Whisenhunt and His Knuckleheads

[Mitch]

Interesting that Whisenhunt has recently been quoted as saying that Kolb and Skelton "played like knuckleheads at times." Now, some may consider this nothing more than an innocuous remark---and some may find it as funny as the silly photo (that accompanies the PFT report of CKW's quote) of Kolb and Skelton sharing a goofy laugh on the sidelines---while others may feel the caustic irony of the remark---

It was Whisenhunt who said last year, prior to trading DRC and a 2nd round pick for 4 year backup Kevin Kolb and signing him to a $65M contract that "I am not comfortable with any of the QBs on the roster."

Perhaps this is CKW's way of reiterating the same sentiment one year later.

Funny that Skelton continues to get called out by his head coach and thrown into a negative light and dubious status when both last year and this year it was Skelton (warts and all) who bailed CKW and the team out by accomplishing the following:

2010:

In his first start, despite never having taken a snap with the first team offense all season (in a season where QB play was dreadful, no less), he leads the team to a 43-13 victory over Denver and breaks the team's hapless 7 game losing streak---despite the egregious fact too that CKW was considering starting street FA Rich Bartel who was still being fitted for a helmet having just been signed.

Leading the exciting comeback 27-26 win versus the Cowboys on Christmas Day.

Finishing 2-2, on the heels of a dismal 3-9 record.

2011:

Takes over in Week 8 when the team was 1-6. Breaks the six game losing streak in his first start versus the Rams.

Goes 6-2 in games where he took the vast majority of the snaps.

Leads the team to 5 4th quarter victories.

Goes 4-0 versus the NFC West---breaking the three straight loss streak to Pete Carroll and the Seahawks---and breaking the five game losing streak to the 49ers.

Skelton's Career:

8-4

6 comeback 4th quarter wins.

4-1 in NFC West. (Team 1-6 versus NFC West last 2 years otherwise)

Team Record in games Skelton did not take the majority of snaps? 5-15.

It can be argued that the two people who saved CKW's butt this past season more than any other were John Skelton and Ray Horton---

Would CKW still be the HC if the team finished as they started and gone 2-14 or 3-13? Especially after last year?

Whisenhunt deserves credit for starting Skelton and for hiring Ray Horton.

However, is it possible that team won despite Whisenhunt and his all too monotonous and predictable offense?---and his penchant for mishandling QBs not named Warner?

Even with Warner---under Whisenhunt, Warner was named the starter in the off-season ONLY once (after his Super Bowl run---and exasperating contract negotiations).

Let it be said as well that Whisenhunt didn't do Horton many favors last off-season---when the off-season moves were focused primarily on the offense---sure, they drafted CB Patrick Peterson in the first round, but that was in part to give them the flexibility to trade for QB Kevin Kolb---and then, having spent a 1st round pick on a RB two years previously, he drafts a RB in Round 2, then with major holes on defense still to address, he drafts a situational pass catching TE in Round 3, a FB in Round 5 (who turned out to be the one impact rookie on offense) and a WR in Round 7.

In free agency---the Cardinals' biggest signing was at LG in Daryn Colledge---they also signed WR Chansi Stuckey, G/T Pork Chop Womack, TEs Jeff King and Todd Heap...to add to QB Kevin Kolb and draftees: RB Ryan Williams (2nd), TE Rob Housler (3rd), FB Anthony Sherman (5th) and WR DeMarco Sampson (7th).

Of these 10 additions on offense, only 3 of them made a consistently positive impact: Colledge, King and Sherman.

On defense the FA signings were backup DE Nick Eason, backup LB Stewart Bradley and CB Richard Marshall. In the THT trade backup DE Vonnie Holliday was added. In the draft Horton gets CB Patrick Peterson (1st), LB Sam Acho (4th), DT David Carter (6th) and LB Quan Sturdivant (6th).

