? From Broncos fan...Are you rootin for Jake in the playoffs?

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by OrangeCrush
So its safe to say your brother's co-worker will NOT be rooting for Jake. If he does find Jake...Please let him break the left ulna or radius not the humorus(sp?)...no compound breaks either.

The guy quit pulling for the Cards because of Jake...

 

[Lex]

Krang-

Your posts in this thread fit your avatar to a tee.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Lex
Krang-

Your posts in this thread fit your avatar to a tee.

And I couldn't care less what you think.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I disagree. Sure Jake has had some success with the Broncos, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire either.

OH.. REALLY! WHAT'S HIS WIN/LOSS RECORD? AND, WHAT'S DENVERS'S WIN/LOSS RECORD WITHOUT HIM? (it is the only numbers that truly matter!)

The guy plays in one of the least sophisticated pass offenses in the league.

AND WHAT'S YOUR POINT?

IF IT'S SO UNSOPHISTICATED WHY HASN'T THE LEAGUE STOPPED IT? AND, IF IT'S SO EASY TO RUN, ETC... WHY WEREN'T HIS BACKUPS MORE SUCCESSFUL RUNNING IT?

He also has given the fans in Denver more effort; it has been reported that Jake never watched film and never attended offseason workouts here.

IT'S BEEN REPORTED? IT'S MORE LIKE IT'S RUMOURED!!! (The one source being some local jock sniffing radio personality)

That alone makes me hope he fails;

BASED ON NOTHING MUCH MORE THAN GOSSIP... YOU WISH HE FAILS... OK...FINE!!!

he never worked hard to win here

REALLLY...

I NEVER SAW THE GUY SHORTCHANGE THIS TEAM IN TERMS OF EFFORT...

and any fan of this team should take that as a slap in the face considering the support we gave him, and the money our team
paid him.

WELL, I'M ONE OF THE "ANY FANS", OVER 30 YEARS TO BE PRECISE, AND I DON'T FEEL CHEATED BY JAKE... AND I DON'T SPEAK FOR HOW MR. B... SPENDS HIS MONEY... AND NEITHER DO YOU...

 

[OrangeCrush]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I disagree. Sure Jake has had some success with the Broncos, but he isn't exactly lighting the world on fire either. The guy plays in one of the least sophisticated pass offenses in the league.

He also has given the fans in Denver more effort; it has been reported that Jake never watched film and never attended offseason workouts here.

That alone makes me hope he fails; he never worked hard to win here, and any fan of this team should take that as a slap in the face considering the support we gave him, and the money our team paid him.

Point taken. But Shanny's not asking him to "light the world on fire". Its no secret our offense is built around C.Portis. So asking Jake to hit Rod Smith on a fly pattern is not in the play book. So yes the offense has been "simplified" for him to some point. As far as the effort put forth from Jake while he was in AZ. I obviously wouldn't know. But there are 2 sides to every story. Maybe his work ethic is a reflection of management or coaching. Just MHO.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by OrangeCrush
Point taken. But Shanny's not asking him to "light the world on fire". Its no secret our offense is built around C.Portis. So asking Jake to hit Rod Smith on a fly pattern is not in the play book. So yes the offense has been "simplified" for him to some point. As far as the effort put forth from Jake while he was in AZ. I obviously wouldn't know. But there are 2 sides to every story. Maybe his work ethic is a reflection of management or coaching. Just MHO.

The Cards coaching staff didn't hold Jake accountable for his terrible play. Any QB in any other city would've been benched if they were as bad as Plummer was here.

The pro-Plummer guys here blamed everyone but Jake; but Jake was his own self enemy, and the coaching staff allowed him to be.

I give Shanny credit for Jake. Total credit. Jake is playing better than he really is, and it is a testament to how good Shanny is (and also how bad Griese is).

Jake is a good complimentary piece, and he fits well in Shanny's philosophy. I give Jake that respect. But the claims of the pro-Plummer crowd around here are ridiculous.

