Deandre Ayton discussion

[Shaggy]

Stat wise not a great game again. However, go back and watch the game. When Ayton went to the bench the Lakers were getting points in the paint.

That’s not a coincidence. He anchored our defense and had a great overall series.

Totally agree, but what is frustrating time and time again, is he gets a great pass under the basket, instead of just going up instantly and jamming it, he brings it down and allows the smaller players that chance to swipe at it, and 99% of time loses the ball.. He just needs to learn to be stronger under there.

 

[Hoop Head]

He's not going to be able to be up and down against Denver. There won't be any nights where "we don't need him" either because Jokic is going to be a handful. Hopefully we see the DA who was there for the first 4 games of the Lakers series. Even game 5 Ayton wouldn't be awful but we're not beating the Nuggets without him fully engaged.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He's not going to be able to be up and down against Denver. There won't be any nights where "we don't need him" either because Jokic is going to be a handful. Hopefully we see the DA who was there for the first 4 games of the Lakers series. Even game 5 Ayton wouldn't be awful but we're not beating the Nuggets without him fully engaged.

i think he has a bit of a motivation problem. He was everywhere when it was Mano A Mano against Davis. Was a little less in Game 5 without him and tonight with Davis’ corpse out there, I think there was a little let up.

I believe a series against Joker will motivate him again.

 

[Covert Rain]

They kept getting them when he returned as well. We just hit some big shots to counter them.

What I am talking about is you could see they were purposely attacking the paint as soon as he went to the bench. Getting there while he was in there was often because of defensive breakdowns which is different. The Lakers talked about all series long scheming to get a Ayton out of the middle.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What I am talking about is you could see they were purposely attacking the paint as soon as he went to the bench. Getting there while he was in there was often because of defensive breakdowns which is different. The Lakers talked about all series long scheming to get a Ayton out of the middle.

Yes I realize that. Because for most of the series he was a huge deterrent in the paint. Not as much last night in the second half.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Yes I realize that. Because for most of the series he was a huge deterrent in the paint. Not as much last night in the second half.

That's not necessarily DA's fault though, LA went small specifically to try and neutralize his interior defense. Gasol, Drummond, and Harrell all rode pine from about midpoint of the 3rd quarter and they had Kieff or Bron playing 5 the rest of the way.

 

[Western Font]

I know I was relieved when he came back in early in the 4th. The Lakers were on the attack, and a momentum shift was to be expected, but it felt like they had to respect him in the paint and it’s nice to see that he’s established that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's not necessarily DA's fault though, LA went small specifically to try and neutralize his interior defense. Gasol, Drummond, and Harrell all rode pine from about midpoint of the 3rd quarter and they had Kieff or Bron playing 5 the rest of the way.

Sorry, if another team can effectively scheme your impact out of the game, you didn’t have a good game. It’s pretty simple. Really good players don’t allow themselves to be minimized.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sorry, if another team can effectively scheme your impact out of the game, you didn’t have a good game. It’s pretty simple. Really good players don’t allow themselves to be minimized.

Yeah, Ayton is big but he can play with small ball lineups because he is quite mobile. The problem is he seems to get lost on the court sometimes.

Ayton should have been a force offensively and rebounding when the Lakers went small not to mention a target for easy lobs over the top of the defense.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes I realize that. Because for most of the series he was a huge deterrent in the paint. Not as much last night in the second half.

No doubt but they talked about it post game. They had to game plan around Ayton because overall he played so well in the series. They said they had to change the offense whenever he was out there.

 

[95pro]

In fairness, they did mob Ayton last night. He got a few calls but the refs let them by physical with him as much as they wanted.

 

[Larry Schweikart]

There is another factor. The Suns have historically been one of the
worst teams in the league in developing big men (for a long time).

Example? Ayton is not showing power in the post on offense, so
what do they do? Encourage him to take 3-point shots after
setting picks. And watch him do finger rolls rather than jams.

Big men might take more time to develop, but you must see
steady progress. And ours haven't shown it until they leave
the Suns. And find out where their skill sets level off.

With very few exceptions, the Suns have always been a
Guard and Wing oriented team. Just as they are now.

I am a really, really old timer. I was here with the Connie Hawkins Suns. And you're 100% right. This is nearly a mental thing that developed
after the Suns lost the Alcindor coin flip and became a forward-dominated team (Hawkins/Silas) then Guard/High Post (Westphal/Adams).

