hcsilla
ASFN Lifer
Bad news is the market is probably very limited for his services. Most of teams have at least as promising center prospects as Len is.
Extension for Alex Len?
- Thread starter Hoop Head
- Start date
Bad news is the market is probably very limited for his services. Most of teams have at least as promising center prospects as Len is.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 35,989
- Reaction score
- 14,792
Yeah there probably isn't much of a market for him. But I think if we had still believed in him we would have already wrapped him up. As it appears we have serious doubts, it's better to walk away now rather than continuing to waste time on a player that just hasn't shown much improvement.
At this point, I'd rather we focus our teaching efforts towards Williams along with giving him the court time that would have gone to Len. He's really just a 6 foot shot away from being able to earn his minutes whether in a starting role or as a backup.
Errntknght
Registered User
I'm not ready to give up on him but I'm getting close... I want to wait a dozen or so games into the season so he has time to settle down... Gobert made him look foolish out there. He didn't even show flashes in that game.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 35,989
- Reaction score
- 14,792
Gobert is something special but Len's lack of focus and effort was embarrassing. Unless it comes out that Alex was struggling with a cold or something, I just think it's better to walk away from someone like him. Inconsistent results is one thing but we can't afford what I saw last night. I'm sure he'll follow it up with a good game but the knock on him in college was that he'd completely disappear some games and that doesn't seem to have changed.
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2011
- Posts
- 5,710
- Reaction score
- 754
Bender is Len. Len is Bender.
There is no such thing as a project.
As I sit here typing Im absolute trash at soccer. Ive no foot coordination. If I go out back and practice every day, Ill improve. But not in this lifestime will I improve enough to compete with Professional soccer players.
That is my Len/Bender analogy. They might improve, but theyll never be good enough to compete in the NBA.
There is no such thing as a project.
As I sit here typing Im absolute trash at soccer. Ive no foot coordination. If I go out back and practice every day, Ill improve. But not in this lifestime will I improve enough to compete with Professional soccer players.
That is my Len/Bender analogy. They might improve, but theyll never be good enough to compete in the NBA.
Chaplin
Better off silent
I can give you that opinion on Len. But not on Bender. Not yet, at least. 2 preseason games don't exactly show how special or mediocre a player will be. People forget Devin Booker didn't tear it up in preseason last year.
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2011
- Posts
- 5,710
- Reaction score
- 754
completely different. Booker was just a rookie. Bender looks like an uncoordinated 7 footer playing the sport of basketball for the first time in his life.
Ive no idea in this world what scouts are talking about when they praise his athletic ability. I dont even see that. He looks cumbersome
Chaplin
Better off silent
What? Booker was just a rookie? So is Bender!
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2011
- Posts
- 5,710
- Reaction score
- 754
Booker looked like a basketball player out there. Bender doesnt. Thats the difference.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
This is why I thought it was funny when it was said that the Suns should pay Alex Len $15M/yr.
StreetTruckinTitan
You talkin' to me?
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2014
- Posts
- 3,201
- Reaction score
- 1,784
People are finally coming to realize what Ive been saying about Len since we wasted a #5 pick on him. The guy has an NBA body but he doesnt have the tools or mental capacity it takes to consistently perform at a high level in this league. He kind of reminds me of Cotton's whipping boy Tim Perry. Athletic freak but had nothing going on upstairs. Earl Clark was the same way.
I wasnt happy about the #4 Bender pick either. Another highly risky project based on his lack of experience and stats from the Euro league. After saying that, he probably has more upside than Len at this early age. He def moves well and seems to have better hands and court awareness. Only time will tell.
Errntknght
Registered User
Gobert was a project who has improved a great deal - he looks more coordinated now and moves better than he started out. He's also grasped the mental aspect of the game far more than Len has. So it does happen - and Len showed bits of improvement then seemed to slide back rather than building on it.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 35,989
- Reaction score
- 14,792
The list of projects in the NBA is far too long to doubt there are no projects in the NBA.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 35,989
- Reaction score
- 14,792
Not giving him the 14 or 15M deal is part of why I'd cut bait with him. Although frustration over his heartless play against Utah had a lot to do with it too. I think he'll get in the mid teens from someone, if it's not going to be us I think I'd just as soon see us focus our teaching attention on players we still believe in. But 15M a year is nothing for an average backup center in this new market. Not that he's been an average backup yet.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
I just don't think so. A guy like Festus Ezili who has championship experience and played well for the best NBA reg season of all time when he started only got $8M/yr. He has similar injury concerns as Len. Meyers Leonard who is superior to Len in every way got $10M/yr. Miles Plumlee who everyone agreed for insanely overpaid got $13M/yr. Roy Hibbert got $5M/yr. The Lakers who overpay everyone only gave out $6M/yr for their backup C Black.
The only backup center that really fits what you're saying is Ian Mahimi who got $16M/yr from the Wizards but you can't look at that as the norm because Washington has one of the, if not the worst front office in the NBA. Not many or any teams are as stupid as them.
Unless some team thinks that Len can be a starter for them, nobody is going to give him $15M/yr.
Errntknght
Registered User
Far be it from me to predict what Len might get in the open market... I mean Miles P. getting 13M says it all - I wouldn't pay anything to have him back. (Incidentally the third Plumlee brother joined the league this year - Marshall.) Myers Leonard is a pretty good comp for Alex - sunfan88 exaggerated a fair bit, as he's not as good a rebounder as Alex is. Len has a higher profile around the league as a fifth pick which will play some role, too. Anyway, that gives Len a floor of about 10M now. A lot is going to depend on this season - if he does surprise us and show significant improvement he will draw serious interest while another year like the last one and he won't be much sought after. That certainly settles the issue of giving him an early extension for me - no way, if you're doubting what I mean.
