease the rate of deeper drops. You can adjust your play calling. You can roll the QB away from a side if the player plays on one side predominantly. You can double or chip. Even sliding protection to a player and then using a RB to chip away is an option. You can run at the player to wear them down.

I guess you can assert that teams didn't scheme against one of the most productive pass rushers over the past 5 seasons who was just paid a contract that averages 17 mil per year because of his double-team rate.

It's not a simple assertion by BRIT, he gave you numbers.
 

Chopper0080

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It's not a simple assertion by BRIT, he gave you numbers.
He gave me one number...double team rate. He also asked if by scheme I meant double team. My answer to that was no. I did not just mean double team rate which is why I provided the additional ways teams scheme vs defensive front 7 players.

I stated that if he wants to base his determination that teams did not scheme vs Chandler Jones based upon the double team rate, he can. I will disagree with that, cite the contract he was paid, his production, and my own knowledge of football and what teams do to the best defensive front 7 players.
 
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