Kurt's Performance Against Phins: An NFL First

[TheCardFan]

Where are all the Leinart backers now? Warner has shown he was the perfect fit for this team the way it is built. If we go in and and beat Washington by putting up 28+ points...Watch out league!

I wanted Warner over Leinart as the starter but truth be told, I wish Leinart was the one who had those stats.

Can you imagine how exciting that would be? Wow.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Where are all the Leinart backers now? Warner has shown he was the perfect fit for this team the way it is built. If we go in and and beat Washington by putting up 28+ points...Watch out league!

I'm right here and I'm cheering for Kurt. Keep it up!

And yes I still believe in Matt. Now I have confidence in our present AND our future.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Yes Seriously....I can go and pick through hundereds of threads and posts that said we wouldn't win squat with Warner at QB...He was to old, turnover machinge, Leinart is our future...why wasnt this and that....blah blah....Yes it is nice to see a major reason why were are 2-0 is because Warner has played lights out. I am a Cardinal fan first but no one gave much respect to Warner...He makes our team 14 points better!

Guys this is what he is looking for:

YOU WERE RIGHT!!!!

WE BASK AND COWER IN THE PRESENCE OF YOUR INTELLIGENCE AND GREATNESS!!!!!

Can we drop it now????

 

[Russ Smith]

Guys this is what he is looking for:

YOU WERE RIGHT!!!!

WE BASK AND COWER IN THE PRESENCE OF YOUR INTELLIGENCE AND GREATNESS!!!!!

Can we drop it now????

My solution was to add him to my ignore list. That way I won't see the posts so I won't impulsively respond.

 

[jefftheshark]

Actually - Kurt really isn't all that "different"... He always was a gun-slinger. Always had tremendous toughness and extreme confidence in himself and his WR's. Always was fearless and felt he could put the ball in places most other QB's wouldn't even think about trying...
None of that has changed...
What has changed is everything else around him here in the desert. The team is now being coached, not mis-coached. We have a defense that takes a HUGE amount of pressure off the offense. We have what appears to be at minimum, an effective running game that also takes pressure off of the passing game... And, we have an o-line that is providing marginally better protection for Kurt - though there is still a ton more improvement needed there...

Kurt really hasn't changed much at all... But what is happening, and the distinction noted in this thread is more a matter of just how far this team has come versus any change in Kurt Warner...

I think that you bring up a valid point, because nothing is static year to year in the NFL and situations can change to help or hinder any player. Thanks for trying to elevate the discussion on this topic.

And 82, the rest of this post is not directed at you. However if some on this board insist upon having this as a wedge issue, I'm going to respond as one of the aforementioned "Leinart Backers" by saying that I am very happy to be the one eating crow (as if crow needs to be eaten), because it means that the team is winning games. To wish that any player would fail, in order to be proven personally right in a prediction, is the height of self-centeredness. As a Cardinal fan, I can find my satisfaction in seeing the team win, rather than seeing my favorite player have a statistically amazing day.

That being said, I am still not convinced that my original fears concerning KW have been completely laid to rest. I will be far more comfortable with him after we face a better team than what we've played so far. But I do like the way the season has progressed so far, so I guess I'm in the cautiously optimistic camp.

What I don't like is the Cult of Personality that seems to be forming on this board, and the two cheerleaders who seem to be channeling their energies into keeping it going. It is, quite frankly, taking some of the fun out of coming onto this board. I know that I can put them on "ignore" but really, why should I have to? When you see a very respected poster like Earthsci get banned because he's finally had enough of the garbage from some of the more antagonistic members of this board, then something is not quite right.

JTS

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think that you bring up a valid point, because nothing is static year to year in the NFL and situations can change to help or hinder any player. Thanks for trying to elevate the discussion on this topic.

And 82, the rest of this post is not directed at you. However if some on this board insist upon having this as a wedge issue, I'm going to respond as one of the aforementioned "Leinart Backers" by saying that I am very happy to be the one eating crow (as if crow needs to be eaten), because it means that the team is winning games. To wish that any player would fail, in order to be proven personally right in a prediction, is the height of self-centeredness. As a Cardinal fan, I can find my satisfaction in seeing the team win, rather than seeing my favorite player have a statistically amazing day.

That being said, I am still not convinced that my original fears concerning KW have been completely laid to rest. I will be far more comfortable with him after we face a better team than what we've played so far. But I do like the way the season has progressed so far, so I guess I'm in the cautiously optimistic camp.

