Cardinals announce they have released Hopkins - Signed with Titans

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,915
Reaction score
53,088
Location
SoCal
I don’t disagree that it’s an indictment against the club. Whatever their reason was, (and we don’t know) it was enough to go elsewhere. I liked them both but in my opinion, they were both average at best, and injury prone. Certainly not so great as to be losing our **** over them leaving.
I love all the hyperbole flying all over the board. “Losing our ****,” “franchise killing gaffe.” Literally no one is doing or saying either of those things.

What people are noting are the “gaffes” are piling up in the new front office “cons” column compared to their “pros” column.

Pros:
Nice trades in the first round

Cons:
Questionable selections post-second round
No center on the team
Tampering costing valuable draft positioning
Lost two young average-to-good free agents
Let hop go for zero compensation

That’s it at present. Just looking at fact by fact. The proof is going to be in the play, and obviously not in this seasons play. So we won’t really know the value of their actions until 2024-2025 season. Except we will be building from virtually ground zero at the end of the upcoming season, so I don’t that season to be very good either. So likely not until 2025-2026 season until we can really determine if this front office is any good. That’s a long time to wait in the nfl. So in the meantime we can only examine what we do know, not what might happen with cap space and flexibility and future draft picks.
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,041
Reaction score
3,227
My experience tells me that most if not all those who wanted Monti to at least get a 5th round pick for Hop would still be complaining if that did happen. The new complaint would be Monti sucks and has no clue about Hops worth, he only got a 5th round pick for him.

Not saying losing Hop for nothing doesn't suck but stuff and circumstances happen.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
60,915
Reaction score
53,088
Location
SoCal
My experience tells me that most if not all those who wanted Monti to at least get a 5th round pick for Hop would still be complaining if that did happen. The new complaint would be Monti sucks and has no clue about Hops worth, he only got a 5th round pick for him.

Not saying losing Hop for nothing doesn't suck but stuff and circumstances happen.
You’re right. But it’s a continuum. People would’ve felt he sucks for getting a fifth. They think he REALLY sucks for getting squadoosh. Some would’ve been mad if he was traded for a third because they wanted him on the team, period. Rare is the occurrence that unites the entire board.
 

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
60,425
Reaction score
23,130
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
Pros:
Nice trades in the first round

Cons:
Questionable selections post-second round
No center on the team
Tampering costing valuable draft positioning
Lost two young average-to-good free agents
Let hop go for zero compensation

That’s it at present. Just looking at fact by fact.
Nice summary and these are the facts
 

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,358
Reaction score
32,738
Location
Las Vegas
Nice summary and these are the facts
Actually his first sentence in The cons section is 100% just an opinion not a fact in anyway shape or form.

And sentence #2 I’m gathering we do have a C on the team. Just because you may not like who it’s gonna be doesn’t make it a fact ;)
 

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
60,425
Reaction score
23,130
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
And sentence #2 I’m gathering we do have a C on the team. Just because you may not like who it’s gonna be doesn’t make it a fact ;)
Fair enough

I should have clarified quality C

Someone who actually gives us a chance of success instead of a collection of scrap players and a late round pick moving positions

I will happily eat crow if I'm proven wrong

But so many arrows pointing in the other direction
 
Last edited:

Mark22

VBhoopcoach
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Posts
105
Reaction score
206
Location
tipp city, ohio
If you didn't care for the players, I won't indict you for having a different opinion. It happens a lot, dissing players after they leave a team, but opinions will vary. For me, it's just one half of a disastrous FA period, the failure to hold onto our own talent. Add in the tampering snafu, and add in choking on the Nuk situation, and our new FO is off to a shaky start.
I didn’t say I didn’t care for them. In fact I said I liked them both. Just think they were just average. Thought it when we had them. Opinion didn’t change because they left. Although I agree players tend to get trashed after they leave. I’ll agree to disagree on the Hopkins handling. The rest I’m with ya on.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,388
Reaction score
21,315
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
I love all the hyperbole flying all over the board. “Losing our ****,” “franchise killing gaffe.” Literally no one is doing or saying either of those things.