Positive impacts under Horton? Eason, Marshall, Holliday, Peterson, Acho and Carter. ALL of them save Stewart Bradley 9who was outplayed big-time by Paris Lenon) and PS player Sturdivant. And look at how Rhodes developed the 2nd-3rd year young talent in Washington, Williams, Schofield, Johnson and Jefferson. Washington made exceptional strides, in particular, while the others showed solid signs of talent and improvement.

When one looks at what Rhodes was given and what he was able to accomplish---it just goes to show what effective and steady coaching can do.

The biggest irony of all is---who is going to look like the knucklehead when he releases Kevin Kolb? Might as well call Kolb a knucklehead on his way out the door---not exactly funny for a guy who spent the last 5 weeks of the season on the sideline with cobwebhead, largely because the HC's offense repeatedly allows for straight line shots to the QB.

Both John Skelton and Ray Rhodes deserve better this off-season---both deserve votes of confidence---and both deserve stronger support from their HC.

if not, maybe Whisenhunt can replace Kornheiser and join Wilbon on PTI so that he can be the one to wave the Canadian flag and sign off: "Goodnight, knuckleheads."

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If the term "knuckleheads" causes hurt feelings these days, then I don't want to live in this time period anymore.

Knuckleheads ? Really ?

If our QB's can't take that term, see it as the very very soft joking it is, then I have MAJOR concerns about our QB's.

Knuckleheads are the insults parents use on there 5 year old in order to not hurt their feelings.

Seriously. If our QB's have the sensitivity worse then 5 years olds we are in a bad way at the QB position.

As for a vote of confidence ? Some solid, consistent, and decent play would earn a little more confidence.

When you are the second weakest link in the chain, there will be confidence issues.

Like the rest of the post though.

 

[Cardiac]

Not sure why you get so sensitive about Whiz stating the obvious in that both QB's did make a lot of knucklehead plays.

Ray Rhodes = Ray Horton

 

[JeffGollin]

Translation (as I understand it)...

KNUCKLHEADS: "Guys under your supervision whom you love, but will occasionally do dumb or inappropriate things." (alt translation: "guys you'll lovingly give noogies (i.e. knuckles ground into the head) to when they do something dumb").

 

[RugbyMuffin]

KNUCKLHEADS: "Guys under your supervision whom you love, but will occasionally do dumb or inappropriate things." (alt translation: "guys you'll lovingly give noogies (i.e. knuckles ground into the head) to when they do something dumb").

LOL.

Yes, Noogies was the first thing that my mind associated with knucklehead.

Whiz may be able to give "noogies" to his QB's but Kolb might skin him, and Skelton may just sit on him.

 

[Mitch]

If the term "knuckleheads" causes hurt feelings these days, then I don't want to live in this time period anymore.

Knuckleheads ? Really ?

If our QB's can't take that term, see it as the very very soft joking it is, then I have MAJOR concerns about our QB's.

Knuckleheads are the insults parents use on there 5 year old in order to not hurt their feelings.

Seriously. If our QB's have the sensitivity worse then 5 years olds we are in a bad way at the QB position.

As for a vote of confidence ? Some solid, consistent, and decent play would earn a little more confidence.

When you are the second weakest link in the chain, there will be confidence issues.

Like the rest of the post though.

I know you are right, Rugby---but it really bothers me---imagine if your boss announced at the company picnic that you make "knucklehead" decisions at times---is that something, even if somewhat kidding, you want your co-workers to hear?

 

[cardsfanmd]

Hows about you tell the whole story and quote exactly what he said instead of purposely misleading people Mitch?

 

[BigRedRage]

I know you are right, Rugby---but it really bothers me---imagine if your boss announced at the company picnic that you make "knucklehead" decisions at times---is that something, even if somewhat kidding, you want your co-workers to hear?

Reach.

 

[Mitch]

Not sure why you get so sensitive about Whiz stating the obvious in that both QB's did make a lot of knucklehead plays.

Ray Rhodes = Ray Horton

Thanks for the correction---it just shows you what a knucklehead I can be at times!

Whisenhunt's Off-Season QB Comments:

Year 1: "Matt Leinart is the starter."