What I don't like is the Cult of Personality that seems to be forming on this board, and the two cheerleaders who seem to be channeling their energies into keeping it going. It is, quite frankly, taking some of the fun out of coming onto this board. I know that I can put them on "ignore" but really, why should I have to? When you see a very respected poster like Earthsci get banned because he's finally had enough of the garbage from some of the more antagonistic members of this board, then something is not quite right.

JTS

Totally agree Jeff... I can't get over how someone took this thread and made it into a Matt vs. Kurt debate...

Anyway, your "fears" with Warner are very warranted. Just as anyone else's might be or someone else's fears with Leinart would be had he started in this fashion...
Fact is, very few QB's play at such high levels for any extended period of time. What is most gratifying to me is not so much that Kurt has peformed at such as high level, but that it's the rest of the team that has so dramatically improved. Kurt - who I support immensely, is simply the beneficiary of terrific coaching at all positions, great drafting, effective leadership at the Head Coach position, and overall improved play...

It's really exciting to see it all coming together this way!!

You must be registered for see images

 

[NeverSayDieFan]

The "team" Is 2-0!!!

What else REALLY matters?? GO CARDS!! SHOCK THE WORLD!! WE BELIEVE!!

 

[HeavyB3]

Where are all the Leinart backers now?

I'm with Gee and the rest on this board. Give it a rest.

Russ actually had a fantastic solution

 

[Athlon]

Totally agree Jeff... I can't get over how someone took this thread and made it into a Matt vs. Kurt debate...

Anyway, your "fears" with Warner are very warranted. Just as anyone else's might be or someone else's fears with Leinart would be had he started in this fashion...
Fact is, very few QB's play at such high levels for any extended period of time. What is most gratifying to me is not so much that Kurt has performed at such as high level, but that it's the rest of the team that has so dramatically improved. Kurt - who I support immensely, is simply the beneficiary of terrific coaching at all positions, great drafting, effective leadership at the Head Coach position, and overall improved play...

It's really exciting to see it all coming together this way!!

You must be registered for see images

Kurt is performing great and I agree with you it has a lot to do with the whole team getting better. That's true with all QB. But as A Kurt fan I can understand the frustration some people have because not very many people gave equal blame to the team when he was playing bad.

 

[RedLine]

It's partly excellent coaching. partly the gloves, partly having two already very good wide receivers who seem to get better every game, and partly having a stable and decent pass-protecting offensive line IMO.

The ability was always there IMO, it's just that now the pieces are in place and the confidence is totally restored. As Denny Green famously said when Kurt first arrived in the desert, as long as the other 10 guys do their jobs, Kurt will be fine. Well, the other 10 guys are doing their jobs, Kurt has dramatically improved his own ball security, and the results are vintage Kurt Warner.

Agreed.
I think the O-line improvement has been a much larger factor than most here assume. In '05 and '06, the line sucked. In the beginning of '07 the line was not good, but then Grimm got them playing better, and guess what? Even 1 arm Kurt started playing better. This year, the pass protection is pretty good, and Kurt is doing that amazing stuff.

 

[Spielman]

Agreed.
I think the O-line improvement has been a much larger factor than most here assume. In '05 and '06, the line sucked. In the beginning of '07 the line was not good, but then Grimm got them playing better, and guess what? Even 1 arm Kurt started playing better. This year, the pass protection is pretty good, and Kurt is doing that amazing stuff.

And that's not exactly shocking, isn't it? A pocket passer with limited mobility is getting better protection, and his numbers look a lot better.

That line Warner was playing behind in New York in '04 was scary bad. Dr. Z had an interesting article where he actually timed the rush, responding to the people saying that Warner was holding the ball too long, and pointing out that he rarely used longer than three seconds. The line was simply doing such a bad job, specifically in the game against the Cardinals that led to his benching, that there wasn't enough time for basic plays. Then the Cardinal line in '05 wasn't much better. Now, the Cards have a legit line. I don't know for sure how good they are, but at minimum they're not an embarrassment to an NFL franchise, and that's an improvement over '05, certainly.

If they can keep him upright and his brain unscrambled, it's pretty clear this offense can shred some people. Miami's pretty bad, but if you dominate a bad NFL opponent, you still dominated. I'd just be concerned about putting too much faith in his long-term health.

 

[slanidrac16]

Every time Warner gets sack I am actually pleased he didn't force a throw into triple coverage. We can overcome a sack or two. Pick for 6 is a whole different thing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

love what Warner's done in the first two games. Now the schedule actually gets tough. I'm hoping he continue doing what he's doing and think he should be the guy right now, but I'm not gonna surprised if as we start facing tougher opponents, the perfection (and yes, I do believe that IS what describes Warner's play to this point regardless of opponent which is impressive) dwindles down to mediocrity like we saw in the past (and this goes for the rest of the team as well). Definitely not hoping for that, but I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen.

