Anyone remember Bill Polian (Colts GM) criticizing Edge?

[joeshmo]

The reality is that 13 total carries in no way allows for a fair evaluation of a running back's ability. Come on, that's just not fair to Shipp.

Why isnt it fair. Shows just how little the coaching staff thinks of the guy considering JJ gets double the amount of carries and far more receptions.

If 13 carries isnt fair then how about his record over the last 3 years. It doesnt get any better.

It is completely fair to judge a player on their body of work and him only having 13 carries for this whole season is a body of work which goes exactly in line with his previous 2 seasons which only verifies his abilites this season no matter how small of a sample.

Regardless that wasnt the exact purpose of that post. 2.2 Mill for 13 carries, 0 TD's, 5 Special teams tackles is 10 times more inflated then Edge salary and what he does.

 

[joeshmo]

Dude - do you honestly believe Emmitt was running behind an o-line that was half as capable as the line Edge is running behind? Not even close... And yet old man Emmitt nearly got to 1,000 yards (and would have had he not missed 2 games).
Emmitt was a natural leader. He didn't come in and demand black shoes and flat screen TV's in the locker room... I'm not an Edge hater, but if I had the choice, I'd take Emmitt all day long over Edge...

He missed 1 Game, not 2.

Nearly got to 1000. How about the rest of the story such as receptions and recieving yards?

When did James "demand" black shoes or flat screen TV's. He asked for and they let him have it. How exactly that is being spun into some sort of negative is beyond me.

 

[ajcardfan]

Dude - do you honestly believe Emmitt was running behind an o-line that was half as capable as the line Edge is running behind? Not even close... And yet old man Emmitt nearly got to 1,000 yards (and would have had he not missed 2 games).
Emmitt was a natural leader. He didn't come in and demand black shoes and flat screen TV's in the locker room... I'm not an Edge hater, but if I had the choice, I'd take Emmitt all day long over Edge...

Since the Pittsburgh game, the run blocking has been subpar. Part of that, I'm sure, is that defenses have adjusted to what we are doing in our run game. It looks like it has for most of the time the Cards have been in Arizona.


as for "leadership", that's kind of funny. I well remember Emmitt just being crucified for going to Dallas and standing on the Cowboys sideline during a Monday night game. I was one of the few who actually excused him for that. If James did the same thing with the Colts, you and azsouthendzone might have a cerebral infarct you'd be so pissed off.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Since the Pittsburgh game, the run blocking has been subpar. Part of that, I'm sure, is that defenses have adjusted to what we are doing in our run game. It looks like it has for most of the time the Cards have been in Arizona.


as for "leadership", that's kind of funny. I well remember Emmitt just being crucified for going to Dallas and standing on the Cowboys sideline during a Monday night game. I was one of the few who actually excused him for that. If James did the same thing with the Colts, you and azsouthendzone might have a cerebral infarct you'd be so pissed off.

1.) Nice try... but todays' O-line is broderline Pro-Bowlish compared to the line and coaching Emmitt was forced to endure...

2.) Emmitt was always viewed as an emotional, natural leader. That really isn't up for debate. I honestly couldn't care less if he hung with his former mates, and the same goes for Edge - just so long as they gave their all and produced come game time.
In that sense, I don't fault either one of them as I believe both Edge and Emmitt are true competitors. For some reason, you seem to want to twist this into an "82 hates Edge" debate... Not true at all. I simply stated that I would take Emmitt's last year in the NFL over anything I have seen from Edge thus far as a Cardinal. Doesn't mean I hate Edge at all. IMO, he is simply not on the same level as Emmitt - even the Emmitt in his last season...

 

[82CardsGrad]

He missed 1 Game, not 2.

Nearly got to 1000. How about the rest of the story such as receptions and recieving yards?

When did James "demand" black shoes or flat screen TV's. He asked for and they let him have it. How exactly that is being spun into some sort of negative is beyond me.

As I said - I am not "anti-James". And I did not intend to make his demands for black shoes and flat-screen tv's as a negative. My point is that a more effective leader such as Emmitt would have first shown his ability to contribute on the field, then perhaps made such demands...
That's just my opinion though... Seems strange to me that a dude would walk into a new team, new environment and before taking even one snap, make these sort of demands... Only then to produce at sub-par levels on the field...

 

[moklerman]

Didn't James suggest the black shoes based on what Indy wears? I'm sure he has his own preference but I'm betting it was an easy sell. Also, that was around the time that there was encouragement from the brass for team leaders to be forthcoming with suggestions on how to improve the environment wasn't it? James wasn't a team leader at that point but he was a respected vet from a winning team.

I'm not decided on James' apparent lack of production as of yet. I think he is what he's always been. He just hasn't had the same level of production from Arizona's line compared to Indy's. It was a gamble on Green's/Graves' part to bring in James to fix the running game but RB wasn't the problem.

 

[ajcardfan]

1.) Nice try... but todays' O-line is broderline Pro-Bowlish compared to the line and coaching Emmitt was forced to endure...

2.) Emmitt was always viewed as an emotional, natural leader. That really isn't up for debate. I honestly couldn't care less if he hung with his former mates, and the same goes for Edge - just so long as they gave their all and produced come game time.
In that sense, I don't fault either one of them as I believe both Edge and Emmitt are true competitors. For some reason, you seem to want to twist this into an "82 hates Edge" debate... Not true at all. I simply stated that I would take Emmitt's last year in the NFL over anything I have seen from Edge thus far as a Cardinal. Doesn't mean I hate Edge at all. IMO, he is simply not on the same level as Emmitt - even the Emmitt in his last season...