JCSunsfan
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2002
- Posts
- 21,755
- Reaction score
- 6,140
Bender looks good, especially on defense. I am happy with what I see out of him.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 19,703
- Reaction score
- 10,520
I still think you guys are grossly over stating Len's potential contract value. Base stats make him look somewhat serviceable, but when you dig deeper he was flat out terrible last year. On the open market I suspect he'd get something like 2 years 16 mil, year 2 non-guaranteed.
FutureSuperstar
Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2013
- Posts
- 213
- Reaction score
- 1
The overreaction after 2 preseason games is funny. I don't know if you guys were just stat-watching, but very rarely did Gobert actually score over Len. I think it was like 1 hook shot in the beginning. The rest of the plays consisted of Pick & rolls / drives in which Len helped and the rotations were off. Like 1 play in the 2nd half Bledsoe lost his man under the basket so Len rotated as he should, then the player made an easy pass to Gobert ... So Len was left defending 2 players, and Gobert easily dunked over him. That play was totally on Bledsoe (Or you can say the Suns forward who didn't rotate to Gobert after Len had to cover up Bledsoe's mistake) but if you weren't watching the play closely all you saw was Gobert dunking over Len. There was a lot of that in the Jazz game where Len (being the last line of defense) looked bad because of failed rotations/communications by other players.
I mean defensively/rebounding/effort there's very little to criticize Len on - In terms of his play last year & going forward . Talk all you want about his FG% or even TO's (sloppy plays), but acting like his problems are on the defensive side of the floor is just silly/biased.
I mean defensively/rebounding/effort there's very little to criticize Len on - In terms of his play last year & going forward . Talk all you want about his FG% or even TO's (sloppy plays), but acting like his problems are on the defensive side of the floor is just silly/biased.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Please. If Timofy Mozgov can make 15m/yr, then Alex Len can certainly do it, even as a bench player.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 35,989
- Reaction score
- 14,792
And if you dig even deeper you realize how irrelevant his stats were last year. All they proved is he can't play power forward next to Chandler and he can't play pick and roll from any position when he's playing with a bad hand.
I don't think he's earned anywhere near the salary I've been talking about. My point is that if (IF) we still believe in him, 15 per is a steal. And if we no longer believe in him, why waste the time on him.
I don't want him as a backup big man, I just don't see that as a role for him in the long run. Either he learns how to play his true position on a nightly basis or we need someone else. I was really expecting him to come out strong this season as he is supposedly healthy and ready to go. It's an incredible over-reaction to give up on a young big guy after 2 preseason games but frankly, I'm tired of making excuses for him. Every single excuse has been legitimate but after a while, who cares, do your job or find a new one.
I was especially frustrated watching him against Utah and not just because he made an up and coming big man look like the greatest to ever play the game. Watching him continue to switch to the guard so the big man (or whoever) could have his way in the lane really irritated me the other night. He's not switching because the guard wants him too, he's just chasing the ball and abandoning his responsibilities. It's hard to defend the lane when you're 15 feet from the basket double teaming a little guy that already kicked the ball to an open player about an hour earlier.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2004
- Posts
- 35,989
- Reaction score
- 14,792
I highly doubt that Watson has been teaching him to preemptively switch like that. Len continually found himself far from the hoop double teaming a guard that had long since passed the ball. By now he should know that it's his job to stay home unless the guard tells him to switch and you could tell by the frustrated looks on the faces of our guards that he wasn't being told to switch. I'd be very surprised if our coaches weren't stressing to him the importance of staying home and protecting the rim. That's all on him.
Phrazbit
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2011
- Posts
- 19,703
- Reaction score
- 10,520
First off, that contract is crazy stupid, just because a couple of the most poorly ran franchises in the league decided to throw 8 figure deals at backup quality players during one crazy offseason does not mean it is either a trend or something to emulate. And even knowing that, Mozgov has shown significantly more ability than Len.
I do not think I am using any hyperbole at all when saying that Len, if he plays like he did last year again, will likely be looking at a 5-10 million dollar per year contract for only 2 years with the 2nd year being non-guaranteed. His 42% shooting last year was beyond the pale. For a big to shoot that terribly you'd assume they're mostly shooting it outside the paint, that isn't the case with Len, he has virtually no range and shot worse around the rim than Brandon Knight (who is constantly killed here for his inability to finish), if you're going to be that much of a detriment offensively then you better be a beast on defense, which Len isn't. He has had moments but almost anyone who has been given as much PT as he has would. By in large he has been a merely adequate defender who is prone to lapses in concentration.
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Posts
- 11,660
- Reaction score
- 844
No he can't. Lakers signed Mozgov as a starter. The approx average salary for a starting player in the NBA is $15M under the new salary cap.
So again like I said before, if some team thinks Len can start for them then sure. But nobody is signing Len to a $15M to be a backup. He's gonna likely get something similar to what Ezeli got. At most, I'm predicting what Henson got.
Then you'd have ask yourself if the Suns would be willing to match an Ezeli type contract for Len.
JCSunsfan
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2002
- Posts
- 21,755
- Reaction score
- 6,140
Alex Len is playing at a 2 decent games to 1 disappearance game rate. If he can improve that to 3 or 4 to 1, he will make big bucks. I don't think Alex Len will ever get to the point where he doesn't ever disappear from games. He will just do it less often. But this often happens with big men who are not in control of how many times they touch the ball. He will have to rebound and play D to control his own fate.