Dude looked like 1999 Warner last week - it was awesome to watch.

 

[seesred]

I want our team to do well, as everyone does. Matt is our future and Kurt is our now. NOt only that but, he is playing like he is 29 years old. Stay healthy Kurt ,and if something should happen unlike most of the past we wont tear our hair out when he comes in.

GBR
40

 

[TigToad]

Can't I honestly believe that Leinart is going to be the quarterback of our team in the future, think that Leinart would have beaten out Warner during the offseason, note that I was wrong after the week 3 pre-season game, continue to believe in Leinart's future, AND be excited Warner is doing well and be glad he's starting? (Admire the run-on sentence.)

Can't I do all of those things and not have to hear I told you so in a way that makes me feel like we should be some of my students, instead of football loving adults?

Where are all the Leinart backers now? Warner has shown he was the perfect fit for this team the way it is built. If we go in and and beat Washington by putting up 28+ points...Watch out league!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

love what Warner's done in the first two games. Now the schedule actually gets tough. I'm hoping he continue doing what he's doing and think he should be the guy right now, but I'm not gonna surprised if as we start facing tougher opponents, the perfection (and yes, I do believe that IS what describes Warner's play to this point regardless of opponent which is impressive) dwindles down to mediocrity like we saw in the past (and this goes for the rest of the team as well). Definitely not hoping for that, but I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen.

Dude looked like 1999 Warner last week - it was awesome to watch.

Co - sign

I couldn't be more excited about what has taken place so far. Now lets see it against two quality teams on the road.

And yes - after that I will want to see it against two likely division winners at home in Buffalo and Carolina. And then again against Dallas.

I have never been this excited for Sundays but I'm not signing off on "1999 Kurt is back" until I get a little more of a sample size.

Saying that this is the best two game span for a Cardinals QB that I can remember. So far he has played like an MVP.

It's a great, exciting, and slightly unfamiliar feeling that we are even considering that a possibility through 2 weeks though - thats for sure!

 

[Russ Smith]

Agreed.
I think the O-line improvement has been a much larger factor than most here assume. In '05 and '06, the line sucked. In the beginning of '07 the line was not good, but then Grimm got them playing better, and guess what? Even 1 arm Kurt started playing better. This year, the pass protection is pretty good, and Kurt is doing that amazing stuff.

I actually had the opposite opinion I thought the OL was much better early last year than late due largely to guys getting hurt during the season.

The OL was very good at protecting Kurt last year that's one thing I was concerned about this year would be able to do that again.

 

[RedLine]

I actually had the opposite opinion I thought the OL was much better early last year than late due largely to guys getting hurt during the season.

The OL was very good at protecting Kurt last year that's one thing I was concerned about this year would be able to do that again.

You're right that injuries caused some uneven performances. I remember Sendlein starting for Johnson and L.Brown being out hurt. Then Levi played LG and LT without much practice while Gandy and Lutui were hurt.

I don't care to look up stats, but IIRC, we didn't run the ball very well in the first half, and neither Leinart nor Warner had much time to throw. I thought we did better in the second half except for Levi getting smoked by Seattle's Kerney. I think Levi had a bad ankle then, but who else were we gonna play?

 

[Russ Smith]

You're right that injuries caused some uneven performances. I remember Sendlein starting for Johnson and L.Brown being out hurt. Then Levi played LG and LT without much practice while Gandy and Lutui were hurt.

I don't care to look up stats, but IIRC, we didn't run the ball very well in the first half, and neither Leinart nor Warner had much time to throw. I thought we did better in the second half except for Levi getting smoked by Seattle's Kerney. I think Levi had a bad ankle then, but who else were we gonna play?

Other way around we ran the ball quite well the first few games and then slacked off IIRC.

I remember several of us had predicted a bad start while the OL adjusted to a new coach and new personnel and we were all amazed at how well they run blocked early under Grimm. Then injuries seemed to derail the run blocking.

 

[Redheart]

I think the majority of us are celebrating the 2-0 start, or did you think we became Cowboys fans because Kurt is starting?

Awsome Russ, I quit reading the thread after that. What was the point?

Congratulations to Warner for a hell of a game. He was at home in a dome with two pro-bowl receivers; he should have had a good game, but he had a great one.

 

[gnomepete]

I'm old enough to remember . . .

when QB's 'apprenticed' for 3 - 5 years before starting as the rule rather than the exception. It sure seemed to cut down on the on-field learning curve.

Here's hoping Kurt keeps kickin' it and Matt soaks up the knowledge.

It's about time (long past maybe?) this franchise got a run of good luck.

Pete