Cards to workout DE/LB Ricky Sapp

[WarnerHOF]

Who cares about that? Does the guy have the size, speed and athleticism to make the switch? If he doesn't then so what? That doesn't detract from my take that some of these "tweener" college DEs could make good WILBs if they do have those attributes.

But why the hell would you draft a DE/OLB in the 2nd and try to convert him to a ILB when proven ILBs like AJ Edds and Donald Butler with similar athletic ability will most likely still be on the board? You don't take chances like these with your 2nd rounder in a deep defensive draft.

 

[cardsfanmd]

But why the hell would you draft a DE/OLB in the 2nd and try to convert him to a ILB when proven ILBs like AJ Edds and Donald Butler with similar athletic ability will most likely still be on the board? You don't take chances like these with your 2nd rounder in a deep defensive draft.

Thank You.

 

[Duckjake]

But why the hell would you draft a DE/OLB in the 2nd and try to convert him to a ILB when proven ILBs like AJ Edds and Donald Butler with similar athletic ability will most likely still be on the board? You don't take chances like these with your 2nd rounder in a deep defensive draft.

Who said you would? AJ Edds is also 6'4" 245 and runs a 4.6 forty. Of course you would take him because he's played more as a true linebacker. But why take a guy who is 6'1" 230 in the 5th round who is as much of a prospect as the other guy who is 6'4" 245?

 

[Duckjake]

Uhhhhh, you do. Maybe a difference of 40 tackles in a year doesn't detract much, but the fact that you made up numbers in your head, then paraded them around this and other threads as if they were real detracts from your credibility. If what you are saying is so right then why make up lies to substantiate it?? C'mon man, you're better than that.

You are totally missing the point here. I am not on this guys bandwagon. I am on the bandwagon of guys who are 6'4" and 245 and run 4.6 forties and make lots of tackles and have the athleticism to play in coverage as opposed to guys with the same athletic ability who are only 6'1" and 230. Because I think it is just as much of an adjustment from LB in college to 3-4 ILB in the NFL as it is from DE to OLB.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You are totally missing the point here. I am not on this guys bandwagon. I am on the bandwagon of guys who are 6'4" and 245 and run 4.6 forties and make lots of tackles and have the athleticism to play in coverage as opposed to guys with the same athletic ability who are only 6'1" and 230. Because I think it is just as much of an adjustment from LB in college to 3-4 ILB in the NFL as it is from DE to OLB.

I was just reading somewhere else that Belichick's ideal size he wants in his LB's is 6'4 240+ and a 4.6 forty.

 

[WarnerHOF]

Who said you would? AJ Edds is also 6'4" 245 and runs a 4.6 forty. Of course you would take him because he's played more as a true linebacker. But why take a guy who is 6'1" 230 in the 5th round who is as much of a prospect as the other guy who is 6'4" 245?

I'm fairly sure Sapp is projected to go in the 2nd so I don't understand what this has to do with anything.

 

[Duckjake]

I was just reading somewhere else that Belichick's ideal size he wants in his LB's is 6'4 240+ and a 4.6 forty.

think about this. If we have a 6'1" guy playing WILB the pass Dansby tipped that was intercepted against GB never happens. Also the shorter guy never gets up high enough to block Rodgers throwing lane and Adams hit is too late as the pass is already thrown. You can't coach tall.

Just ask the FG kickers who line up knowing Calais is on the other side.

 

[Duckjake]

I'm fairly sure Sapp is projected to go in the 2nd so I don't understand what this has to do with anything.

I don't know what any of your posts have to do with what I've been talking about either. Sapp is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

EDIT: Let me clarify something. Are you saying that it is impossible for any player to make the transition from DE in college to WILB in the NFL?

 

[WarnerHOF]

I don't know what any of your posts have to do with what I've been talking about either. Sapp is irrelevant to the point I'm making.

EDIT: Let me clarify something. Are you saying that it is impossible for any player to make the transition from DE in college to WILB in the NFL?

I'm not saying it's impossible but I'm sure as hell not going to pick a guy in the 2nd because he seemingly has the "athleticism" to fill a big positional void on the team that he has zero experience in.

In the 5th round than probably if he is a hard worker and a good learner but Sapp isn't lasting till then. Sapp doesn't play that hard nosed football style I want in my ILBs either, he looks like career finesse speed rusher to me IMO.

btw, the ILBs who I think are top 3 are all this tall.

Ray Lewis 6'0
Patrick Willis 6'1
David Harris 6'2

 

[Duckjake]

I'm not saying it's impossible but I'm sure as hell not going to pick a guy in the 2nd because he seemingly has the "athleticism" to fill a big positional void on the team that he has zero experience in.

In the 5th round than probably if he is a hard worker and a good learner but Sapp isn't lasting till then. Sapp doesn't play that hard nosed football style I want in my ILBs either, he looks like career finesse speed rusher to me IMO.

btw, the ILBs who I think are top 3 are all this tall.

