Your Minute Distribution Estimation

YouJustGotSUNSD

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Estimated minutes breakdown (assuming dragic)

Nash 30
Bell 30
Hill 24
Amare 32
Shaq 24
Barbosa 28
Diaw 28
Dragic 12
Barnes 15
Lopez 12
Strawberry 5
Tucker
Amudson

=240

Im optimistic about our depth this season. I couldn't even divy the minutes up for everyone.
 

arwillan

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i think barnes will definitely get more minutes than that. i expect dragic to be getting a few more than that as well.
 

Irish

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I doubt you can ever find a team with the per minutes ad up to 240. What happens is that there are guys who might play 15 minutes one night and DNP the next. Another is that use varies, such as if they fullfill their hope that Dragic could start on the second of back to back games with Nash sitting those games out.

IMHO, the best way to develop depth is to have some guys play a lot of minutes on a regular but not every game basis. Three minutes of garbage time is not of much value. Extended minutes on a regular basis prepares the guys to fill in for injured players, while garbage time doesn't.

Another issue is using guys in "roles". Defensive specialists and three point specialists are common examples. They can have wildly different minutes depending on the opponent.
 

Bigdez22

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Estimated minutes breakdown (assuming dragic)

Nash 30
Bell 30
Hill 24
Amare 32
Shaq 24
Barbosa 28
Diaw 28
Dragic 12
Barnes 15
Lopez 12
Strawberry 5
Tucker

Amudson

=240

Im optimistic about our depth this season. I couldn't even divy the minutes up for everyone.

I like it.

the only prob i see is Stat at 32 a game.

Shaq at 20 to 22
Diaw at 24 to 26
Bell at 25
Barnes to 20 and Stat around 36 to 38 min a game. The rest is solid
 

Irish

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Defense should effect the overall averages. Under D'Antoni, they had to play their starters until the last minute or so because they so frequently lost big leads due to weak crunch defense.

The Suns personality was that they could only protect a lead by scoring a lot of points. When the other team would start playing really intense defense, the Suns would miss shots and the other team could quickly get back into the game. The result was that the Suns would have to keep starters in a long time.

But if the Suns are able to match the intensivty with backups, it will slow their opponents down when try to make a run. This will let the backups stay on the court longer.

Making runs means taking quick snots, something the Suns are used to doing but most teams aren't. This gives the Suns a chance to get out and run IF they get the hustle rebounds and really attack the basket at the other end. I think this team's bench is being set up to play that way to a much greater degree than in the past.

Another element of having a lot of energy guys on the bench is that this type of guy can be effective in short minutes. Usually shooters need time to warm up and "get the feel of the game". Jimmy Jackson was a classic in that sense. Jumaine Johnson was a guy who never could get enough minutes to find his range. Leandro is the exception, in that he doesn't need time to warm up; but most shooters do. Guys who are all about hustle and attacking the basket like Barnes and Tucker can have an impact in short minutes. Amundson is like Skinner in that he can be useful in very short increments.

Over the course of the season, this should add up (or at least that's the plan).
 
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arwillan

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I like it.

the only prob i see is Stat at 32 a game.

Shaq at 20 to 22
Diaw at 24 to 26
Bell at 25
Barnes to 20 and Stat around 36 to 38 min a game. The rest is solid

amare at 36-38? he's had enough knee issues as it is. if shaq is going to drop to 20-22 a game, lopez needs to be making up his minutes with diaw and even admundson. amare should not be playing that many. 35 max seems appropriate.
 
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Treesquid PhD

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amare at 36-38? he's had enough knee issues as it is. if shaq is going to drop to 20-22 a game, lopez needs to be making up his minutes with diaw and even admundson. amare should not be playing that many. 35 max seems appropriate.

Stat will limit himself below 35 so don't worry about it.
 

sunsallday

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Nash:28-30/Dragic:10-18/Strawberry/4-8
Bell:28-30/Barbosa:-20-28
Barnes(if he starts):28-30/Grant Hill:8-10/Tucker:2-8
Stoudemire(depending how his knee feels):36-38/Diaw:10-18/Amudson:0-5
SHAQ:25-28/Lopez:20-25
 

SirStefan32

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Nash:28-30/Dragic:10-18/Strawberry/4-8
Bell:28-30/Barbosa:-20-28
Barnes(if he starts):28-30/Grant Hill:8-10/Tucker:2-8
Stoudemire(depending how his knee feels):36-38/Diaw:10-18/Amudson:0-5
SHAQ:25-28/Lopez:20-25

Are you serious?
Hill 8-10 minutes? Hill is Suns 3rd or 4th best player, and he's going to play 10 minutes while barnes plays 30?
Lopez 20-25 minutes and Diaw 10-18?
 

SirStefan32

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Nash 30/ Dragic 12/ Barbosa-6
Bell 30/ Barbosa 10/ Barnes 8
Hill 24/ Barnes 14/ Diaw 10
Stoudemire 35/ Diaw 13
Shaq- 28/ Lopez 12/ Diaw 8

So,
Nash- 30
Bell- 30
Hill- 24
Stoudemire- 35
Shaq- 28
----------------------
Diaw- 31
Barnes- 22
Barbosa- 16
Lopez -12
Dragic -12
 

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I've tried to understand rotation theory according to D'Antoni but don't know how Porter will do it. Under D'Antoni, the theory was to divide the minutes into 7 units of 32 with one unit of 16. It didn't work that way in practice because some guys like Marion played more than the plan and some less. But D'Antoni's theory was that the 7 guys would be the same as starters with guys playing multiple positions.