Jake isn't a superstar, but he can be successful with the right players around him. Elway on the other hand made the players around him better.

 

[100%CardsFan]

I like when Jake "adjusted" his crotch and flipped the Westside crowd the bird! and then tried to say he was saying it to another player who said something about his mom. The "I dont give a rats ass" was also good....ahh the memories. But then again we did get to go to the playoffs in '98 and he did have alot to do with that.

 

[jhutch34]

All of you Jake bashers are freakin idoits! He did great things for the Devils, and he got the Cards the first playoff win of my lifetime. I hope he does well and I wish him success when he plays everyone except the Cards.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
The Cards coaching staff didn't hold Jake accountable for his terrible play. Any QB in any other city would've been benched if they were as bad as Plummer was here.

The pro-Plummer guys here blamed everyone but Jake; but Jake was his own self enemy, and the coaching staff allowed him to be.

I give Shanny credit for Jake. Total credit. Jake is playing better than he really is, and it is a testament to how good Shanny is (and also how bad Griese is).

Jake is a good complimentary piece, and he fits well in Shanny's philosophy. I give Jake that respect. But the claims of the pro-Plummer crowd around here are ridiculous.

Jake isn't a superstar, but he can be successful with the right players around him. Elway on the other hand made the players around him better.

It takes a rather inventive mind to deny the obvious. Jake has made a positive difference in Denver. The record shows it... and the stats support it.

Of course, if Denver doesn't win the Super Bowl, we can look forward to a barrage of "Krang the Spam' reasoning on how Jake was the problem; no doubt - supported by "Russ the Stat".

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Northern Card
It takes a rather inventive mind to deny the obvious. Jake has made a positive difference in Denver. The record shows it... and the stats support it.

Of course, if Denver doesn't win the Super Bowl, we can look forward to a barrage of "Krang the Spam' reasoning on how Jake was the problem; no doubt - supported by "Russ the Stat".

A positive difference as a freakin' role player. He is more like Trent Dilfer with the Ravens than Kurt Warner with the Rams.

It takes a rather inventive mind to deny the obvious. Jake Plummer is a compliementary player, not a star. More like Phil Simms than John Elway.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by jhutch34
All of you Jake bashers are freakin idoits! He did great things for the Devils, and he got the Cards the first playoff win of my lifetime. I hope he does well and I wish him success when he plays everyone except the Cards.

freakin "idoits"?

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain


A positive difference as a freakin' role player. He is more like Trent Dilfer with the Ravens than Kurt Warner with the Rams.

It takes a rather inventive mind to deny the obvious. Jake Plummer is a compliementary player, not a star. More like Phil Simms than John Elway.

First time, I've heard of a first string QB, described as a "role player".

Should he win a Super Bowl, I'm sure Jake won't have any problem with having his name associated with Dilfer and Simms... and not be favourably compared to say Marino, Moon - and other greats - who share the destinction of never having won the big one.

Kurt Warner... oh yeah... the backup in St. Louis... forgot him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Northern Card
First time, I've heard of a first string QB, described as a "role player".

Well is he a superstar QB? No he is not. Jake isn't a 30 TD per season QB. But can he fill the role of a QB that hands off a lot, completes play action passes, and scrambles when needed? Yes he can. But he isn't a superstar QB (and not worth 6+ million per season).

Originally posted by Northern Card
Should he win a Super Bowl, I'm sure Jake won't have any problem with having his name associated with Dilfer and Simms... and not be favourably compared to say Marino, Moon - and other greats - who share the destinction of never having won the big one.

Marino/Moon never had the advantage of having great teams surrounding them. From the way you make it sound, it's as if Marino and Moon cost their teams the chance to win the big game, while Simms and Dilfer won the games for them.

Originally posted by Northern Card
Kurt Warner... oh yeah... the backup in St. Louis... forgot him.

Backup smackup. Kurt Warner in 2-3 years, has more 1st half tds (more than twice as many) than Jake's entire 7 year career.

