I am not saying Colt is great (he is not) but..

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
14,357
Reaction score
22,246
Location
UK
A) that interception was on colt. The ball is behind Conner.
B) I think kyler still loses this game, but I’m unsure about the “any better” because of his wheels (if he was healthy). It’s an added component that the niners would have had to gameplan and it’s an X factor that just doesn’t exist with mccoy. Let’s be honest, kylers legs are the single explosive weapon this team has.
C) it’s easy to say you would have excused him, but the rhetoric on this board really says otherwise.

And no, I’m not a kyler apologist. He has flat out sucked and I’ve beaten him up consistently about not being a student of the game. But I think those whose sole focus has been kyler denigration can’t seem to find any blame elsewhere. My personality trait that seeks balance can’t help but point out skewed arguments, hyperbole and hypocrisy.

It was on Conner.

He's stood still here and staring at McCoy.

You could argue it's a little high but Conner really should be catching that.

You must be registered for see images attach



Here he is stood still watching it leave McCoy's hand if in any doubt. He saw it the whole way, he should be catching it.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
14,357
Reaction score
22,246
Location
UK
Sorry, but I disagree. If McCoy is so prepared, and your convinced that Murray isn’t, then why the hell did we get our butts handed to us last night? It’s because we got destroyed in the trenches. That’s why. And why are you certain that Murray‘s attitude is that he knows everything, and that he isn’t putting in the work to improve??? In the 3 games he played in once Hop got back, he completed over 70%, 6 tds / 2 picks, and a passer rating over 100, and sadly, he was our leading rusher during that stretch. So, hard to argue that he wasn’t in improvement mode until the injury. Do I think he would have won with Murray last night? Absolutely not! And it wouldn’t be because Murray was or wasn’t prepared. It’s because the Niners would dominate the trenches regardless of who the QB was.

Because McCoy can't play defense? You're equating result with QB performance.

MyCoy has completed 70% of his passes for a higher YPA than Kyler against defenses ranked 7th and 16th vs DVOA. All with a LG signed and C signed off the sofa. A Backup LT. And a rookie RG playing his first NFL snaps. No Ertz in either. No Ertz or Rondale on Monday.

Kyler, in every game this season, has been poor. Even the ones we won. Missed reads, massively innacurate past 10 yards. Lowest YPA in the league.

MyCoy has been far better, even in Monday's defeat.

Being poor in the trenches only increases the importance of being prepared. It doesn't negate it.

It's why McCoy beat the Rams when Kyler couldn't.
 
Last edited:

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
7,934
Reaction score
3,138
Location
Scarsdale, NY
The difference is when the 49ers were losing their GM and got busy building their lines on both side of the ball while we were drafting 2 tiny Wr and a TE.
So they have a winning GM that overcomes a losing HC. Imagine how good they'd be if they hire a good HC.
 

schutd

ASFN Addict
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
5,843
Reaction score
943
Location
Charleston, SC
This is correct. The roster as a whole is so below average and the coaching is so poor that the only shot we have at consistently beating good teams is a superhuman effort by a QB. Colt isn't capable and Kyler has checked out so...
While youre correct in your assessment of both the team, and the need for one player to save our asses, this is giving Kyler too much credit. Saying he checked out is akin to saying, he was good enough to get it done, and then stopped trying because the situation around him is futile. He hasnt even done that yet. we've seen flashes of brilliance, and a 10 game run where we thought it was all coming together, and thats it. He hasnt proven anything. Ever.

And that seems to be the problem on this board. Everyone is moving culpability around and putting it at the doorstep of one or the other. Save for a handful of people on this board , no one is willing to say its a sweet cocktail of equal parts poopjuice from all three K's, led to water by the king of doofuses, Bidwill.

We are so screwed.
 

schutd

ASFN Addict
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
5,843
Reaction score
943
Location
Charleston, SC
I’m holding anyone that takes the field and snaps for a week in practice and in a game to the same standard because it’s football and $$ doesn’t impact a damn thing on the field.
You cant believe this. Money, for veterans on their second or third, or even fourth contracts ALWAYS dictates the expectations of their ability on the field. Please.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
14,357
Reaction score
22,246
Location
UK
While youre correct in your assessment of both the team, and the need for one player to save our asses, this is giving Kyler too much credit. Saying he checked out is akin to saying, he was good enough to get it done, and then stopped trying because the situation around him is futile. He hasnt even done that yet. we've seen flashes of brilliance, and a 10 game run where we thought it was all coming together, and thats it. He hasnt proven anything. Ever.

And that seems to be the problem on this board. Everyone is moving culpability around and putting it at the doorstep of one or the other. Save for a handful of people on this board , no one is willing to say its a sweet cocktail of equal parts poopjuice from all three K's, led to water by the king of doofuses, Bidwill.

