2022 Arizona Cardinals Roster Review

BritCard

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Cards were sixth in defensive DVOA last season and ninth in weighted DVOA. If you like DVOA as an indicator (and I do), you should be less concerned about the rush defense and much, much, much more concerned about how the pass defense came unglued in the home stretch:

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Negative DVOA is good when you're looking at defense. Those pass defense DVOA numbers are awful, and it's difficult to say that it's going to get better when you're just subtracting your top pass rusher.

And, no, I don't believe that J.J. Watt is going to be healthy for 17 games and I'm not gonna just pencil that in. Watt has started more than 8 games twice in the past six seasons. :eek:

Yeah that home stretch was a real killer. We finished 16th in points allowed. Up until game 13 we were top 7.
 

Chopper0080

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I've heard it. I'm just not sure how true it is.

For one, we missed him most of the 2020 season and the pass rush didn't skip a beat. In fact I believe we had our best year recently for sacks (total team).

I'm guessing by "scheme for" you mean double teams? That he took up two players regularly to free up other people? His double team rate was 20% last year which is below average. It was less than greats such as Carlos Dunlap, John Franklin-Myers, Joe Tryon, Randy Gregory, the ghost of Justin Houston, Charles Harris, Uchenna Nwosu, Josh Sweat, and whoever Jake Martin is. Even Golden had 15% double teams so it's not a huge difference between them.

It was similar in 2019 when he was doubled only 16.5% of the time while guys like Max Crosby, Hendrickson, Clowney, Z.Smith, D-Law, Garrett etc were 25-28% DT'd.
There are several ways to scheme vs a pass rusher. You can vary your drop depth or decrease the rate of deeper drops. You can adjust your play calling. You can roll the QB away from a side if the player plays on one side predominantly. You can double or chip. Even sliding protection to a player and then using a RB to chip away is an option. You can run at the player to wear them down.

I guess you can assert that teams didn't scheme against one of the most productive pass rushers over the past 5 seasons who was just paid a contract that averages 17 mil per year because of his double-team rate.
 

ASUCHRIS

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The "everything is fine" crew on D is hilarious. We were an OK D when Watt was healthy, then completely fell apart. Watt created pressure and demanded attention, and once he was gone, our D line got no push. (which exposed our secondary)

Where are the above average starters? I see Budda/Watt/Thompson, and everyone else is average or worse.

On top of that, we lose Hicks (most snaps on the team) and Chandler Jones, and our big offseason additions on D are what?

This should be a team building towards a championship run - instead our QB is off pouting and we've done almost nothing. Good times!
 
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There are several ways to scheme vs a pass rusher. You can vary your drop depth or decrease the rate of deeper drops. You can adjust your play calling. You can roll the QB away from a side if the player plays on one side predominantly. You can double or chip. Even sliding protection to a player and then using a RB to chip away is an option. You can run at the player to wear them down.

I guess you can assert that teams didn't scheme against one of the most productive pass rushers over the past 5 seasons who was just paid a contract that averages 17 mil per year because of his double-team rate.

It's not a simple assertion by BRIT, he gave you numbers.
 

Chopper0080

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It's not a simple assertion by BRIT, he gave you numbers.
He gave me one number...double team rate. He also asked if by scheme I meant double team. My answer to that was no. I did not just mean double team rate which is why I provided the additional ways teams scheme vs defensive front 7 players.

I stated that if he wants to base his determination that teams did not scheme vs Chandler Jones based upon the double team rate, he can. I will disagree with that, cite the contract he was paid, his production, and my own knowledge of football and what teams do to the best defensive front 7 players.
 

BritCard

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There are several ways to scheme vs a pass rusher. You can vary your drop depth or decrease the rate of deeper drops. You can adjust your play calling. You can roll the QB away from a side if the player plays on one side predominantly. You can double or chip. Even sliding protection to a player and then using a RB to chip away is an option. You can run at the player to wear them down.

I guess you can assert that teams didn't scheme against one of the most productive pass rushers over the past 5 seasons who was just paid a contract that averages 17 mil per year because of his double-team rate.

They are all ways to scheme, but you specifically mentioned he enabled other players to have one on one matchups suggesting he's drawing a bunch of DTs.