What people are noting are the “gaffes” are piling up in the new front office “cons” column compared to their “pros” column.

Pros:
Nice trades in the first round

Cons:
Questionable selections post-second round
No center on the team
Tampering costing valuable draft positioning
Lost two young average-to-good free agents
Let hop go for zero compensation

That’s it at present. Just looking at fact by fact. The proof is going to be in the play, and obviously not in this seasons play. So we won’t really know the value of their actions until 2024-2025 season. Except we will be building from virtually ground zero at the end of the upcoming season, so I don’t that season to be very good either. So likely not until 2025-2026 season until we can really determine if this front office is any good. That’s a long time to wait in the nfl. So in the meantime we can only examine what we do know, not what might happen with cap space and flexibility and future draft picks.
Preach.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,388
Reaction score
21,315
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
My experience tells me that most if not all those who wanted Monti to at least get a 5th round pick for Hop would still be complaining if that did happen. The new complaint would be Monti sucks and has no clue about Hops worth, he only got a 5th round pick for him.

Not saying losing Hop for nothing doesn't suck but stuff and circumstances happen.
So no one should criticize because they wouldn't like it if they get what they wanted anyway? Bad logic. If you asked at the beginning of the league year if trading Hop for a 5th was a good idea, no one would likely have been happy. I'd have been unhappy at the recompense but happy to see him off the books. If, however, you asked if trading Hope for a 5th was a good idea versus releasing him for nothing, I think the consensus would've been to at least get something for him.

Again, it seems to be the excuse/franchise defending game here. "People would've complained anyway if Monti actually made the right move" is what I'm reading.

Sorry, Monti flubbed it here. Again. I'm not inspired with confidence in him to date. I know some have raw hope because he's different, shiny and new, and some are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because he's never done this before, but I as a fan want Monti to be making all the right calls right out of the box, because if not, this franchise is screwed for a long time. From my perspective, he's set our rebuild back at least a year.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,388
Reaction score
21,315
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Question for the masses. Would you pay day half of DHs salary 9.5 mil to get a 3rd round pick for him?
As long as it's on this year's cap, then yes, absolutely. It's only money and cap space and we aren't using any of both for anything significant this season. If it falls entirely on next year's cap? Mm, a 3rd rounder maybe wouldn't be enough recompense. If it were split over the two years, then absolutely again.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,195
Reaction score
7,358
Location
North of the 49th.
Good organizations figure it out. The cardinals don’t. At the end of the day we will see hops value when a good organization signs him and he produces. Ours couldn’t figure out a way to gain value from that. Keep defending an organization that has proven time and time again to make bad decisions.

I'm not defending historically bad decisions; I'm saying that what you suggested earlier would add to the bad decision-making that you so decry.
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,041
Reaction score
3,227
You’re right. But it’s a continuum. People would’ve felt he sucks for getting a fifth. They think he REALLY sucks for getting squadoosh. Some would’ve been mad if he was traded for a third because they wanted him on the team, period. Rare is the occurrence that unites the entire board.
All true and some posters default opinion is to complain. Lord knows the Cards have given us all countless reasons to complain but at times it gets over the top, IMHO.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,195
Reaction score
7,358
Location
North of the 49th.
So no one should criticize because they wouldn't like it if they get what they wanted anyway? Bad logic. If you asked at the beginning of the league year if trading Hop for a 5th was a good idea, no one would likely have been happy. I'd have been unhappy at the recompense but happy to see him off the books. If, however, you asked if trading Hope for a 5th was a good idea versus releasing him for nothing, I think the consensus would've been to at least get something for him.

Again, it seems to be the excuse/franchise defending game here. "People would've complained anyway if Monti actually made the right move" is what I'm reading.

Sorry, Monti flubbed it here. Again. I'm not inspired with confidence in him to date. I know some have raw hope because he's different, shiny and new, and some are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because he's never done this before, but I as a fan want Monti to be making all the right calls right out of the box, because if not, this franchise is screwed for a long time. From my perspective, he's set our rebuild back at least a year.

What part of "Dhop would not take a salary cut' don't you understand?

