OT: Why you don't draft a kicker in the 2nd round

Cardiac

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I thought it was stupid when they picked him in the 2nd rd and it was even dumber that they traded up to get him. Dude doesn't have a strong leg and IIRC hasn't made a FG over 50 yards. Oh... and he is a freaking FG kicker.
 

Mitch

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The Cardinals drafted a placekicker in the 2nd round in 1986. John Lee, an All-American from UCLA. Here's how Wikipedia described what happened:

Lee was selected by the St. Louis Cardinals in the second round (32nd overall) of the 1986 NFL Draft, making him one of the highest placekickers ever drafted and the first East Asia native to play in the NFL. He was seen as a can't miss prospect and on July 27, Lee agreed to a four-year $900,000 contract, including a $250,000 signing bonus, making him the highest paid player at his position in the league.[5]

Although he made his first six kicks in preseason,[6] he unexpectedly suffered through a slump and began missing field goals. More seriously, his leg was not nearly strong enough to get adequate distance on kickoffs, and he lost his confidence.[7] He made 8 of 13 field goals as a rookie, before undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his right knee and missing the last five regular season games. He was waived on September 8, 1987.[8]

Hopefully Aguayo can avoid Lee's unfortunate NFL performance.
 

Kel Varnsen

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I thought it was stupid when they picked him in the 2nd rd and it was even dumber that they traded up to get him. Dude doesn't have a strong leg and IIRC hasn't made a FG over 50 yards. Oh... and he is a freaking FG kicker.

Just drafting him that high probably put a lot of pressure on him. Coach Koetter is saying his problems are mental, which makes sense. Hopefully he can overcome the stress.
 

TruColor

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The Cardinals drafted a placekicker in the 2nd round in 1986. John Lee, an All-American from UCLA. Here's how Wikipedia described what happened:

Lee was selected by the St. Louis Cardinals in the second round (32nd overall) of the 1986 NFL Draft, making him one of the highest placekickers ever drafted and the first East Asia native to play in the NFL. He was seen as a can't miss prospect and on July 27, Lee agreed to a four-year $900,000 contract, including a $250,000 signing bonus, making him the highest paid player at his position in the league.[5]

Although he made his first six kicks in preseason,[6] he unexpectedly suffered through a slump and began missing field goals. More seriously, his leg was not nearly strong enough to get adequate distance on kickoffs, and he lost his confidence.[7] He made 8 of 13 field goals as a rookie, before undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his right knee and missing the last five regular season games. He was waived on September 8, 1987.[8]

Hopefully Aguayo can avoid Lee's unfortunate NFL performance.

Yep - I certainly remember the nightmare that was John Lee's career.
 

Cardsfanstl

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The Cardinals drafted a placekicker in the 2nd round in 1986. John Lee, an All-American from UCLA. Here's how Wikipedia described what happened:

Lee was selected by the St. Louis Cardinals in the second round (32nd overall) of the 1986 NFL Draft, making him one of the highest placekickers ever drafted and the first East Asia native to play in the NFL. He was seen as a can't miss prospect and on July 27, Lee agreed to a four-year $900,000 contract, including a $250,000 signing bonus, making him the highest paid player at his position in the league.[5]

Although he made his first six kicks in preseason,[6] he unexpectedly suffered through a slump and began missing field goals. More seriously, his leg was not nearly strong enough to get adequate distance on kickoffs, and he lost his confidence.[7] He made 8 of 13 field goals as a rookie, before undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his right knee and missing the last five regular season games. He was waived on September 8, 1987.[8]

Hopefully Aguayo can avoid Lee's unfortunate NFL performance.

Arguably one of the dumbest draft picks the Cards ever made and there have been plenty.
 

Mitch

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Arguably one of the dumbest draft picks the Cards ever made and there have been plenty.

I actually spoke on the phone with the then Cardinals' GM George Boone and he made no bones about it---Lee was considered a "can't miss" prospect and as Boone put it, "let's face it, good kickers can win you 3-4 more games a year."

I understood his logic. How many key games have been won and lost on field goals? if you have a chance to draft a lights-out kicker, you do it.

The thing is, though---kicking is like golfing---at any time you can get a bad case of the hooks or the slices---and then it becomes a mental battle. Sometimes it seems you just can't help it, no matter how hard you try.

Aguayo was one of the most accurate kickers in NCAA history. Now he's battling the yips. Smart that he is seeing out a mental coach. That can help.
 

overseascardfan

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I actually spoke on the phone with the then Cardinals' GM George Boone and he made no bones about it---Lee was considered a "can't miss" prospect and as Boone put it, "let's face it, good kickers can win you 3-4 more games a year."

I understood his logic. How many key games have been won and lost on field goals? if you have a chance to draft a lights-out kicker, you do it.

The thing is, though---kicking is like golfing---at any time you can get a bad case of the hooks or the slices---and then it becomes a mental battle. Sometimes it seems you just can't help it, no matter how hard you try.

Aguayo was one of the most accurate kickers in NCAA history. Now he's battling the yips. Smart that he is seeing out a mental coach. That can help.
I agree with the value of PKs. Sebastian Janikowski and Mason Crosby panned out and warranted their lofty draft status.
 