The fact of the matter, is that Jake WAS a part of the problem here. But he has improved under Shanahan, and it has revealed more systemic problems here. But Jake's work ethic improved in Denver according to numerous team insiders.

Jake was used as a franchise QB here, but in Denver he is more of a Trent Dilfer/Phil Simmsesque caretaker QB, and he has been marvelous (better than Simms/Dilfer) in that role. He is a flawed player, but those flaws can be overcome, and Shanny has done a terrific job disguising those flaws and playing to Plummer's strengths.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by Northern Card
... and not be favourably compared to say... Moon

I would hope Jake wouldn't want to be compared to a wifebeater, ring or no ring.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by jhutch34
All of you Jake bashers are freakin idoits!

I agree with Krang - that sentence is one of the funniest ever posted on this site.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Brian in Mesa


I agree with Krang - that sentence is one of the funniest ever posted on this site.

Even an idiot wouldn't spell idiot wrong, so I wonder what that makes him?

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain

Well is he a superstar QB? No he is not.

Interesting how you ask and answer questions that have never been asked. That's inventive, and avoids you having to explain what you meant by Jake being a "role player'.

Let me help you out. To the extent that every player has a role...the QB is a role player... therefore, Jake is a role player.

But, of course that's not how you meant it. Your reference to "caretaker" is more in keeping with your thinking, I imagine.

Given that you can't really explain the "role player" reference, perhaps you can clear-up "caretaker".

Is he holding down the job for someone? Who?

As for Jake's value. Well, let's see: He makes some 3 times more than our current CARDS QB and he's got 3 times as many wins.

Seems to me (and probably the Broncos) they're getting what they paid for... and so are the CARDS.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Northern Card



Interesting how you ask and answer questions that have never been asked. That's inventive, and avoids you having to explain what you meant by Jake being a "role player'.

Why do you keep saying inventive?

The only people that must get inventive are Jake apologist crowd. Explain away four years of miserable failure, and one decent year. I'd love to hear it, though I know it will be the same tired, uncovincing arguments.

Originally posted by Northern Card
Let me help you out. To the extent that every player has a role...the QB is a role player... therefore, Jake is a role player.

No, no, no....let Me help you out. You obviously don't understand what the term role player means in sports. Remember the Chicago Bulls championship teams? Horace Grant was a role player, Michael Jordan was a superstar. Robert Parrish was a role player, Scottie Pippen was a superstar.

Who is the super star on the Broncos?

Clinton Portis.

Originally posted by Northern Card
But, of course that's not how you meant it. Your reference to "caretaker" is more in keeping with your thinking, I imagine..

Nope that's not how I meant it. Not my fault that you aren't familiar with the term "role player".

Originally posted by Northern Card
Given that you can't really explain the "role player" reference, perhaps you can clear-up "caretaker".

I can explain it, which I did above. Caretaker- a player that holds a position down and does the job that's asked of them, but shouldn't have to worry about the team's success being place on their backs.

Originally posted by Northern Card
Is he holding down the job for someone? Who?

I couldn't care less who. I'm not a Broncos fan. I'm a Cards fan.

Originally posted by Northern Card
As for Jake's value. Well, let's see: He makes some 3 times more than our current CARDS QB and he's got 3 times as many wins.

Seems to me (and probably the Broncos) they're getting what they paid for... and so are the CARDS.

In a game of individuals this might be true. Jake has a much, much better team around him. Few teams in the league can boast the offensive talent that Broncos have.

 

[Northern Card]

Well, thanks for your definition of terms.

Funny thing I spent 10 years making my living in sport, and I thought I knew the difference between a guy just holding down a job; a role player; a caretaker; a star; a superstar... and that compensation was based to a large degree on those definitions.

How wrong I was; too many pucks off the coconut, I guess.

I'm trying to imagine Jake's agent last year saying: "Guys - I got a role player for you... a caretaker, if you prefer... for the low-low price of 6m a year..."

