Do you think the 2003 Cards are a better team

[Skkorpion]

The biggest improvement over last year should occur in two areas:

1. The 2002 draft class, now familiar with the system and in NFL shape;
2. The hiterto soft underbelly of the team - the backups and special teams players. If Graves is to be credited with doing anything well so far, it's been in securing quality depth.

I have to laugh when people like Kerouac criticize this team and coaching staff for not keeping quality receivers. Hello? Have you been hiding under a rock?

What was Martay Jenkins before Jerry Sullivan turned him into a WR? What success did Kevin Kasper have before Sullivan got hold of him.

For that matter, what was David Boston before Sullivan made him a force?

Jerry Sullivan thinks Bryan Gilmore and Jason McAddley, with help from a least a few of the other 13 WRS we have on the roster, can form a good receiving corps. Doesn't Sullivan deserve respect, credit, and some slack, based on his track record?

I honestly cannot think of a single position on this team that does not have the potential to be improved over last year, other than TE and CB.

We won 5 games last year with worthless production from Thomas Jones, David Boston, Martay Jenkins, Joel Makovicka, Mike Gruttadoria, Duane Starks, Adrian Wilson, Kwamie Lassiter, Jake Plummer, Levar Fisher, and Wendell Bryant, and losing Pete Kendall, Leonard Davis, and Barron Tanner for several games as well.

Several of the worst coaches were fired as well. To NOT expect an improvement in the won/loss record is rather naive and/or defeatist. Or is it wishful thinking?

I have no idea as to how much improvement to expect. As a Cards fan I have lowered expectations. Here is the way I see it:

- 6 wins or less, regardless of injuries, will be unacceptable and get McGinnis fired.
- 7 wins is the minimum that will keep McGinnis employed for another year and is the number of wins I expect if we have major injuries.
- 8 wins will please most fans and provide a good building block for 2004. (my gut says this is the maximum attainable)
- 9 wins gets McGinnis an extension and has most of us thrilled, except Kerouac.
- 10 wins means playoffs, McGinnis extension and garners him some votes for Coach of the Year.

 

[jw7]

Originally posted by Skkorpion


Skkorps Post

Thats exactly the way I feel, too. Great Post

 

[40yearfan]

kerouac9-----Yeah---what Skkorp said.

 

[kerouac9]

Skorp! Please, have some charity! I, for one, would be ecstatic with a 9-win season, and would totally eat crow over everything I've said about Graves, Mac, Bidwill, and anyone else who I've rapped since season's end.

I have a ton of faith in Sullivan's ability to recognize talent and develop it. What tempers that faith is the fact that Sullivan is no longer the recievers' coach, but the Offensive Coordinator, and will not have the time to intensively devote to training sudden starters like Johnson, Gilmore, McAddley, and Boldin. If he is devoting that time, as he had as a WR coach, I will question what he's doing as an O-coordinator, especially if the rest of the O falters. I'm sure that Sullivan can develop the players that he has into NFL-caliber competition, but there's a reason that Gilmore and McAddley were on the practice squad last year, and I wonder how much Gilmore can have learned just by learning in the classroom, especially when he hasn't been able to run for the past, what, eight months? It's an NFL maxim that rookie WRs don't contribute much in their first year in the NFL. DB didn't do much in his rookie season, and I would expect far less from the "second-tier" rookies (not that they're bad, just where they've been graded. They'll be quality, maybe Pro Bowl, WRs eventually) than I expect from a #8 overall WR like DB.

Graves and Mac have done a great job at addressing the problem of depth on the team. They deserve to be commended for it. The issue of massive talent drop-off following standard NFL-season attrition needed to be addressed, and was done so quite well.

I agree that the additions of Jackson at Safety and Hodgins at fullback are quality upgrades. The complication with this is that these are positions that I look at as "complimentary," in which a good player will make a good team better, but can't really take over a game or make a bad team good. Combine that with the publicly disappointing courtships of Rosie Colvin and Vonnie Holliday, who were seen as remedies to the Cards' biggest problem (pass rush, or lack thereof), and players that could make the entire defense better, and it casts a shadow over the starting veteran acquisitions.

But to say that we won 5 games essentially despite TJ, DB, Jake, and Mar Tay iseems disengenuous. The Cards started out the season 4-2, with massive contributions from your "worthless" players (Boston had 2 100+ yard games despite being the only real recieving threat, TJ's 173-yard performance at Seattle), and the defense playing far above it's pay scale. They then lost 9 of the last 10, seven by margins of more than one score, with basically the same personnel that we have this season.

