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[AzStevenCal]

Biyombo and McGee have no issues getting touches with CP3.

And if you looked at their per 36 numbers there's less than 2 points separating DA from McGee (Biyombo is just over 3 points behind Ayton). And there isn't much difference in efficiency either - McGee has a TS of .675, and DA is at .656 (BB trails at .616).

But the problem hasn't been getting Ayton touches nor has it been his efficiency when he gets the ball. IMO it all has to with his on again/off again hands. Too many times we've fed him the ball only to have to reset the offense because he's fumbled it and been unable to convert as a result (and sometimes it's just a turnover).

DA was asked to (forced to) focus on other responsibilities for the benefit of the team. I don't know why this is even being challenged, it's fairly routine. But if this was 1995 he'd be fed 25 times a game and he'd have monster numbers. And we'd be a slightly lesser team for it.

 

[Chaplin]

Not during the 4th quarter when CP3 calls his own number and just starts putting up middies.

That has nothing to do with DA or anyone else. CP3 is a proven clutch player. That’s not DA sacrificing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It does matter because the three I referenced happen to be arguably the three most important people on this team. And no, it has nothing to do with anyone's ego. It's just the way it is. This team loves to praise each other for their contributions. it's one of the strengths of this team. When Biyombo plays well, he gets a lot of praise. When Mikal plays well, the team goes out of its way to make sure it;s acknowledged. It can seem disingenuine and exaggerated, but it also shows the chemistry of this team.

Two things can be right at the same time: DA should and could play better and the team doesnt utilize him to his fullest potential. I know he can handle the ball along the perimeter more than just handoffs and screens. I know he can take more outside jumpers. But when you're the best team in the NBA, you dont need that from your center, so I can understand why he's being used the way he's being used.

First, I do believe he’s sacrificed offensive volume numbers. But I’m curious, just how much do you think he’s sacrificing?

Is he capable of being the leading scorer on a playoff team right now?

The second leading scorer on a playoff team?

If we featured him more offensively would we still be where we are at or would we have sacrificed wins? And if so, how many wins?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep. Ayton isnt some outlier. Chris Bosh had to do the same for the Big 3 in Miami. Kevin Love did the same in Cleveland. Both bigs who had to sacrifice for perimeter players on championship-caliber teams.

Ayton would be a 21+ PPG scorer on Orlando and Detroit easily. Debatable whether or not that would lead to those teams becoming contenders, but highlights the Suns's needs for the many outweighing the needs of the few. There will be games where DA has to score 25 because Booker is off, but that isnt on a night-to-night basis. Just like Mikal can score 5 points in a game and be fine with it. What this team needs from DA is to defend the rim and the other team's big. My concern is whether DA wants to continue this sacrifice while he's in his early-to-mid 20s.

Okay this kind of addresses my questions. I think this comment is kinda nuts.

 

[Suns_fan69]

First, I do believe he’s sacrificed offensive volume numbers. But I’m curious, just how much do you think he’s sacrificing?

Is he capable of being the leading scorer on a playoff team right now?

The second leading scorer on a playoff team?

If we featured him more offensively would we still be where we are at or would we have sacrificed wins? And if so, how many wins?

The biggest sacrifice is that he's sacrificing development. He's not getting reps being the focal point of the offense. Again, not saying he's worth it, or that he deserves it, just saying that he could get those opportunities on other teams.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Touches. How are you even still arguing this? You pretty heard Monty and Paul say the same thing. The national media also says this.

How many times have we seen Ayton just get off to a crazy start and never see the ball again?

As far as inconsistent goes he’s one of the most efficient players in the NBA.

Absolutely. On low volume. When his volume increases his efficiency tends to drop. Which is fairly normal. But what his efficiency numbers don’t indicate is the turnovers he’s not credited with when balls bounce off his hands (those are credited to the passers usually, but more often than not their Ayton’s fault) or the times guards strip the ball from him down low.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s grown tremendously. His playoff run was impressive. I think he’s still got a lot of growth ahead of him. But I think if anyone thinks he could be the #1 or #2 option on even a play-in team at this point in his career they’re smoking some premium stuff.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Biyombo and McGee have no issues getting touches with CP3.

