Calling on "Jake the Fake" posters

[Krangodnzr]

Yearly precipitation for Denver: 15.21

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Yearly precipitation for Denver: 15.21

If that's based on the last teo or so years, it's misleading; we've been in one helluva drought. 2 summers ago we had less rain then Phoenix.

Even if it is an overall average, you can't call Denver a desert.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Pariah
If that's based on the last teo or so years, it's misleading; we've been in one helluva drought. 2 summers ago we had less rain then Phoenix.

Even if it is an overall average, you can't call Denver a desert.

While technically not a desert (I thought deserts were defined by 12 or less), it is still a "high desert".

Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, California, Oregan, etc. are all deserts basically. It has to do with being so far away from large bodies of water, with many mountain ranges keeping the rain from getting inland.

 

[Lex]

Russ-

If Jake had played against N.E. and Baltimore, would they still have ranked as high defensively? That question is just as valid as you claiming Jakes numbers are only good, because he "didn't have to play them."

Jake looks good because the other players on the team make him look good? MarTay, Frank, D-bo, and TJ are really tearing it up in the NFL, huh?

Mike Jurecki is THEE number one reason Jake is gone. He's still playing the "rats ass" misquote numerous times every day, and ANYTHING he says in regards to Jake PLummer, is designed to cover his ass. Period. He still won't admit he was DEAD WRONG about Plummer, he's to the point now, of predicting failure in the damn future, since he's run out of other excuses for how he could have been so wrong.

Like a lot of people around here.

Jake has another month of football left, let's see how that goes.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Lex
Russ-

If Jake had played against N.E. and Baltimore, would they still have ranked as high defensively? That question is just as valid as you claiming Jakes numbers are only good, because he "didn't have to play them."

Lex, the best defenses Jake faced this year his performances were just so so, most of his really good games were against weaker defenses. So yes I do believe it's reasonable to assume his numbers would be lower if he'd played games against the best pass defense in the NFL(New England) the team tied with New England for INT's(Minnesota) and the team with the 5th rated(Total defense) defense in the NFL(3rd in yards per play). I also believe it's fair to assume his stats against Pittsburgh would be good since they have a bad passing defense.

I asked the question much earlier on this thread that nobody seems to want to answer. who has a better defense, San Diego or New England? Detroit or Baltimore? Why do you believe that?

Do you not remember months ago when I said Blake should sit out the baltimore game to rest his injured foot(after it was disclosed he was taking painkiller shots for it) and you pronounced that there was no way in the world McCown should make his first NFL start against the best defense in the NFL?

Again, I'm not saying Jake the QB would be worse if he'd played those 4 games, I'm saying Jake's stats would almost assuredly be worse. If he played San Diego every week he'd challenge Marino's TD record, if he played New England every week he'd look a lot worse, like virtually every other QB that's played against them has.

 

[Bobcat]

Originally posted by jkf296
Allan, I don't think I was ever a detractor from Jake.

You may be getting somethin wrong from me. I am more down on the current regime and the coaches that he had here more than Plummer.

Allan, why didn't you come out to Payton's for the 49ers game? We had a great time. Vince was even in-line.

Vince never asked me to go!!! When we go to Cardinal Games he comes to my house in glendale to pick me up. See after my 4 brain surgeries I get lost while driving alone. Even in my own neigborhood. It sounds funny but it is so damn true it hurts. Vince
comes here for ever home game so I can go to them. He is a great son. I am not mad at him for not asking me, but he probably thought that I wanted to stay home and watch the game here. For the last 9 years, my life and my families lives have changed due to my surgeries. My wife is becoming a Nurse Practitioner. She graduates from ASU in June. Vince is on his way to being the son that ever father would be proud of nad my daughter Teresa. Has been accepted to Yhe Walter Chronkite School of Journalism. All in all life goes on, one day at a time.

Our we all going to meet at the north end zone this coming Sunady at half time.

Allan

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by MaoTosiFanClub
Please. Brooks had one good year in '95. Freeman coudn't even beat out the amazing Todd Pinkston and James Thrash lest year in Philly.

you can't even begin to compare freeman of a few years ago with pinkston and thrash. did you just start watching football two years ago? freeman was one of the most highly regarded wrs at one time.

and brooks, when healthy, was a stud.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by Cardinal Bob
And therein, Bobcat, lies the rub. None of the Anti-Plummer League will admit that may have been wrong about Jake. It's not just jkf296, it's the whole lot of 'em!

jesus christ you holier-than-though folks have short memories. i earlier said i was a basher and then admitted that he's better than i thought he was. WHAT THE HELL WAS ALL THAT?!?

but no, go ahead and generalize, that's what you guys do best . . . sigh . . .