It is really interesting to look at how the Suns constantly looked for an identity---high post with Adams, later, kind of a guard/forward dominated team with Dennis
Johnson/Maurice Lucas, then the great KJ/Chambers teams with . . . who? Can't hardly remember the centers . . . then the KJ/Barkey team. Fast forward to D'Antoni and again you get the
reality that he doesn't have a center, so he used Stoudamire as a center in a run and gun. It really was a variation of the old Westphal/Adams teams cuz Adams played more like a small forward than a center. I suggest all of this was embedded in the team by Colangelo when he lost that coin flip and they still never learned how to play with a true big man (see the horrid season with Shaq--and yes, he was beyond his prime, but still, that was the worst of all worlds).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In fairness, they did mob Ayton last night. He got a few calls but the refs let them by physical with him as much as they wanted.

Agree, but stars overcome that. Happens to them all the time.

 

[Finito]

Still huh

 

[Raze]

Yeah, Ayton is big but he can play with small ball lineups because he is quite mobile. The problem is he seems to get lost on the court sometimes.

Ayton should have been a force offensively and rebounding when the Lakers went small not to mention a target for easy lobs over the top of the defense.

I suppose DA could have played better, but there's a serious argument to be had that he wasn't put in a place to succeed.

I'm as big a fan of Monty as anyone here, but I was disappointed in his lack of adjustments mid game. When they are running those high pressure half court traps a great way to minimize it is to pass the ball to DA at the elbow. From there he can:
See over the top of the smaller defender
pass back door to the cutting wing on the over extended denial
shoot over the top of the smaller defender
attack the basket with a strong advantage on the boards

Also, why in the heck were we not feeding him in the post with small defenders on him? Our offense in the 2nd half was beyond stagnant. DA in the post could have alleviated it.

I just find it hard to bag on him too much when he touched the ball like 5 times in the second half.

 

[Beaver]

I think Ayton will be up for Jokic. He seemed to disappear after Davis was out of the picture.

 

[WhyAlwaysMe]

End boss time for DA:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[mjb21aztd]

Still huh

Ayton slowly making me forget suns passin on luka

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

It started in the bubble imo, Ayton started rising to the occasion during big moments but would still get the ticky tack fouls and end up missing minutes

That's one of the biggest leaps Ayton has made in my opinion, and he's still getting better at foul management. The confidence and agility have been so much fun to watch, he's out there realizing he can bang with anybody

 

[leclerc]

What I am talking about is you could see they were purposely attacking the paint as soon as he went to the bench. Getting there while he was in there was often because of defensive breakdowns which is different. The Lakers talked about all series long scheming to get a Ayton out of the middle.

Lakers, who?

 

[leclerc]

That's not necessarily DA's fault though, LA went small specifically to try and neutralize his interior defense. Gasol, Drummond, and Harrell all rode pine from about midpoint of the 3rd quarter and they had Kieff or Bron playing 5 the rest of the way.

In defense of these Lakers (?) they were not the only team having problems with the Suns this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It started in the bubble imo, Ayton started rising to the occasion during big moments but would still get the ticky tack fouls and end up missing minutes

That's one of the biggest leaps Ayton has made in my opinion, and he's still getting better at foul management. The confidence and agility have been so much fun to watch, he's out there realizing he can bang with anybody

This series he really did a great job not allowing fouls to limit him.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Sorry, if another team can effectively scheme your impact out of the game, you didn’t have a good game. It’s pretty simple. Really good players don’t allow themselves to be minimized.

Don't disagree in the slightest. I mentioned in another thread that Ayton just couldn't make LA pay for putting Markieff on him, and that's ultimately what led to him not playing much in the 4th.

This series he really did a great job not allowing fouls to limit him.

Yup. He very rarely bit on fakes by anyone this series. I'd love to see him push up just a little bit more on shooters outside, but he contested well without fouling and was able to avoid offensive fouls for the most part.

 

[Dr. Jones]

This was great!

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[Mainstreet]

I'd feel better if Deandre Ayton had performed better the last two games of the Lakers series: 8 points and 7 rebounds in Game 5 and 8 points and 3 rebounds in Game 6.

He was on another level in the first four games.