Did a potential deal for Hopkins unravel?

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
46,069
Reaction score
11,611
Dude. Seattle won nine games and made the playoffs with Geno Smith as their starter. Pittsburgh won 9 games with Kenny Pickett and Mitchell Trubisky combining for 12 TDs and 14 INTs (!!!!!). Taylor Heinicke won five games for Washington. Zach Wilson had a winning record as the New York Jets starter.

You don't have to get All-Pro Level play at Quarterback to win in the NFL. You're choosing not to see that losing like the Cards have decided to do is a choice.
Dude. Seattle's roster was deeper than ours, so was Pitt and the Jets. Many outlets called our roster the worst in the league, but yeah 11 games. Hell, even taking the bottom of your range 7 seems laughable with the way our roster is/was. Even before letting Allen/Murphy/D-Hop go.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,431
Reaction score
27,643
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Dude. Seattle's roster was deeper than ours, so was Pitt and the Jets. Many outlets called our roster the worst in the league, but yeah 11 games. Hell, even taking the bottom of your range 7 seems laughable with the way our roster is/was. Even before letting Allen/Murphy/D-Hop go.
A lot can happen in the NFL if you try. You’re not even making an argument.
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
46,069
Reaction score
11,611
A lot can happen in the NFL if you try. You’re not even making an argument.
It is easy to make an argument that are/were going to be terrible. Ask anyone and most will tell you the same thing.

Making the argument that we could have one 7-11 games is the one that needs a suspension of belief.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,214
Reaction score
53,629
Location
SoCal
He has still done more good for this team than not though.
Has he? Jury is entirely out on that. Current draft is a huge question mark imo. Future acquired draft picks are only conceptual assets at present. He’s signed middling to nominal free agents while letting the bet candidates for second contracts walk, given up our top offensive weapon for nothing, and literally lost draft value by violating league rules.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,214
Reaction score
53,629
Location
SoCal
Dude. Seattle won nine games and made the playoffs with Geno Smith as their starter. Pittsburgh won 9 games with Kenny Pickett and Mitchell Trubisky combining for 12 TDs and 14 INTs (!!!!!). Taylor Heinicke won five games for Washington. Zach Wilson had a winning record as the New York Jets starter.

You don't have to get All-Pro Level play at Quarterback to win in the NFL. You're choosing not to see that losing like the Cards have decided to do is a choice.
Mind you k9 isn’t saying “likely” he’s saying it would’ve been possible. While it would’ve been uphill with kylers injury I think he’s solidly proven his point with the examples he provided.
 

Carolinacacti

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Posts
2,232
Reaction score
1,211
Location
Charlotte NC
Further - what is the defense of a process that ends up with a top 10 WR being RELEASED WITHOUT ANY COMPENSATION? Are we just going to act like that was part of the plan?
Good plan Monti set a precedent for non team players. Hold on to them until FA money is gone then show them the door.
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
46,069
Reaction score
11,611
Has he? Jury is entirely out on that. Current draft is a huge question mark imo. Future acquired draft picks are only conceptual assets at present. He’s signed middling to nominal free agents while letting the bet candidates for second contracts walk, given up our top offensive weapon for nothing, and literally lost draft value by violating league rules.
I think he has and most people agree with me at a 5:1 clip at this point, according to this thread.

 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
15,537
Reaction score
12,416
Good plan Monti set a precedent for non team players. Hold on to them until FA money is gone then show them the door.
We get to give Nuk a lesson, and also further destroy our team by allowing top assets to walk without compensation. Winning!
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
15,537
Reaction score
12,416
Could this team been re-fit to win between seven and eleven games in 2023? Absolutely.

Seattle made the playoffs last season. The Giants made the playoffs last season. The Commies were in playoff contention until December. The Pittsburgh Steelers had a winning record last season.

Oftentimes losing 12 games or more is a choice. It's baffling that we're making that choice with a franchise QB on the roster.