 

[maddogkf]

Originally posted by Bobcat
Vince never asked me to go!!! When we go to Cardinal Games he comes to my house in glendale to pick me up. See after my 4 brain surgeries I get lost while driving alone. Even in my own neigborhood. It sounds funny but it is so damn true it hurts. Vince
comes here for ever home game so I can go to them. He is a great son. I am not mad at him for not asking me, but he probably thought that I wanted to stay home and watch the game here. For the last 9 years, my life and my families lives have changed due to my surgeries. My wife is becoming a Nurse Practitioner. She graduates from ASU in June. Vince is on his way to being the son that ever father would be proud of nad my daughter Teresa. Has been accepted to Yhe Walter Chronkite School of Journalism. All in all life goes on, one day at a time.

Our we all going to meet at the north end zone this coming Sunady at half time.

Allan

Carry on Bobcat! Carry on!! Sounds like Vince is a good chip off the old block - he's a nice guy from what I know of him (although he can't play a lick of man-to-man def on the hot corner)

 

[vince56]

Originally posted by maddogkf
Carry on Bobcat! Carry on!! Sounds like Vince is a good chip off the old block - he's a nice guy from what I know of him (although he can't play a lick of man-to-man def on the hot corner)

awwww how sweet

thanks. I have something to say on the whole Jake Plummer thing. last year, I wanted to make a decision on Plummer for myself. So I bought tickets in the endzone, and watching Jake, I went through his progressions with him during games, following where his head was pointed and I was trying to pick out what he sees. My conclusions were that he was not too adept at finding an open receiver, and most times if he did find one, he'd chuck it short in the dirt.

I believe this year, with the talent around him, his coaches have shown him how to systematically go through his progressions. I do believe he has no more than 2 active downfield targets and one dump-off at a time. By 'active' I mean 1 WR or TE downfield is a decoy that he's not even looking at unless they're incredibly wide open. That effectively limits him to only 3 choices at any one time. I also believe they've worked on his delivery, because less of his balls are underthrown this year. This could all be wrong, it's just what I think I've picked up from watching a few denver games this year.

They're playing a simple passing offense for Jake, and to Shanahan's credit, it's working quite well. I think Jake will do well for time to come in Denver, because the scheme and coaching are working and he's playing a system tailored to his abilities AND his limitations.

Beyond that, I must admit my most glaring memories of Plummer are him chasing down Champ Bailey and Deion Sanders after picks. Plummer's a good tackler

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by vince56
awwww how sweet

I also believe they've worked on his delivery, because less of his balls are underthrown this year. This could all be wrong, it's just what I think I've picked up from watching a few denver games this year.

I think you're right that. One of the things I commented on for years was Jake's mechanics drove me nuts, throwing off the back foot, the total absence of a follow through(he just stops his arm, in flyfishing that's the hurry up and stop and it's good, in football it's bad). He's not doing that stuff, he's clearly improved mechanically in Denver, he's more accurate. That throw last night for the first down to Smith where Theismann talked about what a tough throw it was and how accurate it was, he could NOT make that throw as a Card.

One of the funnier moments of last night's game for me was the dropped pick by Doss where Jake tried to go to Smith(?) in the left flat area. Jake had that look on his face we've all seen in the past where he was wondering where the hell the safety came from and Sharpe came up to him. As they walked off the field you could see Sharpe say "be careful." Jake looked at him and said "were you open?" If you really watched the play, Sharpe wasn't even in the pattern, he actually was a total decoy blocking on the play, I think it was Griffin that slipped out into the flat while they were waiting for Sharpe to. I watched that play and all I could think was Jake did not know that Sharpe wasn't even in the pattern, which confirms what you said about limited guys in the pattern, limited reads, and he's excelling at it.

If Denver tries to "complexify" the offense next year I have this distinct fear they're going to see 20 INT Jake again.

But you can't argue with the numbers 9--2 with Jake as the starter is impressive.

One more good start from Jake and I have to go to the Denver board and post the "i was wrong about Jake" post. Sure lots of people here will be glad to help me write that one!

 

[vince56]

Solid post Russ. I completely agree.

 

[Bobcat]

Originally posted by vince56
Solid post Russ. I completely agree.

I completely disagree!!!

Allan

 

[Card Trader]

Look, Plummer is having a pretty good year....a really good year actually, but Denver fans act like he is doing something that Griese didn't do. In 2000 Griese had a better year than Jake is having now......and we all know how that one ended....a team shuts down their running game and down the tubes they go.

So Denver fans, it's happened before, it will happen again.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Card Trader
Look, Plummer is having a pretty good year....a really good year actually, but Denver fans act like he is doing something that Griese didn't do. In 2000 Griese had a better year than Jake is having now......and we all know how that one ended....a team shuts down their running game and down the tubes they go.

So Denver fans, it's happened before, it will happen again.

Really that's not what happened with Griese, if you look Portis averaged 5.5 YPC LAST year too, but Griese didn't play nearly as well as Jake. Griese suffered a shoulder injury a couple years back, had surgery, and lost what little arm strength he had. You can see it in his stats he simply cannot get the ball downfield anymore. That just allowed teams to defend Denver differently and it took things away from them.

