Whiz is Toast

[Covert Rain]

Wow....there is so much wrong with this thread I don't even know where to start. To begin with losing 3 players of this calibur (Warner, Boldin and Dansby) would give even the best coaches in the NFL heart burn.

 

[Mulli]

You don't have to be at Cardinal practices to know they are soft...even though thanks to NFL Network's practice coverage it was clear from the practices I saw that the practices were soft...

It shows up in how the players play.


Whiz is toast by this time next year after yet another season of embarrassing blowout losses.

So did Whiz change the nature of the practices just prior to this season? Are you going to tell me this is yet another whiz flaw Warner was able to overcome?

 

[desertdawg]

I don't think I have ever seen a thread hit 2000 views in less than 24 hrs here.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Wow....there is so much wrong with this thread I don't even know where to start. To begin with losing 3 players of this calibur (Warner, Boldin and Dansby) would give even the best coaches in the NFL heart burn.

I don't dispute this at all but I think the problem many posters have is..'look who he replaced them with' and the results speak for themselves.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I don't think I have ever seen a thread hit 2000 views in less than 24 hrs here.

You mean over the whole four months?

IMO this thread is an all time low for the board's collective common sense.

Like Cheese said criticizing Wiz is one thing for this past season. Asking for him to be fired shows little depth of thought, context, perspective, or understanding of how the NFL works.

JMHO.

I am going to refrain from discussing further as I can't even take the people who bring it up seriously.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't dispute this at all but I think the problem many posters have is..'look who he replaced them with' and the results speak for themselves.

You said "who he". Last time I checked the Front Office didn't give him a blank check to replace those players with anybody of quality. In fact, all reports I read is that the Cards were being conservative because of the uncapped year.

How soon people forget who holds the purse strings on this team.

 

[john h]

I couldn't figure why he would yank Skelton after everything he was showing. Skelton played extremely well for a rookie, his only turnover in that game was off a tipped pass. Not a DA style interception mind you, but a tipped pass that the defense gotta hold of.

Whiz pulls QBs in and out, I get that. Whiz can be successful with an awesome QB that can audible, I get that too.

That was jacked up pulling Skelton out. Did Whiz promise what's his name some time on the field if he came to the Cards? Is that what we have become?

Most QBs are happy to sign with most NFL teams, why didn't one of the better scrubs from the scrub league sign with us after DA and Hall bit the dust.

Whiz gets another year to right the ship and he does deserve it. He did after all get Skelton here, I just wish he would have left him in there.

Whiz never made adjustments this year, same plays as game 1, most of them in shotgun. When any other OC would have game planned their play call around our rookie QBs and DA utter crappiness. He needs a OC from the out side world to come in and re-boot this mess.

Only real difference in my stance is I don't see Whiz changing anything. I see us not making the play-offs next year and that hurts to type. Nice write up Mitch, I imagine others will not agree with it the way I do, but hang in there.

We as usual dance all around what is wrong with the Cardinals. Yes it is part QB, part coaching, part team chemistry, part losing some of your best players but most of all it starts at the top. I guess since we cannot change what is at the top we just ignore it as being very much the reason for all our problems. The Kurt Warner were an anomaly. We accidently got a great QB because other teams thought he was done for. We are not now nor have ever been a pro active team when it comes to coaches and players.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Wow....there is so much wrong with this thread I don't even know where to start. To begin with losing 3 players of this calibur (Warner, Boldin and Dansby) would give even the best coaches in the NFL heart burn.

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As great as Fitz is, Rivers is better. Search Krangthebrain + Philip Rivers and you will see I was a huge fan of the guy.

Just don't search Krangthebrain + Byron Leftwich.

I think everyone agrees that if Whiz doesn't change his ways from this season we're doomed.

Before the "Fire Whiz" train gets too much steam, he needs a couple more seasons before I would even consider the possibility of his being fired seriously.

The telling thing will be can he adapt, learn from mistakes, and make this team better.

"One losing season since 2006? I cant take this!"

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[john h]

Am I the only one that heard the 'radio' broadcast of the game? At the beginning, they mentioned that Skelton would likely be pulled at some point so that the coaches could see Bartell in live action. When Skelton was pulled, the reaction was that this was to be expected since it was the LAST game of the year without any playoff ramification.

I really don't understand all the wailing about this particular event.