The Cards shopped him, and he was given permission to seek a trade, and none would take on his $19.5m stipend in 2023.

The Cards had three options:

1. Keep him in 2023, and punt the final decision to 2024.
2. Cut him and take a $22m 'dead money hit' to get him off the books and add $8m to this season's Cap
3. Pay a portion of his $19.5m salary in 2023 in return for perhaps a mid to late-round pick*

* This approach would likely mean the Cards paying the equivalent of $30m+ Cap hit in 2023.

You're MONTI for a day... what would you have done?
 

RON_IN_OC

https://www.ronevansrealty.com
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
25,902
Reaction score
32,824
Location
BirdGangThing
Actually his first sentence in The cons section is 100% just an opinion not a fact in anyway shape or form.

And sentence #2 I’m gathering we do have a C on the team. Just because you may not like who it’s gonna be doesn’t make it a fact ;)
Agreed.

By all accounts those round 1 trades put the Cardinals in position to "own the 2024 draft". IMO, that's beyond nice....it's outstanding.

Also by most accounts, the Cards drafted really well top to bottom this year. Sure there are question marks, but that's pretty much expected the later you get in the draft. The truth is none of us will know for a year or two how they will all pan out.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,195
Reaction score
7,358
Location
North of the 49th.
As long as it's on this year's cap, then yes, absolutely. It's only money and cap space and we aren't using any of both for anything significant this season. If it falls entirely on next year's cap? Mm, a 3rd rounder maybe wouldn't be enough recompense. If it were split over the two years, then absolutely again.

1. You're spending Cap dollars that can be rolled over in whole or in part to 2024.
2. The portion of the salary taken at the point of trade accrues to 2023 for Cap purposes.
3 . We have no idea if the Cards will, in fact, extend a player at this point. (Hollywood, perhaps)
 

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
60,425
Reaction score
23,130
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
Sorry, Monti flubbed it here. Again. I'm not inspired with confidence in him to date. I know some have raw hope because he's different, shiny and new, and some are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because he's never done this before, but I as a fan want Monti to be making all the right calls right out of the box, because if not, this franchise is screwed for a long time. From my perspective, he's set our rebuild back at least a year.
Agree
 

WisconsinCard

Herfin BIg Time
Joined
Apr 1, 2003
Posts
15,492
Reaction score
6,647
Location
In A Cigar Bar Near You
As long as it's on this year's cap, then yes, absolutely. It's only money and cap space and we aren't using any of both for anything significant this season. If it falls entirely on next year's cap? Mm, a 3rd rounder maybe wouldn't be enough recompense. If it were split over the two years, then absolutely again.
Ok but just realize your spending money this year that you can use next year. That 9 mil can sign a couple of nice players next year, or you have a 3rd round pick.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,495
Reaction score
32,303
Location
Orange County, CA
I love all the hyperbole flying all over the board. “Losing our ****,” “franchise killing gaffe.” Literally no one is doing or saying either of those things.

What people are noting are the “gaffes” are piling up in the new front office “cons” column compared to their “pros” column.

Pros:
Nice trades in the first round

Cons:
Questionable selections post-second round
No center on the team
Tampering costing valuable draft positioning
Lost two young average-to-good free agents
Let hop go for zero compensation

That’s it at present. Just looking at fact by fact. The proof is going to be in the play, and obviously not in this seasons play. So we won’t really know the value of their actions until 2024-2025 season. Except we will be building from virtually ground zero at the end of the upcoming season, so I don’t that season to be very good either. So likely not until 2025-2026 season until we can really determine if this front office is any good. That’s a long time to wait in the nfl. So in the meantime we can only examine what we do know, not what might happen with cap space and flexibility and future draft picks.
Rich. All your opinions. Not facts.

I 100% believe now that the tank is on.
 

QuebecCard

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Posts
5,195
Reaction score
7,358
Location
North of the 49th.
Good organizations figure it out. The cardinals don’t. At the end of the day we will see hops value when a good organization signs him and he produces. Ours couldn’t figure out a way to gain value from that. Keep defending an organization that has proven time and time again to make bad decisions.

Feel free to keep falling back on this ad hominem B-S.
 
Top