We are so screwed.

This is the problem. You say "Kyler sucks" and people say "Well what about Keim, Kliff, the O line, the defense, Mikey B" etc etc

Sure, in one way or another all those things have issues too. That doesn't absolve Kyler of independently sucking. None of them are any excuse for Kyler sucking.

If Kyler was making good reads and going through progressions and hitting the open guy 20 yards downfield on the 80% of plays he is kept clean then you could argue about the 20% he isn't. But he's not.

And I talk about Kyler predominantly because if you rank all the issues in order Kyler is by far the biggest and it's not even close. All the others together don't even add up to how big an issue he has been.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
8,459
Reaction score
7,575
Location
York, PA
Because McCoy can't play defense? You're equating result with QB performance.

MyCoy has completed 70% of his passes for a higher YPA than Kyler against defenses ranked 7th and 16th vs DVOA. All with a LG signed and C signed off the sofa. A Backup LT. And a rookie RG playing his first NFL snaps. No Ertz in either. No Ertz or Rondale on Monday.

Kyler, in every game this season, have been poor. Even the ones we won. Missed reads, massively innacurate past 10 yards. Lowest YPA in the league.

MyCoy has been far better, even in Monday's defeat.

Being poor in the trenches on increases the importance of being prepared. It doesn't negate it.

It's why McCoy beat the Rams when Kyler couldn't.
That was not the same Rams team that beat us 20-12. Not even close. Murray would have easily put up 30 on that team we played two weeks ago. Much, much, much different team with Stafford on the sideline. And the Rams D has quit since the Niners put a whooping on them a few weeks back. McCoy has always been a bright guy, and he can prepare better than most starters in this league, but his noodle arm has always been the reason why he’s nothing but a journeyman. Murray is the QB of this team, so it’s silly for us to even have this discussion. Bottom line, the QB position is not the reason why we’re a bad football team. Our OL is horrendous, as is our defense as a whole. Add KK & VJ to the mix, and only a few QB’s in this league would fare any better.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
14,357
Reaction score
22,246
Location
UK
That was not the same Rams team that beat us 20-12. Not even close. Murray would have easily put up 30 on that team we played two weeks ago. Much, much, much different team with Stafford on the sideline. And the Rams D has quit since the Niners put a whooping on them a few weeks back. McCoy has always been a bright guy, and he can prepare better than most starters in this league, but his noodle arm has always been the reason why he’s nothing but a journeyman. Murray is the QB of this team, so it’s silly for us to even have this discussion. Bottom line, the QB position is not the reason why we’re a bad football team. Our OL is horrendous, as is our defense as a whole. Add KK & VJ to the mix, and only a few QB’s in this league would fare any better.

Your right, it's not the same Rams team.

In the first game the Rams had multiple cornerbacks out. David Long, Jordan Fuller, Cobie Durant and Troy Hill were all out.

They had a guy off the PS playing slot and a rookie taking his first snaps outside opposite Ramsey. All those guys were back last week.

And with all those guys out we still didn't score a touchdown and only scored 12 against a team averaging 23 conceded per game. The only team to score less were the Panthers in PJ Walkers first game starting.

So no, I don't believe for 1 second Kyler would have done better in the 2nd game. Although I am 100% sure Colt would have won the first.
 

urs

Veteran
Joined
Sep 15, 2021
Posts
359
Reaction score
854
Location
Carefree
It was on Conner.

He's stood still here and staring at McCoy.

You could argue it's a little high but Conner really should be catching that.

You must be registered for see images attach



Here he is stood still watching it leave McCoy's hand if in any doubt. He saw it the whole way, he should be catching it.

You must be registered for see images attach
He stood so still he warped 3 feet to the left from the bottom picture to the top.
 

GoldGloveschmidt

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Posts
3,699
Reaction score
5,469
He stood so still he warped 3 feet to the left from the bottom picture to the top.

Lol. Don't let reality get in the way of a good kyler hating narrative. Conner wasn't moving to the left, the ball wasn't thrown behind him to the point where all he could do was stick an arm out backwards to try to corral it. Colt McGOAT is perfect in all ways and Kyler would have probably ran all the way back to the end zone on that play and laid down for a safety.
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
6,231
Reaction score
3,917
Location
Home of the Thunder
While youre correct in your assessment of both the team, and the need for one player to save our asses, this is giving Kyler too much credit. Saying he checked out is akin to saying, he was good enough to get it done, and then stopped trying because the situation around him is futile. He hasnt even done that yet. we've seen flashes of brilliance, and a 10 game run where we thought it was all coming together, and thats it. He hasnt proven anything. Ever.

