Kyler Murray, does he make NFLTOP100 list?

Chopper0080 · Jul 28, 2020

kerouac9 · Jul 28, 2020

DVontel said:
If you think he’s overrated on this board, just see what the media thinks about him.

I actually think the media has been pretty even-keeled about him. PFF had him rated low — everyone else has him as a guy who was good as a rookie on a bad team and expecting him to make The Leap in his second season with better personnel.

The Athletic's survey had him ranked 14th or 15th and among the 3rd tier of QBs. I think there's a lot of assumed improvement baked in to these rankings — similar to how people projected Baker Mayfield to take a big step in his second season and it didn't really end up happening.

Cbus cardsfan · Jul 28, 2020

I just saw Josh Allen made it. Either this list is a testimonial to how bad the talent is in the league or the criteria is, if you play QB, you’re pretty much on the list.

Murray and Allen both had mediocre years, at best. Is Daniel Jones on the list?

As for Kyler setting rookie records, it’s a shallow pool. Most rookie QBs don’t start from day 1. Add to that He was with an offense built completely around him that he has run since high school.

I’m not bashing him at all. He, to me, wasn’t a top 100 player in the league last year. I expect him to be this year.

Cbus cardsfan · Jul 28, 2020

I just saw Garrapollo was ranked like 43rd.

Okay, this list is meaningless.

Chris_Sanders · Jul 28, 2020

Dr. Jones said:
WRONG!!!!!!

The Legend Lives!!!

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I didn't have him in either. I am going to have to edit his Madden Catch, Catch in Traffic, and Spectacular Catch ratings.

Chris_Sanders · Jul 28, 2020

kerouac9 said:
I actually think the media has been pretty even-keeled about him. PFF had him rated low — everyone else has him as a guy who was good as a rookie on a bad team and expecting him to make The Leap in his second season with better personnel.

The Athletic's survey had him ranked 14th or 15th and among the 3rd tier of QBs. I think there's a lot of assumed improvement baked in to these rankings — similar to how people projected Baker Mayfield to take a big step in his second season and it didn't really end up happening.

No it's the opposite. Multiple Coordinators refuse to rank tier 1 or 2 to any second year QB. Several give automatic 4s.

It's why his was the third highest 2nd year ranking of all time.

But its just NFL offensive and defensive coordinators. What do they know?

Chris_Sanders · Jul 28, 2020

Very few quarterbacks coming off their rookie seasons have polled as well as Murray polled this year. Coaches and evaluators tend to use the fourth tier liberally for players with short track records. That contributed to artificially low ratings for Mahomes and Jackson entering their second seasons. Unlike those two, Murray started all 16 games as a rookie. Reviews were favorable.

“His movement and escapability drives defenses crazy and he throws the ball deep extremely well,” an offensive coordinator said

Murray is one of 17 quarterbacks drafted since 2013 to appear in Quarterback Tiers coming off their rookie seasons. Of those, only Prescott (2.52) and Baker Mayfield (2.53) polled higher than the 2.68 average for Murray this year. Murray, Prescott and Mayfield all ranked 14th at this stage.

“I like him because he is competitive, he is super accurate, he can run,” another offensive coordinator said. “The only problem for me, and I know this doesn’t skew into your quarterback evaluation, is that he is good when he runs the football, but when he does that too much, he can’t last.”

A defensive coordinator thought Murray would become more difficult to defend if he increased his willingness to take a few hits running the ball. Of course, that defensive coordinator would surely love for his linebackers and safeties to get in a few hard shots on the NFL’s smallest starting quarterback. Multiple defensive coaches used the phrase “pain in the ass” to describe what they thought Murray would become. There were some comparisons to Wilson, although the general feel was that Murray would always be the better runner, Wilson the better passer.

“I think the kid is going to be really good,” a defensive coach said. “He knows when to run, he knows when to pass, he does not turn the ball over much and that little joker can throw. They are going to be better. I’m not ready to give the kid Tier 2 yet, but I think he is a legitimate starter and he will jump fast.”

kerouac9 · Jul 28, 2020

Chris_Sanders said:
No it's the opposite. Multiple Coordinators refuse to rank tier 1 or 2 to any second year QB. Several give automatic 4s.

It's why his was the third highest 2nd year ranking of all time.

But its just NFL offensive and defensive coordinators. What do they know?

So in like 3 years?

EDIT: Just to remind you of the population of QBs drafted after 2013 who started meaningful time as rookies:

Blake Bortles
Teddy Bridgewater
Derek Carr
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Carson Wentz
Trubisky
Deshaun Watson (coming off a serious knee injury)
Dak Prescott
Sam Darnold
Baker Mayfield
Josh Allen
Josh Rosen
Lamar Jackson

He's behind Baker and Dak. The only surprising/impressive name on that list that he's ahead of would be Watson, and he was coming off a brutal non-contact knee injury.

BritCard · Jul 28, 2020

Cbus cardsfan said:
I just saw Garrapollo was ranked like 43rd.

Okay, this list is meaningless.

I was just about to say the same!

Whole top 100 is invalid now.