Ray Lewis 6'0
Patrick Willis 6'1
David Harris 6'2

What does any of this have to do with whether or not a guy can make the transition from college DE to 3-4 WILB? Can the guy tackle? Can the guy cover. Nothing else matters. Who ever said that short LBs couldn't play? All I said was that I think some of the college DEs could make good WILBs in the pros and you went off on some rant about Sapp and short linebackers.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I like that outside lb from Florida State...

 

[joeshmo]

Found out about another visit the Cards have lined up.

Some DE/DT prospect from William & Mary’s named Sean Lissemore. Measures at 6-3 just under 300 pounds. Pretty fast running 4.85. Seems like a 7th rounder / UDFA type. Dont know anything more about the kid other then that.

We can bring in 20 guys for a visit, so along with this kid, Sapp, and I forget which QB prospect we are bringing in that makes 3 out of 20.

Under Green we didn't bring in prospects for a visit as a rule, but we are doing it far more often every year that Wiz and the scouting staff Graves has put together has been here.

Was also told that Donnie Henderson was seen at the Kyle Wilson Pro Day.

Also this should be no surprise, a lot of the scouts and coaches were at the ASU pro day today where they seemed to keep an eye out the most on LB Travis Goethel.

 

[binkar]

Found out about another visit the Cards have lined up.

Some DE/DT prospect from William & Mary’s named Sean Lissemore. Measures at 6-3 just under 300 pounds. Pretty fast running 4.85. Seems like a 7th rounder / UDFA type. Dont know anything more about the kid other then that.

We can bring in 20 guys for a visit, so along with this kid, Sapp, and I forget which QB prospect we are bringing in that makes 3 out of 20.

Under Green we didn't bring in prospects for a visit as a rule, but we are doing it far more often every year that Wiz and the scouting staff Graves has put together has been here.

Was also told that Donnie Henderson was seen at the Kyle Wilson Pro Day.

Also this should be no surprise, a lot of the scouts and coaches were at the ASU pro day today where they seemed to keep an eye out the most on LB Travis Goethel.

Good stuff. 4.85 at 300 lbs. is pretty impressive.

 

[WildBB]

Was also told that Donnie Henderson was seen at the Kyle Wilson Pro Day.

That's very good news.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Sapp would be used as a Rush LB if the Cardinals selected him. At 6'4" and 250lbs the dude can move. He ran a 4.61, 40-yard dash at the combine. He is coming off a torn ACL that occured in Nov 2008 so injury concerns are a real issue. However even coming off that injury he still put up good numbers in 2009 tackles (60), tackles for loss (15) and sacks (five).

Sapp is a pass rusher and that's something that the Cards could use. I wouldn't be shocked if he was our 1st round pick.

 

[MadCardDisease]

He may not go in the first round bit I doubt if he would last until our pick in the 2nd round.

I agree. Pash Rushers get gobbled up pretty fast. I think he is gone by the middle of the 2nd round.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Was also told that Donnie Henderson was seen at the Kyle Wilson Pro Day.

Very interesting.

 

[Monty]

I'm not saying it's impossible but I'm sure as hell not going to pick a guy in the 2nd because he seemingly has the "athleticism" to fill a big positional void on the team that he has zero experience in.

In the 5th round than probably if he is a hard worker and a good learner but Sapp isn't lasting till then. Sapp doesn't play that hard nosed football style I want in my ILBs either, he looks like career finesse speed rusher to me IMO.

btw, the ILBs who I think are top 3 are all this tall.

Ray Lewis 6'0
Patrick Willis 6'1
David Harris 6'2

I know that there isnt a protypical player for any position but if i had to say what id consider the prototypical size and hight then id think itd have to be around 6'2 245lbs in which case the Jets' David Harris is just about perfect.

So if there are any ILB's in this draft who weigh exactly 245 and 6'2 then pull the trigger if they get to our pick

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Speaking of Kyle Wilson

Kyle Wilson solidifies stock with pro day

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We haven't heard a lot from Boise St. cornerback Kyle Wilson since his cover skills and his RV took the Senior Bowl by storm back in January.

Wilson did not run at the Scouting Combine, but he's been called the second best cornerback on many draft rankings. Some teams may prefer him over Florida's Joe Haden.

On Friday, Wilson affixed the corner piece to his draft puzzle. He ran a 4.4 7and 4.43 in the forty, according to NFL's Gil Brandt. His other numbers were also excellent, including a 38-inch vertical jump and 10-foot, 2-inch broad jump.

We'd be very surprised at this point if Wilson made it out of the first round.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Kyle Wilson solidifies stock with pro day

You must be registered for see images

We haven't heard a lot from Boise St. cornerback Kyle Wilson since his cover skills and his RV took the Senior Bowl by storm back in January.

Wilson did not run at the Scouting Combine, but he's been called the second best cornerback on many draft rankings. Some teams may prefer him over Florida's Joe Haden.

On Friday, Wilson affixed the corner piece to his draft puzzle. He ran a 4.4 7and 4.43 in the forty, according to NFL's Gil Brandt. His other numbers were also excellent, including a 38-inch vertical jump and 10-foot, 2-inch broad jump.

We'd be very surprised at this point if Wilson made it out of the first round.