There will be improvement in this team. I've read that it takes 3 years for a rookie D-lineman to truly come into his own in the NFL. That's the place that KVB is at, and hopefully he can show me what a lot of people on this board insist is there. Barrett showed a lot of promise to me, and I hope he can step up his game even more. Adrian Wilson should benefit from an interested free safety in D. Jax.

I do not see this year's schedule as being easy for this franchise, though. I think that two extra wins can be viewed as successful progress, but also having that as the minimum "goal" is the mark of a "rebuilding" season. In this age of so-called "parity," where all teams are expected to be above-average, each team's goal going into Week 1 should be to win the Super Bowl. I've seen no indications from players, coaches, or management to suggest that this is the goal in 2003.

And that's what is, to me, the most troubling of all.

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by kerouac9

It's an NFL maxim that rookie WRs don't contribute much in their first year in the NFL.

<p>Could that be because so few of them get to be starters in their rookie years? A team usually has veterans filling the #1 and #2 spots, so the rookies become the #3 or #4 receiver and don't really get a chance to show their worth. If the Cards don't retain any veteran WRs this season, we are going to be looking at what are basically rookies (Gilmore, McAddley) being thrust into starting positions, but this time with a QB that can get the ball to them. Same holds true for Boldin, Johnson. With the lack of veteran WRs, someone is going to get the chance of a lifetime to step up and make it big their rookie year. Whether this will work or not is dependent on the coaching and player ability. One thing is for certain. It sure will be fun watching the competition.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Could that be because so few of them get to be starters in their rookie years?

Not necessarily. Antonio Bryant held a starting role for the Cowboys, and didn't do much. Jabar Gaffney was a starter for the Texans. Since 1967, only seven rookie WRs have gone over 1000 yards recieving in a season. Jeremy Shockey had more yards through the air as a rook than Bryant. The last one to go over 1000 yards was Randy Moss, but he was playing out of the slot. Ashley Lelie, Javon Walker, and Donte Stallworth all started and did nothing last year. Same with Reche Caldwell.

Chris Chambers played in the slot his rookie season and posted monster stats, but that was with two vets around him that demanded good coverage. Peerless Price had 393 yds his rookie year out of the slot.

If anything, good WRs should do BETTER with vet starters on each side of them, because they get covered by a nickel corner and little extra attention from safties.

Yes, someone is going to get the opportunity to step up, but, obviously, no one has yet. If no one does, what does that mean for the passing game in 2003?

NOTE: Much of this is in an ESPN Insider article from STATs Inc. The link is here

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Not necessarily. Antonio Bryant held a starting role for the Cowboys, and didn't do much. Jabar Gaffney was a starter for the Texans. Since 1967, only seven rookie WRs have gone over 1000 yards recieving in a season. Jeremy Shockey had more yards through the air as a rook than Bryant. The last one to go over 1000 yards was Randy Moss, but he was playing out of the slot. Ashley Lelie, Javon Walker, and Donte Stallworth all started and did nothing last year. Same with Reche Caldwell.

Chris Chambers played in the slot his rookie season and posted monster stats, but that was with two vets around him that demanded good coverage. Peerless Price had 393 yds his rookie year out of the slot.

If anything, good WRs should do BETTER with vet starters on each side of them, because they get covered by a nickel corner and little extra attention from safties.

Yes, someone is going to get the opportunity to step up, but, obviously, no one has yet. If no one does, what does that mean for the passing game in 2003?

NOTE: Much of this is in an ESPN Insider article from STATs Inc. The link is here

I don't know what you think is "didn't do much".

Antonio Bryant was Dallas' number 2 receiver with 44 catches, 733 yards, a 16.7 avg. and 6 tds. Stallworth had 42 catches, a 14.1 avg., and 8 tds. Both were significant threats in the offenses that they played in.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AzWins23
Give me Lassiter any day

Jackson's Last 4 years in the NFL

1999- Int's 0
2000- Int's 0
2001- Int's 4
2002- Int's 3


Lassiter' Last 4 years in the NFL

1999- Int's 2
2000- Int's 1
2001- Int's 9
2002- Int's 2


I'am just saying that Lassiter is better that's all....I'am also not downplaying Jackson.....By Stat's an experience you have to go with Lassiter

In 99 and 00, Jackson didn't start, so those two years don't even matter.

And stats don't tell you things like how a player has honored his assignments. Many times last year, Lassiter was out of position and gave up big plays.

Jackson is known for being a guy that is in the right place at the right time. He doesn't make as many int.s but he is a better overall coverage guy. He is much faster and younger than Kwamie and doesn't make the mental mistakes that Kwamie has made.

 

[arthurracoon]

We are better this year than last year because we still have not lost a game yet.