Buckybird

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The Cardinals drafted a placekicker in the 2nd round in 1986. John Lee, an All-American from UCLA. Here's how Wikipedia described what happened:

Lee was selected by the St. Louis Cardinals in the second round (32nd overall) of the 1986 NFL Draft, making him one of the highest placekickers ever drafted and the first East Asia native to play in the NFL. He was seen as a can't miss prospect and on July 27, Lee agreed to a four-year $900,000 contract, including a $250,000 signing bonus, making him the highest paid player at his position in the league.[5]

Although he made his first six kicks in preseason,[6] he unexpectedly suffered through a slump and began missing field goals. More seriously, his leg was not nearly strong enough to get adequate distance on kickoffs, and he lost his confidence.[7] He made 8 of 13 field goals as a rookie, before undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his right knee and missing the last five regular season games. He was waived on September 8, 1987.[8]

Hopefully Aguayo can avoid Lee's unfortunate NFL performance.
Don't forget Steve Little drafted #1 by Big Red. He & Erxlavin were 2 of the best college kickers I've ever seen. I guess the tee was a huge factor though Tony Franklin had a pretty solid career! Ohhhhhh those SWC kickers :D
 

Mitch

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Don't forget Steve Little drafted #1 by Big Red. He & Erxlavin were 2 of the best college kickers I've ever seen. I guess the tee was a huge factor though Tony Franklin had a pretty solid career! Ohhhhhh those SWC kickers :D

Great point!
 

Bodha

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It was a good pick. I don't like these "see he sucks! That's why it was a bad pick" hindsight football genius talks going on all over social media now.

How many games are won and lost on FGs? A lot. Most of them, in fact.

So which is better: One more linebacker to add to the 9 already on the squad, or the single best kicker in college football history?


It was a good pick. Give the kid time
 

Russ Smith

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The crazy thing on him is the thing everyone loved about him was that he appeared to be completely immune to pressure. He fell off a bit his last year at FSU but on longer kicks, was still automatic on short ones and Xp's. And now for whatever reason he's completely got the yips.

Was a terrific college kicker but you gotta wonder some guys just never get over it.
 

Cardiac

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Thing is you can find a great Kicker later in the draft or an UDFA. In fact that's where most are acquired. How many games has Janikowski won for the Raiders. Answer is not enough because they have sucked for decades because they draft stupid like taking a FG kicker in the 1st rd.
 

ARZCardinals

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Buster Douglas (or Davis) is all I have to say....Cards 2nd round pick LB years ago...cut after 3 weeks of camp.
There are all kinds of players that don't make it.
I'm not counting out Robert at this point. He was the highest percentage kicker in college history....to count him out after 2 preseason games and a few practices is flat out dumb.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Thing is you can find a great Kicker later in the draft or an UDFA. In fact that's where most are acquired. How many games has Janikowski won for the Raiders. Answer is not enough because they have sucked for decades because they draft stupid like taking a FG kicker in the 1st rd.

They sucked because of that pick? Rather myopic view.
 

GatorAZ

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Little Aguayo is 6-6 FG's in his first game as a true freshman. He has a stronger leg than big bro too.
 

kerouac9

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It was a good pick. I don't like these "see he sucks! That's why it was a bad pick" hindsight football genius talks going on all over social media now.

How many games are won and lost on FGs? A lot. Most of them, in fact.

So which is better: One more linebacker to add to the 9 already on the squad, or the single best kicker in college football history?



It was a good pick. Give the kid time

With a second-round pick? Another linebacker/defensive end/defensive back/RB/almost anything.

Even if "most" games are won and lost on FGs, the difference between the best kicker in the NFL (Dan Bailey, Josh Brown, or Steven Hauschka) and a below-average kicker (Mike Nugent, for example) is 10 percent accuracy. On about 30 kicks per season, you're talking about 3 kicks going wide left, right, or short. Not to mention that kicker performance has a high variance from year to year. Mason Crosby was T16th in FG% last year; Janikowski was 32nd.

Basically, you're giving up the opportunity for a potential starter at a skill position for a VERY marginal improvement at a position that might make the difference in one game every two years.
 

Bodha

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Basically, you're giving up the opportunity for a potential starter at a skill position for a VERY marginal improvement at a position that might make the difference in one game every two years.

One game every two years? More like every game every year. Its because your assume FGs are automatic. "Theres little difference between the top guys and bottom guys". Im in the business of winning championships. 10% is big enough. And if I have a shot at the single best player at any position, Im going to take him.

Its why we took Cooper in 2013. A Guard #8 overall is unheard of. But those guys are transcendent talents who will be a cornerstone of your team for the next 12-15 years, afterwards he'll go into the HOF.

Roberto looked like one of those guys. Same as Cooper.


To now argue it was a bad pick based on hindsight is hacky. The reasoning for the initial pick was sound and logical.
 

Cardiac

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They sucked because of that pick? Rather myopic view.

Myopic huh. I'm pretty sure most would read that sentence and understand that my point was it's picks like taking a FG kicker in rd1 as to why they sucked for years. Same as drafting purely on 40 times instead of FB talent.

reality is,....they have not had to worry about their place kicking game in over a decade.

Reality is that having that great FG kicker hasn't won them anything.

IMHO quality FG kickers can be found late in the draft or as UDFA's. Finding QB's, CB's, OT's, DE's, DT's, OLBers are what should be prioritized in rd 1. Safety's, OG's, ILBers and OC's need to be blue chippers to be taken in rd 1.

Kickers of any sort should not be taken in the first three rds IMO.

I'm will to be $50 dollars that 70% of FG kickers on NFL rosters at the beginning of this season were drafted in rd 4 or later or are UDFA's.
 

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