Again, make a positive case for what is being "fixed" this year. Changing the subject is not answering the question of why "this team needs/needed a major overhaul that one offseason couldn't fix."

Michael Bidwill said when he fired Kliff that "this team isn't as broken as everyone seems to think." Apparently his third-choice GM disagreed with him.
You don't have to be an NFL expert to know that the NFC is seriously down, and the QB's are at a historical nadir in the conference. 14 of the 32 teams make it, so basically half of the league is in the playoffs.

Tearing everything down does give a sweet runway though!
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
15,537
Reaction score
12,416
Where did I ever say that Gaines would be a center for the next decade????!!!!!!!??????!!!???
At least you've offered some sort of plan at the position - you're ahead of the FO! Maybe at some point we'll pay some attention to the D-line. Maybe next year!
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,957
Reaction score
13,401
one aspect of the Hop thing: there was pretty much no way the team could bring Hop back.

He spent the offseason making it clear he didnt want to be here.

I was hoping that after trying to trade him and there were not takers, he would have turned the page. It seemed like he did that with his "who said i wanted to leave here" post after the draft. However, shortly after that he openly listed the kinds of organizations he wanted to play for.

Had they brought him back -- even to hold him until some contender had a WR injury- its a near certainty he would have spent most of training camp not practicing. Also likely he wouldn't have practiced much during the week when the season started.

All while a new HC is trying to instill a culture of toughness, accountability, etc. It puts the HC in the position of deciding if you play him or not if he doesn't practice.
 

dreamcastrocks

Chopped Liver Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Posts
46,069
Reaction score
11,611
At least you've offered some sort of plan at the position - you're ahead of the FO! Maybe at some point we'll pay some attention to the D-line. Maybe next year!
I'm really confused. If Gaines is the plan, and the Cards have publicly stated that he can take center snaps, isn't that a plan? Isn't Froholdt a plan?

I think this is one of the positions you could say they have a plan for.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,431
Reaction score
27,643
Location
Gilbert, AZ
one aspect of the Hop thing: there was pretty much no way the team could bring Hop back.

He spent the offseason making it clear he didnt want to be here.

I was hoping that after trying to trade him and there were not takers, he would have turned the page. It seemed like he did that with his "who said i wanted to leave here" post after the draft. However, shortly after that he openly listed the kinds of organizations he wanted to play for.

Had they brought him back -- even to hold him until some contender had a WR injury- its a near certainty he would have spent most of training camp not practicing. Also likely he wouldn't have practiced much during the week when the season started.

All while a new HC is trying to instill a culture of toughness, accountability, etc. It puts the HC in the position of deciding if you play him or not if he doesn't practice.
There's a crazy kabuki theatre going on that there was ever a possibility that DHop would come back. There never was -- that's why Hop said goodbye to us at the end of last season.

Monti and Gannon fed a weird narrative that there was a chance he'd return. That wasn't going to happen, and they behaved as if that were the case (even when their words said otherwise). \

Hop didn't want to play here because we were going to be bad and he wants to get numbers/have an opportunity for another five-figure payday.

We didn't want Hop here because he might help us win a game or two (which we don't want) and he had an ungainly cap number the next two seasons.
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
14,957
Reaction score
13,401
There's a crazy kabuki theatre going on that there was ever a possibility that DHop would come back. There never was -- that's why Hop said goodbye to us at the end of last season.

Monti and Gannon fed a weird narrative that there was a chance he'd return. That wasn't going to happen, and they behaved as if that were the case (even when their words said otherwise). \

Hop didn't want to play here because we were going to be bad and he wants to get numbers/have an opportunity for another five-figure payday.

We didn't want Hop here because he might help us win a game or two (which we don't want) and he had an ungainly cap number the next two seasons.
i think this is correct.

There is the "fan of the team" part of you where you hope that things can be worked out --- but it seems foolish in retrospect.

I also think that both Hop and Monti significantly over-estimated the demand for Hop's services.
 
Top