And that seems to be the problem on this board. Everyone is moving culpability around and putting it at the doorstep of one or the other. Save for a handful of people on this board , no one is willing to say its a sweet cocktail of equal parts poopjuice from all three K's, led to water by the king of doofuses, Bidwill.

We are so screwed.

I think you are 100% right. This team is failing at every single level. Even, and incredibly, my favorite player K1 is playing well below expectations.

So I think we have to ask ourselves “why?”. Why is everything broken?

And obviously I think you have to look at our leaders, and ask why each of our leaders is not functioning effectively.

Why is Steve Keim broken? To close to his boss? Maybe.

Why is Kliff Kingsbury broken? In over his head? Maybe.

Why is K1 broken? Doesn’t respect his boss? Maybe.

Starts at the top though. I’m trying to stay rational, and to at least give keim and K2 to the end of the season. But If we finish 5-12, I think they should both be gone.

And no I don’t want Wilson. If we make a change Id like some new blood and some discipline at the GM and HC positions.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
8,459
Reaction score
7,575
Location
York, PA
Your right, it's not the same Rams team.

In the first game the Rams had multiple cornerbacks out. David Long, Jordan Fuller, Cobie Durant and Troy Hill were all out.

They had a guy off the PS playing slot and a rookie taking his first snaps outside opposite Ramsey. All those guys were back last week.

And with all those guys out we still didn't score a touchdown and only scored 12 against a team averaging 23 conceded per game. The only team to score less were the Panthers in PJ Walkers first game starting.

So no, I don't believe for 1 second Kyler would have done better in the 2nd game. Although I am 100% sure Colt would have won the first.
We will have to agree to disagree. Murray did throw for over 300 yards, with Brown getting 140. Moore was out, Pugh got hurt early, as did Green, Lawrence, and Collins. KK was atrocious with his play calls, our running game was brutally bad. Exactly why we had to settle for 4 field goals. We’ll have to just wait and see how it all plays out with Murray. Whether some on board want to admit, Murray has still accomplished numbers that very few 25 year old QB’s do in the NFL. Especially for a completely dysfunctional organization.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
14,357
Reaction score
22,246
Location
UK
We will have to agree to disagree. Murray did throw for over 300 yards, with Brown getting 140. Moore was out, Pugh got hurt early, as did Green, Lawrence, and Collins. KK was atrocious with his play calls, our running game was brutally bad. Exactly why we had to settle for 4 field goals. We’ll have to just wait and see how it all plays out with Murray. Whether some on board want to admit, Murray has still accomplished numbers that very few 25 year old QB’s do in the NFL. Especially for a completely dysfunctional organization.

Well all those things were wrong at the same time or it was just Kyler. I'll go with the simple answer. I'd do a breakdown showing all the bad plays in that first Rams game but I've done enough and more than proved that point.
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
42,522
Reaction score
6,129
Jet fan, a friend, says that he'd be willing to trade Wilson for Kyler straight up, but the team wants Arizona to throw in a draft pick. Points out all the salary that Arizona would save. He's interested what Cardinals' fans think.
I think he is higher than a kite.
 

Dayman

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Posts
4,891
Reaction score
4,031
Location
Portland, Oregon
Well all those things were wrong at the same time or it was just Kyler. I'll go with the simple answer. I'd do a breakdown showing all the bad plays in that first Rams game but I've done enough and more than proved that point.
You're about 2 weeks away from making a thread about how you are a better QB than Kyler.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
31,362
Reaction score
13,175
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Jet fan, a friend, says that he'd be willing to trade Wilson for Kyler straight up, but the team wants Arizona to throw in a draft pick. Points out all the salary that Arizona would save. He's interested what Cardinals' fans think.
I don’t think that’s a serious trade offer. Zach Wilson is more Drew Lock than whomever your friend thinks he is.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
18,042
Reaction score
6,217
Location
Chandler, Az
I don’t think that’s a serious trade offer. Zach Wilson is more Drew Lock than whomever your friend thinks he is.
Jets fan clearly has no clue. Wilson is worse than Drew Lock. Plus there is no way the Cardinals could afford the Cap hit from trading Kyler with all that Signing bonus accelerating to next year.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
52,091
Reaction score
38,376
Location
SoCal
Who said anything about Kyler? I was referring to McCoy and the challenges he had last night. You Kyler apologists are coming unglued.
Lol. Not a kyler apologist. I’ve done my fair share of blaming kyler. Hell, I’m the leader of the kyler isn’t studying enough bandwagon dating back to his genius comments about it. But everything revolving around the QB position on this team has become relative between the two these days.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
492,372
Posts
4,890,456
Members
6,172
Latest member
ccw24
Top