Anyone Still Think These WR Are Good

[PJ1]

Wow... seriously?

We lost the game precisely because of the drops. If Jones catches that perfectly thrown ball with two minutes to go, we run out the clock and we're instead talking about how we're the worst 3-0 team in history.

It's undeniable, and your lack of acknowledgement of this fact demonstrates your lack of impartiality on the issue.

Fact. And if KM had thrown a bad pass to him the haters would lose it.

 

[Harry]

Harrison has played poorly. The interesting part to me is considering how this happened. He was a consensus top WR in his draft. I went back and looked at my notes on him. Finally I asked AI to summarize the college reports on him, “Marvin Harrison Jr. is considered an elite, complete wide receiver prospect with exceptional traits for the NFL, including superior route running, reliable hands, and impressive size and physicality that make him a red-zone threat and effective at winning contested catches.”

Is that what you’re seeing? Some of it falls on Harrison’s mental toughness. I looked back at the way OSU supports its players and then how the Cards do. None of this is to take away from Harrison’s personal responsibility to fix it. I’m more concerned with the Cardinals’ developmental process. I know people are sick of Murray complaints. I’ll warn you more are coming in a future post. For now let’s start with the difficulty Murray has in integrating new WRs. Harrison went from the focus of a championship contending offense at a top school to a regularly ignored target. Surely this started Harrison questioning himself. I can still recall that amazing catch he made on that lame fudge throw Murray lofted into an open area of the field. Harrison had the skillset and focus.

Petzing gets even more blame for Harrison’s performance decline. First Petzing should have forced the issue with play calling. Yesterday Petzing had the perfect opportunity to show faith in Harrison who had just made a terrible, costly drop. I watched several of yesterday’s games. DK Metcalf dropped the first 2 passes thrown to him. In contrast to the Cards who sent Harrison to timeout, the Steelers threw 4 more key passes to Metcalf, who averaged 21 yds per catch. Regularly NFL watchers will recall how common it is for top teams to go right back to a player after a drop or even a fumble. Simply put it shows belief in them as a player. While the Cards did eventually go back to Metcalf for a big completion, it seemed more out of desperation than faith.

Finally I watched, several times, the Harrison drop on the long throw. His damaged confidence was apparent. In college he hand caught balls virtually every time. Sunday he first extended his hands to grab the ball. Then he pulled his hands back and let the ball come into his body. Predictably the ball slid down before he could grab it and the ball fell to the ground. That wasn’t about athletic ability. It was a reflection of a player who’d lost his self confidence.

Will Harrison ever become a dominant WR? I don’t know. I do know the Cards aren’t blameless in this failure. Am I confident the Cards can draft and develop a number one WR with the current configuration? I am not.

 

[football karma]

right now? bottom 10 unit

with no running game threat -- they just arent good enough right now to have the passing game carry the team. Murray has a role here, but you cant ignore the WRs

looks like Mike Wilson is the only one who can be counted on to make difficult, above average NFL receiver catches consistently.

 

[iLLmatiC]

Well, we're not coaches. We're fans reacting to what we see. Ask JG if you can go talk to the team tomorrow.

Really? We’re not coaches? Thanks for the update chief.

 

[Chopper0080]

I just read an article by Tyler Drake about MHJ being emotionally upset after the game, saying he knows he has to be better. Well duh, you're a 1st round draft pick, catch the damn ball, high point a pass every once in a while. So frustrating.

He is pressing for sure. He wants to be great but is in a minimized role for the first time in his career and with an unconventional QB who he is trying to figure out. Also, Kyler doesn't seem to be a great communicator in that several different players have "not been on the same page" as Kyler already this year. None of this excuses the drops but they are part of the story.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Mayfield failed in Cleveland & struggled with Petzing as his QB coach. Hmmmmm

A good point though I think Petzing was the TE coach when Baker was in Cleveland.

 

[cardcrazy]

right now? bottom 10 unit

with no running game threat -- they just arent good enough right now to have the passing game carry the team. Murray has a role here, but you cant ignore the WRs

looks like Mike Wilson is the only one who can be counted on to make difficult, above average NFL receiver catches consistently.

Wilson had an opportunity to make a tough nfl catch that was a bit high, got both hands on it but couldn’t pull it down.
Fitz and Hopkins both make that catch.

 

[Chopper0080]

Either way, Kyler put the ball where it had to be. It doesn't matter what he averaged YPA because he did nothing to cost us the game, Demacardo could've walked in & that would be the score we needed.

I am not going to go full in defending a part of Brit's point, but he has one very valid point.

The current vertical passing game effectiveness is this.

Coming into this game vertical passes to MHJ two deep routes resulting in a 44 yard completion and a 38 yard interference penalty. MHJ got 3 or 4 in the game vs SF. 1 was a 32 yard completion, 1 was a drop, another was a drop but also a PI for 33 yards, and another was an incompletion.

These are all pretty much plus outcomes and should be used even more frequently. Kyler has to push the ball down the field more.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Imagine going into the offseason and thinking, there's nothing we can do to improve this group - it's perfect as is!

We built our entire identity around a smash mouth running game and a running back who invites contact and has a ton of miles on his legs. Our rushing success rate is 30%, which is 3rd WORST in the entire NFL.

Not only are we incredibly boring, we're also incredibly mid with a system that benefits nobody at this point.

Cooked franchise, as usual.

 

[Proximo]

I have a hard time judging the WR's when they get a combined 10 targets in a game.

 

[602 Native]

Wilson had an opportunity to make a tough nfl catch that was a bit high, got both hands on it but couldn’t pull it down.
Fitz and Hopkins both make that catch.