I clicked on where it say's "his RV" and it looked like the top of the think say's K-Dub. If so, it's a lock---he's our pick.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

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I believe it says KDUB1.com.

http://www.kdub1.com/

 

[Monty]

I clicked on where it say's "his RV" and it looked like the top of the think say's K-Dub. If so, it's a lock---he's our pick.

You must be registered for see images

The man's got style and that makes him a-okay in my book.

 

[kerouac9]

You are totally missing the point here. I am not on this guys bandwagon. I am on the bandwagon of guys who are 6'4" and 245 and run 4.6 forties and make lots of tackles and have the athleticism to play in coverage as opposed to guys with the same athletic ability who are only 6'1" and 230. Because I think it is just as much of an adjustment from LB in college to 3-4 ILB in the NFL as it is from DE to OLB.

Really? Because it sure seems as if a lot of rookie ILBs make that transition pretty well (Patrick Willis, DeMeco Ryans, Jerrod Mayo), while a lot of good OLBs take some time (LaMarr Woodley, DeMarcusWare exploded in his second season, Merriman as well). The transition from DE to OLB is huge because you're adding more responsibilities in coverage (even if they're just 5- to 7- yard drops and very different rush angles.

WILBs are playing backward and laterally as frequently as they're playing forward. Maybe more often. You're asking a lot of a DE who's played HIS ENTIRE CAREER moving forward only to suddenly take on all these other responsibilities. Maybe with a late-round pick you can try that experiment (someone's going to do with with Koa Misi in this draft in the third round maybe), but I'd hate to see the Cards do it with a 2nd rounder.

I see what you're saying about the measurables, but that was one of the things that made Karlos a special player, and probably attracted Parcells. Dansby was a great size-speed player, and those guys don't come along very often. His real gift was in coverage, and we just don't know if we can get that in Sapp.

Do you know of any successful conversions from college DE to pro WILB? Was Tedy Bruschi a college DE?

 

[Redrage]

Really? Because it sure seems as if a lot of rookie ILBs make that transition pretty well (Patrick Willis, DeMeco Ryans, Jerrod Mayo), while a lot of good OLBs take some time (LaMarr Woodley, DeMarcusWare exploded in his second season, Merriman as well). The transition from DE to OLB is huge because you're adding more responsibilities in coverage (even if they're just 5- to 7- yard drops and very different rush angles.

WILBs are playing backward and laterally as frequently as they're playing forward. Maybe more often. You're asking a lot of a DE who's played HIS ENTIRE CAREER moving forward only to suddenly take on all these other responsibilities. Maybe with a late-round pick you can try that experiment (someone's going to do with with Koa Misi in this draft in the third round maybe), but I'd hate to see the Cards do it with a 2nd rounder.

I see what you're saying about the measurables, but that was one of the things that made Karlos a special player, and probably attracted Parcells. Dansby was a great size-speed player, and those guys don't come along very often. His real gift was in coverage, and we just don't know if we can get that in Sapp.

Do you know of any successful conversions from college DE to pro WILB? Was Tedy Bruschi a college DE?

I'm with you here. May sound like a broken record, but watching Norwood in the Senior Bowl was painful. Here's a guy who has run downhill his entire football carreer and they had him dropping into coverage. If you want to convert an outside backer then take 4-3 OLB guy as opposed to a 4-3 end/ 3-4 olb.

 

[binkar]

Found out about another visit the Cards have lined up.

Some DE/DT prospect from William & Mary’s named Sean Lissemore. Measures at 6-3 just under 300 pounds. Pretty fast running 4.85. Seems like a 7th rounder / UDFA type. Dont know anything more about the kid other then that.

We can bring in 20 guys for a visit, so along with this kid, Sapp, and I forget which QB prospect we are bringing in that makes 3 out of 20.

Under Green we didn't bring in prospects for a visit as a rule, but we are doing it far more often every year that Wiz and the scouting staff Graves has put together has been here.

Was also told that Donnie Henderson was seen at the Kyle Wilson Pro Day.

Also this should be no surprise, a lot of the scouts and coaches were at the ASU pro day today where they seemed to keep an eye out the most on LB Travis Goethel.

A little more info on this kid per Rob Rang's (nfldraftscout.com) blog:

William and Mary pass rusher Adrian Tracy was the big name on campus -- so much so that I highlighted him back in November in our PDF Draft Slant -- but it was his former teammate, defensive tackle Sean Lissemore who impressed scouts at their recent Pro Day. The 6-3, 297 pounder was twice timed in the low 4.8s in the 40-yard dash, 4.27 in the short shuttle and a 7.57 in the 3-cone drill. He also showed good explosiveness with a 30" vertical jump, 9'3" broad jump and lifting the bar 26 times. Lissemore is hardly a workout warrior. He earned first team all-conference honors with 66 tackles, 14 tackles for loss, 6.5 sacks and two interceptions as a senior. He also stood out at the Texas vs. Nation practices. Lissemore has already gained the interest of several clubs, having set up private visits with the Arizona, Atlanta, Jacksonville, both New York clubs, and Seattle.

http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/view/13682485?tag=pageRow;pageContainer