Maybe the coach was trying to save the body of Skelton as he was taking some big hits?

 

[john h]

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Just don't search Krangthebrain + Byron Leftwich.



Before the "Fire Whiz" train gets too much steam, he needs a couple more seasons before I would even consider the possibility of his being fired seriously.

The telling thing will be can he adapt, learn from mistakes, and make this team better.

Since when does Mr. Bidwill pay two head coaches at the same time? That is not part of his M.O. Whiz will most likely be here until his contract expires.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

We as usual dance all around what is wrong with the Cardinals. Yes it is part QB, part coaching, part team chemistry, part losing some of your best players but most of all it starts at the top. I guess since we cannot change what is at the top we just ignore it as being very much the reason for all our problems. The Kurt Warner were an anomaly. We accidently got a great QB because other teams thought he was done for. We are not now nor have ever been a pro active team when it comes to coaches and players.

Since when does Mr. Bidwill pay two head coaches at the same time? That is not part of his M.O. Whiz will most likely be here until his contract expires.

Good question...my guess is "never"?

Look at the moves ownership had this off season. It's not like they didn't see the CBA going down the tubes, and the potential of no football next season due to a lockout. They made a savvy business decision, and strengthened their cash position by cutting payroll by 20% in an uncapped year.

As a consequence, our team sank.

 

[azsouthendzone]

The Vikings went 8-8 in 1991 with Gerry Burns as coach.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/1991_roster.htm

Some seriously good players were on that roster when Green got there.

And he maintained that level of talent the decade he was there. He didn't have a complete blowout four years in.

Speaking of Green, how many years does it realistically take to build a team from scratch? 2? 3? 4? This includes obtaining players and getting them all on the same page after experiencing losing. Just want to know what Whisenhunt's time line is, because Denny was run after 3 years. Does Whiz get 3 seasons or is that not enough?

Denny's teams did not get blown out. They just couldn't close out games. They also went on a run his final year to close out the year. With the same team Whiz lost some tough ones his first year going 8-8, then 9-7 the year after.

Don't underestimate the fact the players grew with each other as one reason why they got over the hump. People say Whiz helped Warner thrive...Some validity but Warner looked pretty good once he put on gloves at the end of 2006 and the offense was pretty good under Green with Warner or Leinart.

 

[chickenhead]

Well, the original poster can consider himself painted into a corner. Because even if Whiz does make improvements, he's been judged down to his very essence here.

This year ended in shambles--that's for sure. But how the coordinators and QB are addressed this offseason will affect things tremendously. I don't want a new coach: I want new coordinators.

 

[Mulli]

Well, the original poster can consider himself painted into a corner. Because even if Whiz does make improvements, he's been judged down to his very essence here.

This year ended in shambles--that's for sure. But how the coordinators and QB are addressed this offseason will affect things tremendously. I don't want a new coach: I want new coordinators.

Yep, Mitch guaranteed Whiz is fired this time next year.

 

[kerouac9]

Offcourse he has potential. If he develops the skills he lacks, he can play the game. He needs to learn the game pre snap and audible out of some terrible calls. That takes alot time to learn. If he puts on some weight and learns speed of the game, he will also learn to deal with pressure. Brees learned it eventually.

So yes, he has potential. But it is very unlikely to learn all those things over one season, if ever.

Skelton has more serious problems. He is very inaccurate and just doesn't understand the game at all. he needs to start from scratch and learn how to read defenses. Basic stuff. Has potential as well, just unlikely to learn all that in a single offseason. He needs at leat two years of coaching to play pro game.

I'm not wading through the rest of this thread, but I have to disagree with you here, Early. Max Hall simply does not have the arm to play at the NFL level. Not as a starter, and barely as a camp body.

You don't have to have elite arm strength to play in the NFL, but you have to pass a certain threshold, and Max Hall doesn't have that. He's 25; he's not suddenly going to develop a fast ball. You can't win in the NFL as a knuckle-ball pitcher.

After the Seattle game, there was an interview with Marcus Trufant, and they asked him about Hall. His reply was that they didn't know who he was, but they could see that he couldn't throw the ball.

He's not a guy who can survive on moxie like Jeff Garcia. Compared to Max Hall, Jeff Garcia is Michael Vick. Max Hall has no potential to play at this level.

