Beware These Players in the Draft + Reasons NOT to Draft

Chopper0080

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It’s just a feeling I get watching him. He won’t be a bust, but I don’t think Hutchinson is as good as some are rating him. He looks a little stiff to me. Mediocre against the run. Not good in coverage. Not as polished as I’d like a top pick to be.
He reminds me of Chris Long in that he is going to go high, is well rounded, but not the physically dominating nor athletically dominating player who normally goes top 5.
 

Stout

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There is no rule that definitively establishes low or high sack counts in the NFL based on College output and thus there is no exception to the rule here. Ansah was drafted high because of his elite measurables, Mr. K. has considerably more production than Ansah in College but is not the same quality of athlete. He's a back end of the first round choice IMO and therefore a consideration for the Cards given need.
I understand your reasoning, and that of other posters and draft experts. He's just not the edge player I would want us to pick.
 
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SissyBoyFloyd

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Supposedly Neal could fall due to many teams concerned about an old knee injury and possibly being overworked at Bama. I have never heard this before tonight, but supposedly many GMs feel best Bama players come out overworked after starting for several years under Saban. Could be a reason he might be the 3rd OT taken instead of the 1st.
 

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Supposedly Neal could fall due to many teams concerned about an old knee injury and possibly being overworked at Bama. I have never heard this before tonight, but supposedly many GMs feel best Bama players come out overworked after starting for several years under Saban. Could be a reason he might be the 3rd OT taken instead of the 1st.

Some teams are stupid
 

Chopper0080

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Supposedly Neal could fall due to many teams concerned about an old knee injury and possibly being overworked at Bama. I have never heard this before tonight, but supposedly many GMs feel best Bama players come out overworked after starting for several years under Saban. Could be a reason he might be the 3rd OT taken instead of the 1st.
I would consider trading up for Neal if he fell.
 

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I would consider trading up for Neal if he fell.

Hell yes. He's by far the best player and most sure thing in the draft.

He should go #1. Jags are insane if they don't.

The draft industry is nuts sometimes. He's obviously the best player in the draft but they just seem to get in their own way, both the analysts and NFL teams.
 

Chopper0080

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Hell yes. He's by far the best player and most sure thing in the draft.

He should go #1. Jags are insane if they don't.

The draft industry is nuts sometimes. He's obviously the best player in the draft but they just seem to get in their own way, both the analysts and NFL teams.
I prefer Ekwonu to Neal but it is close.
 

Krangodnzr

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I prefer Ekwonu to Neal but it is close.
Same. Ekwonu just mauls people AND he has an good understanding of technique.

Franchise LTs are still probably the second most valuable position, and even with Humphries, if the Cardinals had a shot at Ekwonu or Neal they have to take that shot.
 

Krangodnzr

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Karlaftis is another player teams seem to be being dumb on.

He's going to be very good in the NFL.
I agree, but where I struggle with Karlaftis is:

Can he be a 3-4 backer? Or is he a 3-4 end?

If he is a 3-4 end, does he play over Zach Allen/JJ Watt?

If the team thinks he's a 3-4 backer, cool, I'm down with taking him. You could also make the argument that he is a good enough team defender that he is worth it on rotation.

Or just take Boye Mafe, who's athletic profile screams elite pass rusher once he gets pro coaching and pro training. Ebiketie does as well. One of them should be there.

What I do like about this draft is that the Cardinals could do a number of things and any of them makes sense.

Mafe, Ebiketie, Pickens, Dotson, Zion Johnson, Linderbaum...all could be pretty good.

If I'm Keim and I had a choice of all of these guys, I'd go with the guy that I thought was the most sure thing. We can all sit here on our keyboards and think we know what the Cardinals know, but we really don't. We don't know which of these guys don't really love football, or what guy has a knee that's about to give out.

That's why as I have gotten older, I'm not nearly as critical of Cardinals drafts as I used to be. There is a significant amount of hoping and projecting that goes on.

Look at Schneider with the Seahawks: after his first three seasons, everyone was about to crown that dude as best GM later. Now he looks like a guy who got extremely lucky. That dude misses constantly. The Seahawks fans would be ecstatic if they drafted an OL as good as DJ Humphries.
 

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I agree, but where I struggle with Karlaftis is:

Can he be a 3-4 backer? Or is he a 3-4 end?

If he is a 3-4 end, does he play over Zach Allen/JJ Watt?

If the team thinks he's a 3-4 backer, cool, I'm down with taking him. You could also make the argument that he is a good enough team defender that he is worth it on rotation.