JAKE must be the highest paid role player / caretaker in the history of sport.

And not bad at it too.

Given that the Denver won only one game when he was out... and last week kicked Indy's butt without their superstar - Portis.

By the way; if Jake is a role player / caretaker - what does one call a second or third string QB given your definitions?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by Northern Card
As for Jake's value. Well, let's see: He makes some 3 times more than our current CARDS QB and he's got 3 times as many wins.

Current Cards QB: Josh McCown.

Number of Josh McCown wins: 0.

3 times that number: 0.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

hmmmm.

How can I rile up the ASFN board? Maybe I'll start a thread with the words "Jake Plummer" in it.

works every time. Of course I have to throw my 2 cents in.


I was full-on in the "jake must go" camp at the end of 02'. Now, I'm starting to have doubts if that was the correct move.

Jake has exceeded my expectations of his success in Denver. You can say all the "blah blah blah" you want about better players and better coaches, but Jake has achieved a level of consistency that he never displayed in Arizona.

Yes, throwing to Shannon Sharpe makes you look better as opposed to throwing Freddie Jones. Yes, a running attack featuring the donks offensive line and (insert broncos running back name here) makes a qb look better vs. handing off to Shipp. Yes Shannahan is an offensive genius compared to Macginnes.

But that does not change what my eyes have seen everytime I have watched Jake play this year (which is quite a bit since I've got the ticket on satellite).

Everytime I watch Jake he is making throws right on the money, hitting receivers in stride, putting deep balls where only his receiver can catch them, and getting enough on the 15 "hook" route throws so that they don't get picked off.

He's making plays with his feet when he needs to, and is taking much better care of the ball.

The question I think we have to ask ourselves as cardinal's fans is: If the cardinals could have gotten their stuff together, could Jake have played this well for us? I think the answer is, possibly, yes.

I will close by saying that Jake has played well for most of one season. This story is not over.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Crimson Warrior
hmmmm.

How can I rile up the ASFN board? Maybe I'll start a thread with the words "Jake Plummer" in it.

works every time. Of course I have to throw my 2 cents in.


I was full-on in the "jake must go" camp at the end of 02'. Now, I'm starting to have doubts if that was the correct move.

Jake has exceeded my expectations of his success in Denver. You can say all the "blah blah blah" you want about better players and better coaches, but Jake has achieved a level of consistency that he never displayed in Arizona.

Yes, throwing to Shannon Sharpe makes you look better as opposed to throwing Freddie Jones. Yes, a running attack featuring the donks offensive line and (insert broncos running back name here) makes a qb look better vs. handing off to Shipp. Yes Shannahan is an offensive genius compared to Macginnes.

But that does not change what my eyes have seen everytime I have watched Jake play this year (which is quite a bit since I've got the ticket on satellite).

Everytime I watch Jake he is making throws right on the money, hitting receivers in stride, putting deep balls where only his receiver can catch them, and getting enough on the 15 "hook" route throws so that they don't get picked off.

He's making plays with his feet when he needs to, and is taking much better care of the ball.

The question I think we have to ask ourselves as cardinal's fans is: If the cardinals could have gotten their stuff together, could Jake have played this well for us? I think the answer is, possibly, yes.

I will close by saying that Jake has played well for most of one season. This story is not over.

Very well put....

 

[maddogkf]

Originally posted by jhutch34
All of you Jake bashers are freakin idoits! He did great things for the Devils, and he got the Cards the first playoff win of my lifetime. I hope he does well and I wish him success when he plays everyone except the Cards.

I'll bet you this guy has a shaved head, goatee, & wears a Plummer jersey to every game - like this guy:

 

[jhutch34]

Originally posted by maddogkf
I'll bet you this guy has a shaved head, goatee, & wears a Plummer jersey to every game - like this guy:

At least it's not a Thomas Jones jersey!

 

[jf-08]

Originally posted by jhutch34
At least it's not a Thomas Jones jersey!

Yeah, Thomas Jones - HA...........oh wait