 

[Duckjake]

You said "who he". Last time I checked the Front Office didn't give him a blank check to replace those players with anybody of quality. In fact, all reports I read is that the Cards were being conservative because of the uncapped year.

How soon people forget who holds the purse strings on this team.

Do you really think that CKW brought in Faneca and Porter and Rhodes and Lenon because he didn't have the budget to get better players?

Interesting if true.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Max Hall has no potential to play at this level.

Agreed. He can't even hold onto the ball long enough to throw it for Pete's sake.

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There is now a level zero.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Considering that Green brought in Warner the next season I don't see how not drafting Rivers or BenR hurt the franchise at all. Drafting Leinart instead of Cutler maybe. But not taking Fitz in '04.

14 years of franchise QB play >>>> 2 years

Hope that helped

 

[Mulli]

I'm not wading through the rest of this thread, but I have to disagree with you here, Early. Max Hall simply does not have the arm to play at the NFL level. Not as a starter, and barely as a camp body.

You don't have to have elite arm strength to play in the NFL, but you have to pass a certain threshold, and Max Hall doesn't have that. He's 25; he's not suddenly going to develop a fast ball. You can't win in the NFL as a knuckle-ball pitcher.

After the Seattle game, there was an interview with Marcus Trufant, and they asked him about Hall. His reply was that they didn't know who he was, but they could see that he couldn't throw the ball.

He's not a guy who can survive on moxie like Jeff Garcia. Compared to Max Hall, Jeff Garcia is Michael Vick. Max Hall has no potential to play at this level.

Agreed. He can't even hold onto the ball long enough to throw it for Pete's sake.

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There is now a level zero.

I am now very sad I ever heard of Max Hall, let alone watched him play.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Do you really think that CKW brought in Faneca and Porter and Rhodes and Lenon because he didn't have the budget to get better players?

Interesting if true.

Opposed to the better more expensive options that were available? Yes.

Its called playing the cards your dealt.

For a guy who has been a Cardinals fan for many many years, this poor season has seemed to make you unusually bitter and ready to cut bait with the one guy who has been the impetus behind any modicum of success we have had in over 30 years. To each his own I guess.

 

[desertdawg]

I hope Hall gets his one NFL TD ball signed by Fitz.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'd really suggest we hold our fire until we know what precisely is going on here.

We don't know who made what suggestions that resulted in certain personnel moves - both good and bad.

We don't know if everyone was in full agreement or whether there were dissenters.

We don't know if everyone involved in the decision-making was (a) consistently brilliant, (b) consistently dummass or (c) pretty much a mixed bag (i.e. for every Levi Brown or Matt Leinart decision, there was a DRC or Hightower).

We don't know whether our decsion-makers had all the facts or whether there were gaps in the team's homework & knowledge-base.

Here's what I think: The Cardinals, as an organization, by and large have done a pretty good job of talent evaluation, but they made a fatal blunder with regard to QB and deficiencies on the O-line finally caught up with them. Get those two things right and we're right back in the Super Bowl hunt (two big "ifs" but we shouldn't need to fire half the people onboard in order to get it fixed).

 

[Duckjake]

14 years of franchise QB play >>>> 2 years

Hope that helped

It's been 14 years since 2004?!?! Man time flies.

But then again are you claiming that the Cards would have made the Super Bowl with Cutler or BenR? There is no way you can know that. We do know they went with Warner.

 

[Mulli]

It's been 14 years since 2004?!?! Man time flies.

But then again are you claiming that the Cards would have made the Super Bowl with Cutler or BenR? There is no way you can know that. We do know they went with Warner.

I will take the fun of the Super Bowl run.

 

[Duckjake]

Opposed to the better more expensive options that were available? Yes.

Its called playing the cards your dealt.

For a guy who has been a Cardinals fan for many many years, this poor season has seemed to make you unusually bitter and ready to cut bait with the one guy who has been the impetus behind any modicum of success we have had in over 30 years. To each his own I guess.

Like who? What better, more expensive players were available and where is there information that proves CKW wanted them over the guys he did bring in?

Yes I am bitter. Because for 30 years I thought 5-11 was a normal season. Then the Cards won and I realized that it wasn't and so I am no longer willing to accept crap like 2010 for the Cardinals.

And again here is a post claiming I want CKW fired when I've never written that at all.