Maximize Marvelous

[DVontel]

if we had nabers instead of marvelous would nabers see more targets

I think so, honestly.

Nabers is way better at YAC & I imagine Petzing would be calling way more screens if he was here.

 

[602 Native]

The irony is that we were saying the exact thing about Deandre Hopkins under Kliff towards the end.. wonder what the common denominator is

K2 was never a OC here. He was the HC and couldn’t handle that. Hence he was fired.

Nuk was great till he got hurt and old with K1.

Again P Guy doesn’t know how to figure this out and should jettisoned.

 

[slanidrac16]

Now do I think MHJ is as good as Lamb...no. But Lamb plays a ton out of the slot and is the focal point of that offense. MHJ does neither of those things.

we can only hope it eventually does.

 

[unseenaz]

K2 was never a OC here. He was the HC and couldn’t handle that. Hence he was fired.

Nuk was great till he got hurt and old with K1.

Again P Guy doesn’t know how to figure this out and should jettisoned.

Kliff was the playcaller here.

 

[HammerCards]

You have to take what the defense gives you. if the mismatches one game are the tight ends you take it. If they have a poor run defense, you run the ball. I am not worried about MHJ. If he needs advice on being a better WR his dad knows something about football.

this would make sense if the offense was exploiting other areas of the defense. Problem is they aren't doing either.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If the Cards had a different QB, this discussion would be moot.

Put Jameis Winston under center and Marv would be near the top in every category. There would be more ints but the offense would be much more explosive.

It’s scheme and Kyler. But Marv needs to be better too.

 

[GatorAZ]

if we had nabers instead of marvelous would nabers see more targets

Yes Kyler would trust him more for catching balls in traffic.

 

[kerouac9]

Yes Kyler would trust him more for catching balls in traffic.

Kyler doesn’t throw passes into traffic for anyone. He only throws to dudes who are obviously open.

 

[oaken1]

Drops/catch rate are a big part of the problem. It means that most of the time we throw to MHJ, we get 0 yards. Hard to move the chains when that happens. In order to give MHJ more targets he we need to reduce McBrides targets, why would we do that if MHJ has a terrible catch rate?

MHJ has a 22.2% target share and McBride has a 29.6% target share. For example, in another highly concentrated offense, Jamar Chase gets 27% of the targets and Tee Higgins 24.9%. You cant realistically concentrate an offense more than that, its just bad football.

Maybe you're thinking its all usage, if MHJ has trouble catching the deep stuff, maybe give him more short stuff? The problem there is he's terrible at breaking tackles and getting YAC. That was something he couldnt even do in college while beating up on the sisters of the poor.

I think a lot of people just don't realize how little we actually pass in general. 20% of 25 dropbacks is 5 target. Meanwhile the Bengals dropped back to pass 42 times last week. Higgins actually only got 4 targets in that game, while his usage last year would predict at least 10. Higgins turned his 4 targets into 51 yards and a TD. Marvin turned his 5 targets into 27 yards. This is a small sample to illustrate something that holds true if you look at larger samples, Tee Higgins is a better WR than MHJ.

If our defense collapses due to the CB injuries, and our run blocking continues to be terrible, maybe we start seeing Kyler drop back 40-50 times a game. If that happens, Marvin "inefficiency" Jr. might start seeing fantasy stats (PPR scam). I personally dont want to see Kyler dropping back that much. But just know this, if MHJ was as good as everyone here wants him to be, he would be able to produce with the 20-22% target share he currently has, even in a low pass volume offense. If that starts happening I would be fine with him stealing some of McBrides targets. But right now, MHJ is a painfully average player and McBride is an elite player, who deserves an elite target share.