Or just take Boye Mafe, who's athletic profile screams elite pass rusher once he gets pro coaching and pro training. Ebiketie does as well. One of them should be there.

What I do like about this draft is that the Cardinals could do a number of things and any of them makes sense.

Mafe, Ebiketie, Pickens, Dotson, Zion Johnson, Linderbaum...all could be pretty good.

If I'm Keim and I had a choice of all of these guys, I'd go with the guy that I thought was the most sure thing. We can all sit here on our keyboards and think we know what the Cardinals know, but we really don't. We don't know which of these guys don't really love football, or what guy has a knee that's about to give out.

That's why as I have gotten older, I'm not nearly as critical of Cardinals drafts as I used to be. There is a significant amount of hoping and projecting that goes on.

Look at Schneider with the Seahawks: after his first three seasons, everyone was about to crown that dude as best GM later. Now he looks like a guy who got extremely lucky. That dude misses constantly. The Seahawks fans would be ecstatic if they drafted an OL as good as DJ Humphries.

The 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB thing is overblown. We spend far more time in 4-3 anyway.

But the reason I like Karlaftis the more I watch him is that he's played them all. He's lined up in a 2 point stance at 9T or 7T a bunch. He's been in a 3 point stance at 7T/5T a bunch too. He's even lined up in the B gap at 5T.

He has good size and athleticism to do a bunch of different things for us.

People talk about him like he's stiff as a board or a bad athlete.

He beat Ojabo in VJ and short shuttle. Equalled him in the broad. While carrying 16lbs more. Ojabo didn't bench or 3 cone.

His 3 cone was better than "athletic freaks" like Travon Walker and Nik Bonnito.

His size and athletic profile is very similar to Nick Bosa.
 

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The 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB thing is overblown. We spend far more time in 4-3 anyway.

But the reason I like Karlaftis the more I watch him is that he's played them all. He's lined up in a 2 point stance at 9T or 7T a bunch. He's been in a 3 point stance at 7T/5T a bunch too. He's even lined up in the B gap at 5T.

He has good size and athleticism to do a bunch of different things for us.

People talk about him like he's stiff as a board or a bad athlete.

He beat Ojabo in VJ and short shuttle. Equalled him in the broad. While carrying 16lbs more. Ojabo didn't bench or 3 cone.

His 3 cone was better than "athletic freaks" like Travon Walker and Nik Bonnito.

His size and athletic profile is very similar to Nick Bosa.
Count me as a Karlaftis fan.

Outside of a few guys, there aren't many guys in this draft that posted 10+ sacks per year, at big schools, and are NFL athletes.

Karlaftis didn't post big sack numbers but he got a ton of pressures. He's a super motivated kid who is a phenomenal athlete and seems to care. Those guys are the players you bet on.
 

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Karlaftis is another player teams seem to be being dumb on.

He's going to be very good in the NFL.
Unless we trade down, I think Karlaftis is our pick at 23. He has a non-stop motor and is a great tackler. Something this team needs.
 

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Jermaine Johnson only 18% pass rush win rate. He has a nice spin move that is eye catching, but past that he's not got much in his bag it seems. And he's over 2 years older than Karlaftis.

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Gandhi

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If I'm Keim and I had a choice of all of these guys, I'd go with the guy that I thought was the most sure thing. We can all sit here on our keyboards and think we know what the Cardinals know, but we really don't. We don't know which of these guys don't really love football, or what guy has a knee that's about to give out.
You are obviously correct, Krang, that there is no such thing as a non-developmental draft class, but I certainly like your thinking about maybe not going for the gold, but more look for solid picks. In my opinion, Karlaftis, Zion Johnson, Kenyon Green, Kaiir Elam are that kind. Sure, they could be All Pro or monumental busts, but I think they seem like hard working, blue-collar players.
 

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Krangodnzr

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You are obviously correct, Krang, that there is no such thing as a non-developmental draft class, but I certainly like your thinking about maybe not going for the gold, but more look for solid picks. In my opinion, Karlaftis, Zion Johnson, Kenyon Green, Kaiir Elam are that kind. Sure, they could be All Pro or monumental busts, but I think they seem like hard working, blue-collar players.
I think if you always look for more "sure thing" players, your chances of hitting are much higher.

Look at Nkemdiche. That dude had All Pro talent but never produced. Chris Jones was taken, what? 20 picks later? He was more productive and was a more sure thing.
 
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