Knicks @ Suns Friday game thread 12-15-2023

[BooksOrangePlanet]

We're not ditching Durant - never gonna happen - and I am very appreciative of this - we have more talent on this team than the new apron is currently designed to allow - that's not disastrous that is lucky - and plenty of time left to gel imo

 

[Bufalay]

This drives me crazy on every possession. Every possession.

The few possessions that he decides to run the ball up the floor seem to end with him getting wide open layups.

 

[Bufalay]

Actually they do.

It will never happen, but the correct decision would be to pull the plug on the Durant experiment now. It's not working, it's not going to work, and the longer the Suns hold onto him as a depreciating asset, the worse of a hole they are digging for themselves.

I'm not saying that Durant is the problem with this year's team. He isn't. He's playing at a high level and has been healthy. But he's not the solution either. He's not a leader, and for all of his alleged chemistry with Booker off the court, on the court they seem like strangers.

Beal is a sunk cost, but the rest of the roster has fair-value contracts. They could get things back on track in a few years, maybe, if they gave themselves more assets to work with. The time is now to cut their losses with Durant, whose value will only get lower from here.

If they trade Durant they might as well trade booker too

 

[Covert Rain]

I thought about this, but I think trading Durant is a disastrous course of action. Let’s see what it nets us:

We lose 2025, 2027, and 2029 draft picks.

We have swaps for the intervening first round draft picks, so bottoming out for better picks won’t be of value. They won’t be high picks like Oklahoma City had to acquire their top end talent.

Only a contender is going to trade for Durant. So we aren’t getting premium picks from them. It would have to be a third team that wants something the acquiring contender has on their roster. Such a deal isn’t all that likely.

Jettisoning Durant for picks means sticking book with an injured beal. That’s a nonstarter. He’s going to want to want out. Now he’s a premium trade asset in his prime. But again wherever he goes likely becomes better. In other words those picks aren’t likely to be premium either.

The only upside i foresee is all the money off the books. Makes the suns able to trade for bloated contracts with picks attached ala OKC.

In other words we end up awful but without our own premium picks to show for it. We end up with a buttload of additional picks, but they’re all likely in the 20+ range. And we have to wait until 2030 before our awfulness can actually pay off in any high draft pick.

I think we are stuck playing this out with changes like:

Maybe nurk’s contract can draw draw someone.

Trades around the edges.

New coach

It’s a bleak picture. But I’m still not totally sold that the current construction is a disaster. It is if the three just never play a string of games together. It is if this team never develops any cohesion. But we haven’t even been to see what that might be yet. Skeptical it comes together under Vogel at this point. But uncertain who can ride outta the wings as a replacement.

If the Suns can’t trade Durant for another huge piece to play alongside him you just guaranteed Book is leaving when his current contract is up or set him up to demand a trade.

The Suns have no choice but to see this through now with the cap situation. It was in all in move. Book is NOT going to go through another rebuild. No way. If you blow this up? You are starting over without Book.

Durant has for most of the year playing like his old self. This isn’t a Durant problem. The Lakers may have been right about Vogel.

 

[Hoop Head]

For those who say we shouldn't trade Durant, he asked out of Brooklyn when they struggled. What's to say he won't do that here? If he demands a trade then we'll get pennies on the dollar because there isn't a sucker out there with Isiah Thomas in his ear looking to make a splash.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If they trade Durant they might as well trade booker too

Yeah I think that's pretty much a given. I've considered it a given since the trade for KD. At some point, we are likely to be as bad as we've ever been and that point isn't so far in the future. I can't see us putting Devin through that kind of rebuild again, not when he's one of the few movable assets we have that actually has real value. But I still have slim hopes that we can win a title before this happens.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns better get really good at scouting free agents and what amounts to second round picks because that is what is likely coming their way.

No one is coming to rescue this team.

Btw, at least get rid of Kevin Young because bad offense leads to bad defense... those turnovers and contested shots.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

For those who say we shouldn't trade Durant, he asked out of Brooklyn when they struggled. What's to say he won't do that here? If he demands a trade then we'll get pennies on the dollar because there isn't a sucker out there with Isiah Thomas in his ear looking to make a splash.

The should or shouldn't opinions can be debated until the cows come home - what I'm saying is a KD trade is not gonna happen - I also don't see us being able to move Bol Bol btw

The most I see happening is us some how making room and signing a player who becomes available in the future - hopefully a solid PG or a physical PF - other than that I think we're going with this squad

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns better get really good at scouting free agents and what amounts to second round picks because that is what is likely coming their way.

No one is coming to rescue this team.

Btw, at least get rid of Kevin Young because bad offense leads to bad defense... those turnovers and contested shots.

You realize they literally have a first round pick THIS SEASON, right?

 

[Mainstreet]

The should or shouldn't opinions can be debated until the cows come home - what I'm saying is it's not gonna happen - I also don't see us being able to move Bol Bol btw

The most I see happening is us some how making room and signing a player who becomes available in the future - hopefully a solid PG or a physical PF - other than that I think we're going with this squad

The Suns can waive Bol Bol if there are no takers.

Trading Durant doesn't make any more sense than when the Suns traded their future for him.

Hire scouts and lots of them and overpay for their expertise.

 

[Mainstreet]

Unless the Suns find a player they really like with their remaining first round picks, they'd probably be wise to trade down on draft day for additional second round picks.

This is where scouting is critical. A G-League team would help as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Mavericks are playing fairly well with Dante Exum and he played the previous two seasons in Spain.

Yes, there are players out there that can help this team, at least more than Bol Bol.

 

[Hoop Head]

The should or shouldn't opinions can be debated until the cows come home - what I'm saying is it's not gonna happen - I also don't see us being able to move Bol Bol btw

The most I see happening is us some how making room and signing a player who becomes available in the future - hopefully a solid PG or a physical PF - other than that I think we're going with this squad

Bol Bol won't make it through February with this team. He's either going to be dealt for a 2nd round pick, another minimum player, or waived outright. His days are numbered.

 

[1982baskets]

I wouldn't trade Durant, def not Booker, yet. I would look to try and trade for someone like Caruso, or any kind of defensive leader at the point guard. Someone who doesn't need the ball on offense, but can handle it a bit, but on defense is a huge asset. This will change the way this team can play. I would swap Grayson Allen for Caruso in a second, but I don't see why the Bulls would do that. We need players that can defend and would move off the ball on offense. Booker is fine as a closing PG, I really think despite the issues it can work.

The main issue I see is we're 20th in the league on defense. You won't get defense with Booker, Allen, Gordon (Or even Beal in there) style lineups. You need someone like Goodwin, who can stop the ball. Goodwin though just isn't a starting caliber player. So we need to trade for one.

If the Suns can build a top 10 defense, they will contend with Book/Durant. Book/Durant are enough on offense. It's just our defense is really isn't any good, most of the time.

 

[95pro]

The Suns better get really good at scouting free agents and what amounts to second round picks because that is what is likely coming their way.

No one is coming to rescue this team.

Btw, at least get rid of Kevin Young because bad offense leads to bad defense... those turnovers and contested shots.

I've stated this as well, this is just a repeat of what we saw last season on the offensive side even though we have some veteran shooters in Allen and Gordon. And imo the rest of the cast has been upgraded as well.