Even though Jake is not exactly a rocket armed QB, he DOES have a better arm than Griese, and he's been able to get some balls downfield to open that back up. I didn't think he could, but he has. Add in the extra run dimension and it's obvious Jake fits their system better. When he was healthy, Griese was arguably as good because while he couldn't run, he WAS more accurate so he was still able to move the offense, but it reached a point where NFL teams figured out how to defend Griese and he started throwing a lot of picks as a result.

The question is will the NFL adjust to Jake as a Bronco? I suspect they will, it'll be really interesting to see what sort of changes they make going forward. Shanahan has admitted several times this year that they have not turned over the full offense to Jake yet, several comments such as "takes a QB a while to grasp the whole system , he'll be something special with the whole offense etc." He clearly was smart enough to realize it was going to take Jake longer to learn than you'd expect from a 6 year vet, but that he still had enough talent on offense to win with a scaled down version that Jake could run.

I have really developed an appreciation for Shanahan this year he's very good at what he does.

 

[Lex]

Russ-

Your assumptions are out of left field.

Plummer had what, a month to learn Denvers playbook? Now you see quotes where Shanahan talks about how good Plummer will look once he's been GIVEN the entire playbook, and somehow, in your twisted mind, that sounds like

"Shanahan was smart enough to realize it was going to take longer to learn than you'd expect from a six year vet, but that he still had enough talent on offense to win with a scaled down version that Jake could run."

Really.

If it were that simple, why not just keep Griese, save a ton of salary cap, and have HIM run the scaled down version that has Denver in the playoffs for the first time in three years?

Stop digging, get out of the hole you're in, and admit you were wrong now. It'll be even tougher for you, when Plummer hoists the Lombardi Trophy.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by Lex
when Plummer hoists the Lombardi Trophy.

You were pretty much right on until that point. And where you go astray really has nothing to do with Plummer.

I think any road teams in the AFC are going to have an awful tough time making it to, let alone winning, the Super Bowl. I think that New England is playing much to well and will fend off all comers this year.

Now, if the road to the Super Bowl were to go through Invesco Field at Mile High Satdium in Denver, well then.....

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Lex
Russ-

Your assumptions are out of left field.

Plummer had what, a month to learn Denvers playbook? Now you see quotes where Shanahan talks about how good Plummer will look once he's been GIVEN the entire playbook, and somehow, in your twisted mind, that sounds like

"Shanahan was smart enough to realize it was going to take longer to learn than you'd expect from a six year vet, but that he still had enough talent on offense to win with a scaled down version that Jake could run."

Really.

If it were that simple, why not just keep Griese, save a ton of salary cap, and have HIM run the scaled down version that has Denver in the playoffs for the first time in three years?

Stop digging, get out of the hole you're in, and admit you were wrong now. It'll be even tougher for you, when Plummer hoists the Lombardi Trophy.

Now, now, now - Lex!

You know that Russ' every word is supported by the irrefutable logic found in STATS... there is not one iota of bias. And, if you don't believe me... ask him

 

[Lex]

Wiz-

I look at what the donkeys did in the last two weeks VS KC and Indy, argueably two of the top three teams in the AFC, and I just can't see who can beat Denver, now that they're on a roll at the perfect time. Going on the road should actually help Denver toughen up for the SB.

I think New England loses in the first round...

 

[WizardOfAz]

As one of the AFC's Wild Card teams, I think it would be a huge task to win three games in a row on the road.

 

[Lex]

Northern Card-

I like Russ, I think statistics are open to interpretation, and he interpreted Jake's statistics wrong.

That's all.

Let's face it, Russ was only one, of the majority on this board that was wrong about Plummer.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Lex
Northern Card-

I like Russ, I think statistics are open to interpretation, and he interpreted Jake's statistics wrong.

That's all.

Let's face it, Russ was only one, of the majority on this board that was wrong about Plummer.

I like him too. Just having fun...

 

[OrangeCrush]

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
As one of the AFC's Wild Card teams, I think it would be a huge task to win three games in a row on the road.

Yes it is...but has been done. We did have Elway, too. So who knows? But anyone going through Foxboro will have their hands full.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by Lex
I just can't see who can beat Denver...

Indy can.

 

[8ndkorner]

Originally posted by Renz
All of you guys who want to swap spit with Plummer are jumping the gun a bit don't you think? Plummer was brought to Denver to "win" playoff games, which Denver hasn't done since Elway retired.

If the Donkeys lose in the first round again then their season will have been a flop.

And there you have it.

The Colts hold Portis to 68 hard fought yards to effectively shut down the running game.

38-3 and they stay with the run?

Plummer is forced to go to the air and looks like a Card again.

McCown would look good on that offense.