Sadly Wilson wasn't drafted to make that catch even though he should.

So disappointed on where the Cards are in terms of WRs. We might be close to the worst unit in the league.

 

[football karma]

Wilson had an opportunity to make a tough nfl catch that was a bit high, got both hands on it but couldn’t pull it down.
Fitz and Hopkins both make that catch.

but those are two HOF WRs, but yes -- I thought that wasnt in the drop category, but would have been a high degree of difficulty catch

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I am not going to go full in defending a part of Brit's point, but he has one very valid point.

The current vertical passing game effectiveness is this.

Coming into this game vertical passes to MHJ two deep routes resulting in a 44 yard completion and a 38 yard interference penalty. MHJ got 3 or 4 in the game vs SF. 1 was a 32 yard completion, 1 was a drop, another was a drop but also a PI for 33 yards, and another was an incompletion.

These are all pretty much plus outcomes and should be used even more frequently. Kyler has to push the ball down the field more.

But is it really all Kyler's fault in that? Petzing doesn't call that many downfield shots as we all know.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Sadly Wilson wasn't drafted to make that catch even though he should.

totally - they drafted wilson to drop that catch - makes perfect sense

 

[602 Native]

Imagine going into the offseason and thinking, there's nothing we can do to improve this group - it's perfect as is!

We built our entire identity around a smash mouth running game and a running back who invites contact and has a ton of miles on his legs. Our rushing success rate is 30%, which is 3rd WORST in the entire NFL.

Not only are we incredibly boring, we're also incredibly mid with a system that benefits nobody at this point.

Cooked franchise, as usual.

Don't worry we got Tip Reiman on the team.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Don't worry we got Tip Reiman on the team.

Tip is fine as a 5th or 6th round pick who is part of your weapon stack. To have him as a 3rd round pick is a waste of resources.

 

[Shane]

That can be true but yesterday wasn't Kyler's fault, he put the ball where it needed to be on all 3 critical dropped passes.

Why does everyone keep saying 3 drops? It was 4

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Why does everyone keep saying 3 drops? It was 4

5 but who's counting

 

[Chopper0080]

But is it really all Kyler's fault in that? Petzing doesn't call that many downfield shots as we all know.

Almost every play call has a vertical element to it so I don't think it is a play issue. I do think Gannon and Petzing are so hyper-focused on playing it safe that Kyler has bought into it which has impacted his game. There is a balance between passiveness and aggressiveness that Kyler lacks (at this time).

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Almost every play call has a vertical element to it so I don't think it is a play issue. I do think Gannon and Petzing are so hyper-focused on playing it safe that Kyler has bought into it which has impacted his game. There is a balance between passiveness and aggressiveness that Kyler lacks.

and we didn't see a timid kyler late in the game yesterday - when the whiners scored their td i was like ok kyler - you need to get a td in this high pressure situation and that's exactly what he did - some are crediting it to a different playbook after conner exited but we were finally moving the ball - and it didn't take 5 minutes to gain 10 yards

you're a million percent right - we weren't aggressive especially at the end

 

[football karma]

Almost every play call has a vertical element to it so I don't think it is a play issue. I do think Gannon and Petzing are so hyper-focused on playing it safe that Kyler has bought into it which has impacted his game. There is a balance between passiveness and aggressiveness that Kyler lacks (at this time).

in my experience, hard problems are typically caused by multiple things rather than just one

so I think the following are all contributing to the offensive issues (no particular order):

Taking "care of the football" risk aversion from Gannon to Petzing to Kyler.

Petzing has few answers for two high safety looks.

They cant run the football consistently.

Kyler is a 2nd tier QB

Very conservative outlook generally when tied or up.

 

[BritCard]

Either way, Kyler put the ball where it had to be. It doesn't matter what he averaged YPA because he did nothing to cost us the game, Demacardo could've walked in & that would be the score we needed.

That was in mid Q3 and would have put us up 10-6. You have no idea how the game plays out after that but almost certainly not the same way that we end up with a safety.

 

[BritCard]

Wow... seriously?

We lost the game precisely because of the drops. If Jones catches that perfectly thrown ball with two minutes to go, we run out the clock and we're instead talking about how we're the worst 3-0 team in history.

It's undeniable, and your lack of acknowledgement of this fact demonstrates your lack of impartiality on the issue.

The perfectly thrown ball that was behind where it should have been and let the DB make a play on it?

 

[FB94]

I am not going to go full in defending a part of Brit's point, but he has one very valid point.

The current vertical passing game effectiveness is this.

Coming into this game vertical passes to MHJ two deep routes resulting in a 44 yard completion and a 38 yard interference penalty. MHJ got 3 or 4 in the game vs SF. 1 was a 32 yard completion, 1 was a drop, another was a drop but also a PI for 33 yards, and another was an incompletion.

These are all pretty much plus outcomes and should be used even more frequently. Kyler has to push the ball down the field more.

Said the same thing watching the game. We get two chunk plays, one a penalty but the reason they happened is we started to through the dam ball downfield and got positive results on both. So tired of the 14 play 40 yard drives for FG. Take a shot once a quarter and see what happens

 

[MadCardDisease]

Michael Wilson is the only decent WR currently on the roster. However he is at best a #2 WR.

Harrison looks like damaged goods. His body language shows he has zero confidence. He still isn't on the same page as Kyler. He looks like a defeated man before the game even starts. The dude needs to get out of his head because right now he looks mentally and physically soft. I really feel for the kid and hope he can regain his confidence.

I questioned why the Cardinals resigned Zay Jones and didn't go after another option at WR. I feared the WR room was one of the biggest question marks heading into the season. Those fears appear to have been realized.