BS.
If you are gonna count production per target you have to include drawn PI calls.
Do that and Marv had more yards on fewer targets than Tee Higgins

 

[oaken1]

i think this is the biggest topic in here this week - it's simple - we could have gotten a haul for marvelous - most likely a polethera but we kept him for ourselves and for the time being - kyler murray

i say this because it's a what have you done for me lately league - marvelous might be around after murray especially with the way murray doesn't maximize marvelous

the pattern - as everyone has alluded to - shows a complete lack of targets to marvelous - especially as compared to the receivers drafted behind him - im getting ready for work so i can't geek out but other teams built their offense around and constantly target the wide receivers they got just 2 years ago

is it kyler not throwing to him enough

is it petzing - his vanilla playcall and predictable routes

is it marvelous not getting open

o-line?

marvelous caught the deep ball and accompanying td in week 1 but apparently the panthers had deion sanders covering him so we just stayed away while their wide receiver had a *********** day

i say throw it to marvelous - open or not if the db's has his back turned - throw it - get creative with routes when the neons are shutting him down - build his confidence- go to the well often because we are not getting what we invested

I have no idea who dafuq Marvelous is.
But before we can throw to him we need to increase our shots to Maserati Marv

 

[DaHilg]

The irony is that we were saying the exact thing about Deandre Hopkins under Kliff towards the end.. wonder what the common denominator is..

lol absolutely no one was saying that.. Nuks end of tenure was hamstring issues and a suspension

 

[Cardinal88]

Haha! Several of you are funny. I was being serious about Zay Jones and no, I'm not his father. What has Marv done? Zay is quicker, faster, has better hands, and runs better routes. Marv just glides around. I'm open to other opinions.

 

[DaHilg]

Kliff was the playcaller here.

Kliffy couldn’t even get a play call on time when here.. man you’re sad

 

[kerouac9]

Kliffy couldn’t even get a play call on time when here.. man you’re sad

Kyler still struggling to get the play off on time. Maybe not a Kliff problem?

 

[602 Native]

Kliff was the playcaller here.

Sweet that’s one of many reasons he was fired as HC and is now an OC.

 

[unseenaz]

Sweet that’s one of many reasons he was fired as HC and is now an OC.

It’s a fact he was calling plays why are we moving the goal posts?

 

[unseenaz]

lol absolutely no one was saying that.. Nuks end of tenure was hamstring issues and a suspension

lol! Everyone was saying that, his route tree was posted after every single game.

 

[BirdGangThing]

d-hop averaged 9 targets per game through 3 years as a arizona cardinal with murray

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mcbride averaged nearly 9 targets last year (mhj's rookie year) - the clear primary #1 reciever

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top dog gets between 8 and 9 targets from murray when the o-line is decent to good (2020 and 2024)

kyler is averaging 27 passing attempts through our first 2 games - if mhj wants the ball he needs to be marvelous because we can't quit throwing to mcbride - we just can't

 

[Proteus]

lol! Everyone was saying that, his route tree was posted after every single game.

If I recall correctly, Hop's route tree was generally very limited.

 

[Proteus]

d-hop averaged 9 targets per game through 3 years as a arizona cardinal with murray

You must be registered for see images attach

mcbride averaged nearly 9 targets last year (mhj's rookie year) - the clear primary #1 reciever

You must be registered for see images attach

top dog gets between 8 and 9 targets from murray when the o-line is decent to good (2020 and 2024)

kyler is averaging 27 passing attempts through our first 2 games - if mhj wants the ball he needs to be marvelous because we can't quit throwing to mcbride - we just can't

Murray averaged 32 passing attempts per game in 2024 though. So there's room for more passes to MHJ and the other wide receivers without taking away passes from McBride if we're willing to throw the ball as much as last year.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Murray averaged 32 passing attempts per game in 2024 though. So there's room for more passes to MHJ and the other wide receivers without taking away passes from McBride if we're willing to throw the ball as much as last year.

if we can keep drives alive sure

 

[DaHilg]

lol! Everyone was saying that, his route tree was posted after every single game.

lol Kliffy dictated his route tree and no one else

 

[DaHilg]

I was in fact the one who originally and continually posted his route tree.. clown central here

 

[Shane]

I was in fact the one who originally and continually posted his route tree.. clown central here

Weren't there games where he never left the left side of the field? IIRC I remember seeing a Buncha routes on the left and zero crossing patterns or snaps from the right?

 

[unseenaz]

lol absolutely no one was saying that..

then explain this...? You're all over the place dude.

I was in fact the one who originally and continually posted his route tree.. clown central here