They definitely do a better job of sealing their defender and going stronger to the rim than does Ayton. Neither are quite as skilled as Ayton offensively though.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not during the 4th quarter when CP3 calls his own number and just starts putting up middies.

Unless the big commits to cp3, at which point he always hits the roller. Just most teams play their big in drop coverage. Heck we did it against the hawks and young murdered us with Paul’s game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The biggest sacrifice is that he's sacrificing development. He's not getting reps being the focal point of the offense. Again, not saying he's worth it, or that he deserves it, just saying that he could get those opportunities on other teams.

I think that’s a legitimate point. But development of different parts people’s games usually comes in the offseason. It’s not unusual for players to come back from the offseason having added some aspect to their game. A fadeaway, a hook shot, more distance on their jumper, a quicker release, etc. But that’s on him to do. Is he motivated and self-aware enough to do so? I still dunno. He has a really high opinion of where he already resides. There’s some kyler murray in him.

 

[Phrazbit]

That has nothing to do with DA or anyone else. CP3 is a proven clutch player. That’s not DA sacrificing.

There are not a lot of big man, with the skills that Ayton has, that would be fine going such long stretches without seeing the ball... and still bust their butt on defense and the glass.

I agree that Ayton is not a super-max player and his inconsistency can be maddening, but there is no question that he has sacrificed on offense for the benefit of the team. He plays great defense, he sets hard screens and he gobbles up rebounds... meanwhile his shots per game are significantly down these last 2 seasons compared to his first 2.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And if you looked at their per 36 numbers there's less than 2 points separating DA from McGee (Biyombo is just over 3 points behind Ayton). And there isn't much difference in efficiency either - McGee has a TS of .675, and DA is at .656 (BB trails at .616).

But the problem hasn't been getting Ayton touches nor has it been his efficiency when he gets the ball. IMO it all has to with his on again/off again hands. Too many times we've fed him the ball only to have to reset the offense because he's fumbled it and been unable to convert as a result (and sometimes it's just a turnover).

DA was asked to (forced to) focus on other responsibilities for the benefit of the team. I don't know why this is even being challenged, it's fairly routine. But if this was 1995 he'd be fed 25 times a game and he'd have monster numbers. And we'd be a slightly lesser team for it.

Not a fan of per 36 numbers when the minutes are so far apart. Biyombo and McGee would probably be in constant foul trouble if they were relied upon to play 30+ minutes per game. They would have to be far less aggressive defensively if they wanted to consistently stay on the floor that long.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not a fan of per 36 numbers when the minutes are so far apart. Biyombo and McGee would probably be in constant foul trouble if they were relied upon to play 30+ minutes per game. They would have to be far less aggressive defensively if they wanted to consistently stay on the floor that long.

Sure but it was the only way I could think of to challenge the idea that it's Ayton's fault that he doesn't get a lot of touches.

 

[Chaplin]

There are not a lot of big man, with the skills that Ayton has, that would be fine going such long stretches without seeing the ball... and still bust their butt on defense and the glass.

I agree that Ayton is not a super-max player and his inconsistency can be maddening, but there is no question that he has sacrificed on offense for the benefit of the team. He plays great defense, he sets hard screens and he gobbles up rebounds... meanwhile his shots per game are significantly down these last 2 seasons compared to his first 2.

And yet he was a far worse player his first two years. Do you really want to use that as your measuring stick?

 

[Mainstreet]

It sounds like the Bucks drop out of competition for Dennis Schroder.

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[Finito]

And yet he was a far worse player his first two years. Do you really want to use that as your measuring stick?

He really wasn’t bad his first two years at all

What do you consider “bad”

 

[Finito]

Anyways

Any new rumors I need them in my life

 

[overseascardfan]

Me.

NOW BOW DOWN TO CHEESE ALMIGHTY!!!!!!!’

Respect.