And what about 2020? Without CJ we finished 12th in points allowed. 9th in passing yards allowed. 10th in defensive DVOA.

We also won both games last year without him. Conceding 12 points per game.

No doubt CJ is a good player. But I don't think he's been great for 2 years. And in the 14 games he's missed in those 2 years the defence has barely skipped a beat.
 

BritCard

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He gave me one number...double team rate. He also asked if by scheme I meant double team. My answer to that was no. I did not just mean double team rate which is why I provided the additional ways teams scheme vs defensive front 7 players.

I stated that if he wants to base his determination that teams did not scheme vs Chandler Jones based upon the double team rate, he can. I will disagree with that, cite the contract he was paid, his production, and my own knowledge of football and what teams do to the best defensive front 7 players.

You specifically mentioned he was giving other guys 1 on 1 opportunities which can only be because he's drawing double teams.

Which is why I specifically mentioned double teams.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I've heard it. I'm just not sure how true it is.

For one, we missed him most of the 2020 season and the pass rush didn't skip a beat. In fact I believe we had our best year recently for sacks (total team).

I'm guessing by "scheme for" you mean double teams? That he took up two players regularly to free up other people? His double team rate was 20% last year which is below average. It was less than greats such as Carlos Dunlap, John Franklin-Myers, Joe Tryon, Randy Gregory, the ghost of Justin Houston, Charles Harris, Uchenna Nwosu, Josh Sweat, and whoever Jake Martin is. Even Golden had 15% double teams so it's not a huge difference between them.

It was similar in 2019 when he was doubled only 16.5% of the time while guys like Max Crosby, Hendrickson, Clowney, Z.Smith, D-Law, Garrett etc were 25-28% DT'd.
If we are talking 2020 who is our Reddick?
 

cardpa

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So what ya'all are saying is Joseph did a much better job than KK in adjusting the defense when injuries and sub par performance reared their ugly head. When KK lost Hopkins he pretty much failed to make adequate adjustment to the offense while Joseph reworked some things to make up for the shortfalls. People are also saying the defense's DVOA was quite good yet Joseph takes a lot of heat for being bad. How can that be?
 

Chopper0080

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You specifically mentioned he was giving other guys 1 on 1 opportunities which can only be because he's drawing double teams.

Which is why I specifically mentioned double teams.
Giving help doesn't always equate to a double team. Sliding protection doesn't always equate to a double team. However, both of those can create one on one matchups. Only 5 linemen. Hell, having an OG check their outside shoulder prior to helping the C or blitz pickup to ensure the EDGE doesn't win fast inside can be a huge help to DTs and blitzers.
 

ASUCHRIS

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The combination of a blitz-heavy scheme and trench battles being won by Watt, Jones and company has caused opponents to frequently keep extra blockers in to protect their quarterbacks, Cardinals defensive coordinator Vance Joseph noted last week.

“I don’t blame them,” Joseph said. “I don’t mind it, because [they have] three receivers out and I’ve got five [defensive backs] — I’m going to win third downs.”

Interesting read from when things were going well that goes more into depth WHY things were going right.

Guys like Watt and Jones are difference makers - Jones being gone will hurt, and when Watt inevitably goes down, we'll be throwing out the likes of Golden/Kennard/Fotu/Allen?

Something tells me we'll see a lot less max protect on 3rd down with Jones gone.
 

football karma

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So what ya'all are saying is Joseph did a much better job than KK in adjusting the defense when injuries and sub par performance reared their ugly head. When KK lost Hopkins he pretty much failed to make adequate adjustment to the offense while Joseph reworked some things to make up for the shortfalls. People are also saying the defense's DVOA was quite good yet Joseph takes a lot of heat for being bad. How can that be?
i wouldnt say that

post bye -- the defense gave up 29 points a game with neither rush nor pass defense being any good
 

Chopper0080

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So what ya'all are saying is Joseph did a much better job than KK in adjusting the defense when injuries and sub par performance reared their ugly head. When KK lost Hopkins he pretty much failed to make adequate adjustment to the offense while Joseph reworked some things to make up for the shortfalls. People are also saying the defense's DVOA was quite good yet Joseph takes a lot of heat for being bad. How can that be?
If someone on this board wants to believe that Vance Joseph is anything more than a mediocre NFL DC, go right ahead.
 
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