Cardsfan77 · Jul 28, 2020

BritCard said:
I was just about to say the same!

Whole top 100 is invalid now.

If they based it just off his performance against us last year he’d be top 5

MadCardDisease · Jul 29, 2020

Wow! 5 Cardinals made the top 100 this year and that didn't include PP. (Baker, Murray, Fitz, Jones, Hopkins)

This is the 10th year of players voting on the top 100 players. Larry Fitzgerald is one of 4 players to make the list every year since it began in 2011!

https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/larry-fitzgerald-nfl-top-100-list-tenth-straight-year#:~:text=Since the dawn of the,made the cut every time.&text=He did not drop a,to let everyone know that.

The only other players to do that are all QBs (Brady, Brees, Rogers)

Chopper0080 · Jul 29, 2020

MadCardDisease said:
Wow! 5 Cardinals made the top 100 this year and that didn't include PP. (Baker, Murray, Fitz, Jones, Hopkins)

This is the 10th year of players voting on the top 100 players. Larry Fitzgerald is one of 4 players to make the list every year since it began in 2011!

https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/larry-fitzgerald-nfl-top-100-list-tenth-straight-year#:~:text=Since the dawn of the,made the cut every time.&text=He did not drop a,to let everyone know that.

The only other players to do that are all QBs (Brady, Brees, Rogers)

Patrick isn't going to be happy...which is good for us.

DVontel · Jul 29, 2020

Chopper0080 said:
Patrick isn't going to be happy...which is good for us.

Would be nice if he stopped getting dusted by WR3s & WR4s.

MadCardDisease · Jul 30, 2020

How about this nugget:

While the Cardinals had 5 players voted to the top 100 by their peers, the following teams had ZERO players voted in (Bengals, Dolphins, Jaguars, Lions, Jets or Washington Football Teamers)

BritCard · Jul 30, 2020

Matt Ryan didn't make the NFL Top 100. He's a top 10 QB in the league. Jimmy G is 42 but no Matt Ryan. What a joke.

Chopper0080 · Jul 30, 2020

DVontel said:
Would be nice if he stopped getting dusted by WR3s & WR4s.

He either will...and we will benefit for the improved play...or he won't...and his price if we want to retain him will decrease and we will benefit from that. Win win.

Chris_Sanders · Jul 30, 2020

MadCardDisease said:
Wow! 5 Cardinals made the top 100 this year and that didn't include PP. (Baker, Murray, Fitz, Jones, Hopkins)

This is the 10th year of players voting on the top 100 players. Larry Fitzgerald is one of 4 players to make the list every year since it began in 2011!

https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/larry-fitzgerald-nfl-top-100-list-tenth-straight-year#:~:text=Since the dawn of the,made the cut every time.&text=He did not drop a,to let everyone know that.

The only other players to do that are all QBs (Brady, Brees, Rogers)

This team has a ton of talent. I really believe anything less than 8 wins is a disappointment

DVontel · Jul 30, 2020

Chopper0080 said:
He either will...and we will benefit for the improved play...or he won't...and his price if we want to retain him will decrease and we will benefit from that. Win win.

Regardless of his price, how is retaining a guy getting burnt by bottom of the list WRs a benefit?

DVontel · Jul 30, 2020

Chris_Sanders said:
This team has a ton of talent. I really believe anything less than 8 wins is a disappointment

We got talent.

Just not in most of the right spots.

cardncubfan · Jul 30, 2020

DVontel said:
We got talent.

Just not in most of the right spots.

Just 3 important ones. QB, Pass Rusher, & CB. PP will prove you wrong.

PACardsFan · Aug 3, 2020

cardncubfan said:
Just 3 important ones. QB, Pass Rusher, & CB. PP will prove you wrong.

I think we'll learn a lot about PP this year. I think he's a proud guy, and will take it personally that he's no longer top 100. I expect him to rebound, just not sure the bounceback will ever bring him back to what he once was.

Chris_Sanders · Aug 3, 2020

PACardsFan said:
I think we'll learn a lot about PP this year. I think he's a proud guy, and will take it personally that he's no longer top 100. I expect him to rebound, just not sure the bounceback will ever bring him back to what he once was.

I also expect the whole secondary to be better with the pass rushers we have added in the off season.

Cbus cardsfan · Aug 3, 2020

DVontel said:
We got talent.

Just not in most of the right spots.

Sadly, I think HC is one of those spots lacking.

cardncubfan · Aug 3, 2020

Cbus cardsfan said:
Sadly, I think HC is one of those spots lacking.

Thankfully you are wrong.

BritCard · Aug 4, 2020

Cbus cardsfan said:
Sadly, I think HC is one of those spots lacking.

I think thats fair. Or at least it's fair to not be totally convinced.

There were a lot of games where Kliff didn't have a grip of the game.

I'm not interested in the idea that Vance is the "HC of the defense". That goes against everything Keim and Vance himself has said. This year Kliff needs to get a grip on all aspects of both sides of the ball.

Right now he's a very good OC, not so much a HC.

But he's obviously smart and extremely hard working. I have high hopes for him.

Kyler Murray, does he make NFLTOP100 list?

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