Why? Where do you see him with us? He's been moved to the power forward spot this season where he's been his most effective. He'd be an upgrade in some areas as a backup PF or maybe even as a starter if we trade Crowder but I'm not sure I'd put him in front of CamJ. I can't see using him at the 2 but I guess he could help us backing up Mikal. But then we're still missing what we really need, a ballhandler that can defend quickness and generate his own offense.

I'm not sure why NO would want to move him anyway. He might be a little overpaid but considering they have a team option this year (and next) they really have no need to take back anything that doesn't give them real value.

SCOUTING REPORT
A hard-driving, hard-working, highly energetic playmaker on the wing. He will not be out-hustled; he's constantly driving to the hoop on offense, and has great focus as a shooter (helping him hit for an uncommonly high percentage from the field). Puts pressure on opponents at both ends of the floor. Passes and rebounds well too. While a solid source of steals he's somewhat limited in certain defensive situations by a lack of ideal size and length for a wing. Additionally, although he's a solid 3-point shooter he can get streaky from the perimeter.

Dude can shoot, pass, rebound and defend. He's not a bad ball handler just not a primary ball handler. He not small (6'5) so he can defend the perimeter against smaller PG's like Curry.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

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Listen til the end of what Monty says about DA. He’s averaging 16 and 11 and he still hasn’t put it all together. I think it’s a mentality thing….tomorrow is a perfect example. Joel can put 30-40 on him but what does he do back? Does he get him in foul trouble? Does he shrink? He needs to start believing he’s the best big man in basketball. He may not be, but it’s all about mindset. That proverbial “light switch”. When he decides to tap into it he’ll be talked about with Joker and Embiid.

 

[Mainstreet]

How about we trade the Knicks Payton for McBride.

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[elindholm]

You’ve pretty much had the entire Suns organization say they’ve asked him to sacrifice on offense and the national media tell you the same thing yet here you are. Nope there all wrong and I’m right. Monty? Wrong.

So now you trust the mainstream media? What changed?

 

[Cheesebeef]

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Listen til the end of what Monty says about DA. He’s averaging 16 and 11 and he still hasn’t put it all together. I think it’s a mentality thing….tomorrow is a perfect example. Joel can put 30-40 on him but what does he do back? Does he get him in foul trouble? Does he shrink? He needs to start believing he’s the best big man in basketball. He may not be, but it’s all about mindset. That proverbial “light switch”. When he decides to tap into it he’ll be talked about with Joker and Embiid.

Amen. And even with hook, which he is starting to hit more consistently, he still kinda fades on it a lot. If he goes up strong with that, no one is blocking it and it could become a devastating weapon in the offense.

Meanwhile, if any of us said what Monty said, a couple posters would accuse those people of being haters.

 

[Finito]

So now you trust the mainstream media? What changed?

Oooh what a controversial take that the media can be bought.

Damn your feelings got hurt. Can’t even say they didn’t.

Your better than this.

 

[Muggz]

What about De'Aaron Fox? Could/should we get that guy? Would he play backup PG behind CP3 for a contender?

 

[Finito]

Amen. And even with hook, which he is starting to hit more consistently, he still kinda fades on it a lot. If he goes up strong with that, no one is blocking it and it could become a devastating weapon in the offense.

Meanwhile, if any of us said what Monty said, a couple posters would accuse those people of being haters.

No that’s not it at all.

But it goes both ways the haters hate even on stuff he does well.For example on the game thread

Saying “since he rarely gets 10 rebounds” when in fact he averages 10.5 for the season. Even you can see that. Trying to knock his rebounding by saying he pretty much never gets the number that he averages.

Or saying he doesn’t dive hard on the pick and roll when in fact he does it very well and it’s been noted last year and this year that him and Paul are near the top of the league in pick and roll efficiency.

Is he perfect? On defense he’s pretty damn good almost elite, but on offense he def takes a back seat.

I don’t think he’s ever gonna be that guy. That ultra aggressive big man on offense. That’s just not him.

 

[Phrazbit]

And yet he was a far worse player his first two years. Do you really want to use that as your measuring stick?

The measuring stick is that he is getting less touches for the benefit of the team and isn't complaining. He is sacrificing his own offensive stats for the good of the team... I don't see how this is even debatable.