Okay, that's fine.

I'm very disappointed by the oline over the last few weeks. It's probably because they got my hopes up in the first four games that they had truly turned the corner. I would've agreed with Pro Bowl possibilities then. But, right now, none of them will get even a sniff of the Pro Bowl this year.

 

[SuperSpck]

Also, that was around the time that there was encouragement from the brass for team leaders to be forthcoming with suggestions on how to improve the environment wasn't it? James wasn't a team leader at that point but he was a respected vet from a winning team.

How soon we seem to forget yesterday, with the promise of tomorrow shinning in our eyes.

 

[john h]

Interesting thread (for a bunch of totally disparate reasons).

First of all, it's hard to criticize Polian - Before he built the Colts, he did a pretty good job of turning the Bills into perennial Super Bowl contenders.

Second, there are some who consider Joseph Addai (who was the fourth RB picked in the draft) the top RB chosen that year.

Thirdly, Edgerrin James a "good third down back?" - give me a break! What he's done for us is to pick up the grimy, tough, unspectacular yards we need to make our offense whole. You don't see many runs of 10 yards or more - just a steady rat-tat-tat of +3, +4's and +5's. Think about the number of times where he was stopped in his tracks behind the LOS but found away to bite, scratch and crawl his way to positive yardage (example" the final 2 yards of his 5 yard TD run. How many times a game does he do something like that?)

Just as he did last year, Edge is on track to pick up his 1,000 yards (and probably wind up closer to around 1,200). Wiz pointed out that, in addition to the 9-man fronts Cincy was playing, there were more than a few times last week where our run blockers didn't sustain their blocks long enough, keeping us from ripping off longer gains on the ground.

Finally, why, oh why after coming off a key win, would anyone want to play "woulda-coulda" about a personnel decision made two years ago? (Sounds to me like it's one more veiled attempt to take a shot at our GM).

James picks up the hard yards as you say Jeff and his 1000+ comes on grind it out in your face runs. That is taking it's toll and will continue to do so. A back who makes his yardage like Edge is lucky to have lasted this long without serious injury. It will ultimately wear him down. Among other things we do need to add a RB in the draft next year. Our other two RB's I think are truly not every down RB's. JJ looks more like a short receiver than a runner and is being used like that due to someone recognizing you just cannot run him up the gut over and over. I would go so far to say that if a good RB is there when we draft I would take him with our first pick. Not because Edge is losing it but because in time he will.

 

[john h]

Give me a break! I believe Shipp could do the exact same thing if he had the carries Edge did. In fact, I think he'd have more yards because he has more explosion than Edge. IMO. The way I see it, Edge has been continually hitting the wrong hole, and when he does hit open lane, he does it with almost pedestrain speed. Granted, he often gains one or two yards after contact. That may be the grimy unspectacular yards of which you are referring. Big deal. Dude is making way too much bank for me to sing his praises for that sort of production. That's the way I see it.

And so what that he is on pace to rush for 1000 yards in "16 games". I don't think for what he's getting paid, 1000 grimy unspectacular yards is anything to write home about. Hell, Adrian Murrell rushed for 1000 yards for us as well, and helped us get to the playoffs to boot. And he did break a couple of long ones as I recall.

I think Shipp had a chance to show what he could do before Edge got here. I do not think he is in the same class as James and never will be. He is a marginal #2 or a #3 RB on some team.

 

[Rivercard]

I would take Emmitt's last season in the NFL over anything I've seen from Edge since he's been a Card. No thinking twice. No questions asked. Not even close...

Wow, you must not see what I see. James seems to run twice as hard as Emmitt did. James is better at grinding out a few extra yards when possible.

 

[Pariah]

1. I don't know how this turned into a "Shipp is not the answer" thread. Can't one question Edge's ability to get everything out of a play (lack of speed/burst) without suggesting his backup become the starter?

2. Smith ran really, really well for us. He certainly exceeded my expectations. It'd be a difficult decision for me to decide on a starter if we had Smith (circa 2004) and Edge (today). They're pretty close in ability, I think.

3. Edge is making the most of what he can considering he doesn't have breakaway potential anymore. Plenty of times he's gained a couple extra yards when the defense had him dead-to-rights. But, the flipside is that if he had younger, speedier legs, there a lots of times when he could have turned a 10 yard gain into a home run, too.

4. If a RB is BPA in the draft next year in any round, I think the Cards would be wise to take him.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Wow, you must not see what I see. James seems to run twice as hard as Emmitt did. James is better at grinding out a few extra yards when possible.

Your opinion.. that's cool RC... Again, I don't hate Edge. I think he's been a terrific back over his career... However, for me, he's been a let-down here in Arizona. I see many plays where many other backs would have been more successful at busting a big one, or turning Edge's 4 yard carry into a 9 yard carry... And I firmly believe that Emmitt, even in his advanced stage in his last season, was better than then Edge we have today.
Is that really such a stretch though? My god - Emmitt is the alltime leading rusher... He didn't get there by accident did he??

 

[nashman]

82 you must be a cowboys fan or something because the Emmit that ran here in AZ was worse than Edge. You have your right to like who you like but the #'s speak for themselves Edge played behind the worst Oline in the NFL last year and still broke 1000 yards. Emmit was not that good here, Edge has been nothing but a professional and will eventually reap better numbers as the Oline learns to block.

 

[Avondale_Larry]

Neither JJ, nor Ship, nor Emmitt in his last season would've scored that TD last weekend. Edge went the last three yards no more than 12 inches off the ground.

He's a gamer. I'm glad he's ours.

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