The rotation would have a pattern of one or two starters getting pulled early (as early as the six minute mark), coming back early and getting pulled again before finishing the first half. This generates about 16 to 18 minutes a half. Another might play to the 8 or 9 minutes point, rest until the 3 to 4 minute point in the second quarter and goes to the end of the half. Sometimes they'd play a short segment in the 1st quarter and long in the second. Sometimes they'd switch roles and in other cases pull in some one from the bench. The 8th man would usually come in at the 8 to 9 minute point and finish the quarter and start the next but not finish the half unless to protect a starter from foul trouble.

Adding more players complicates the process even more. It's important that players get used to the fact that their minutes WILL vary. I am hoping that Porter will end D'Antoni's practice of pulling guys who are playing exceptionally well (just because his time allocation is over) but leave him in even when he is NOT playing well just because of the schedule.
 
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shazaam6

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With so many back to backs, I think the plan should be that some starters should play lighter minutes against the easier team and more if needed against the elite teams. This would give more minutes to deep bench players in some games and less in others but in a predictable way so the players can mentally be ready.

In general, against the elite teams, Nash, for example, plays more minutes but gets more rest against sub .400 teams. Against those sub .400 teams Tucker and Strawberry would expect to play.
 

Irish

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With so many back to backs, I think the plan should be that some starters should play lighter minutes against the easier team and more if needed against the elite teams. This would give more minutes to deep bench players in some games and less in others but in a predictable way so the players can mentally be ready.

In general, against the elite teams, Nash, for example, plays more minutes but gets more rest against sub .400 teams. Against those sub .400 teams Tucker and Strawberry would expect to play.

I think they have said explicitly that is the plan. I certainly hope so because the Suns need to have guys ready:

1. Keep starters fresh
2. Be ready in case of injuries and not have to being guys back too soon
3. Be ready for difficult match ups.
4. Be ready to play at full speed even when certain guys have foul trouble
5. Have guys ready in case someone is having a bad game

I think the Suns will have backups who can contribute more than just somebody to practice against. But they need REAL game experience.
 

Bigdez22

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amare at 36-38? he's had enough knee issues as it is. if shaq is going to drop to 20-22 a game, lopez needs to be making up his minutes with diaw and even admundson. amare should not be playing that many. 35 max seems appropriate.


you said 35, and I said 36-38. Most nights Amare plays 35 min or better. his mpg looks the way it does because of games where he gets 26 to 30 MPG in blowouts or games where he fouled out. thats why his mpg is at 33
 

BC867

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I am hoping that Porter will end D'Antoni's practice of pulling guys who are playing exceptionally well (just because his time allocation is over) but leave him in even when he is NOT playing well just because of the schedule.
I am so glad to see you mention that. John MacLeod was the worst in that regard, and was Head Coach for a long time in the Suns history.

Colangelo even brought him back as Sr. Assistant Coach to mentor Scott Skiles, which contributed to his downfall.

Reacting to situations during a game are marks of a good basketball coach.

I think I posted in the past that a great Coach reacts during a game.
A good Coach reacts by the next game.
A piss-poor Coach takes weeks to react, if he reacts at all.
 

playstation

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in an 'average' game:

pg - nash 32 / barbosa 10 / dragic 6
sg - bell 34 / barbosa 8 / barnes 6
sf - hill 28 / barnes 20
pf - amare 34 / diaw 14
c - shaq 28 / lopez 15 / diaw 5

in other words, diaw and barbosa begin to be squeezed out of the rotation (both at <20 min). However, this will be all the more helpful when the inevitable shaq+other injuries happen.

i'm actually most intrigued by an amare/lopez lineup as i'm pretty sure shaq will be starting the season with some phantom injury as usual...
 

arwillan

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you said 35, and I said 36-38. Most nights Amare plays 35 min or better. his mpg looks the way it does because of games where he gets 26 to 30 MPG in blowouts or games where he fouled out. thats why his mpg is at 33

saving 3-7 minutes on a few nights every now and then isn't going to drop his season average all that much.he hasn't played more than 34 a game since his first knee injury and with good reason. even playing that much he still needed another knee surgery. raising his minutes is senseless now that we actually have depth.
 

arwillan

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in an 'average' game:

pg - nash 32 / barbosa 10 / dragic 6
sg - bell 34 / barbosa 8 / barnes 6
sf - hill 28 / barnes 20
pf - amare 34 / diaw 14
c - shaq 28 / lopez 15 / diaw 5

in other words, diaw and barbosa begin to be squeezed out of the rotation (both at <20 min). However, this will be all the more helpful when the inevitable shaq+other injuries happen.

i'm actually most intrigued by an amare/lopez lineup as i'm pretty sure shaq will be starting the season with some phantom injury as usual...


why squeeze them out of the lineup? they are both a part of the future of this franchise at this point.
 
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