Year 2: "Matt Leinart is the starter."

Year 3: "Kurt Warner is the starter."

Year 4: "Matt Leinart is the starter...I called him to say that he shouldn't be too concerned about our signing of Derek Anderson and Matty understood."

Year 5: "I am not comfortable with any of the QBs on our roster."

Year 6: "Both deserve to compete for the job, John for the way he played at the back end of the season and Kevin for all the reasons why we brought him here---but at times, both are knuckleheads."

 

[Mitch]

Hows about you tell the whole story and quote exactly what he said instead of purposely misleading people Mitch?

Help me out, MD. What did I miss?

I think I now know what you meant---see next post.

 

[Mitch]

I went back and read the report again and Whisenhunt said that both players deserve to compete for the job---"John for the way he played at the back end of the season" and "Kevin---for all the reasons why we brought him here."..."but both, at times, are knuckleheads."

I don't like him calling them knuckleheads---I just don't...especially when the offense at times is about as QB unfriendly as an offense can be.

 

[Cardiac]

Thanks for the correction---it just shows you what a knucklehead I can be at times!

Yes but you are our knucklehead and even though we don't say it all the time you should know how thrilled we are to have you on the team.

Whisenhunt's Off-Season QB Comments:

Year 1: "Matt Leinart is the starter."

Year 2: "Matt Leinart is the starter."

Year 3: "Kurt Warner is the starter."

Year 4: "Matt Leinart is the starter...I called him to say that he shouldn't be too concerned about our signing of Derek Anderson and Matty understood."

Year 5: "I am not comfortable with any of the QBs on our roster."

Year 6: "Both Kolb and Skelton played like knuckleheads at times."

I think years 1&2 are all about what Whiz inherited. Year 3 was a no brainer.

Year 4 goes back to what Whiz inherited.

Year 5 is a no brainer. I''m a huge Skelton fan but that's based on what I believe he can develop into based on the positives we have seen when he has played and hoping the HUGE number of negatives can be coached out of him.

Year 6 is accurate.

 

[Duckjake]

Double Duece Skelton has 6 game winning drives in only 13 games in his NFL career. Now that's something to be proud of as Cardinal fans regardless of which QB you favor.

EDIT: I'll save some of you naysayers some typing. Yes DDSkelton did put the team down early but he still was able to pull the fat out of the fire. Something not every QB who makes early mistakes to put his team in a hole can do. Just like its not every baseball player whose error puts the team behind can come back up in the 9th and hit a game winning HR.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I went back and read the report again and Whisenhunt said that both players deserve to compete for the job---"John for the way he played at the back end of the season" and "Kevin---for all the reasons why we brought him here."..."but both, at times, are knuckleheads."

I don't like him calling them knuckleheads---I just don't...especially when the offense at times is about as QB unfriendly as an offense can be.

I think he would have lost all credibility if he just said all the good things and concluded by saying they had each earned the right to compete for the job. Most of us agree that the QB position was the leading reason (or at least one of the leading reasons) we failed to make the playoffs and it would have made no sense not to at least acknowledge what we've all seen out there. Both QB's played stupidly at times and calling them knuckleheads is about the nicest way he could acknowledge that fact.

Steve

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Skeleton has been incredible when you consider where he came from, his Time in the league, and his lack of reps. I like where his career is arcing. Kolb, on the other hand has no excuse and it would be nice for coach too show some love for JS.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Double Duece Skelton has 6 game winning drives in only 13 games in his NFL career. Now that's something to be proud of as Cardinal fans regardless of which QB you favor.

EDIT: I'll save some of you naysayers some typing. Yes DDSkelton did put the team down early but he still was able to pull the fat out of the fire. Something not every QB who makes early mistakes to put his team in a hole can do. Just like its not every baseball player whose error puts the team behind can come back up in the 9th and hit a game winning HR.

Post of the Year!

:number1:

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I know you are right, Rugby---but it really bothers me---imagine if your boss announced at the company picnic that you make "knucklehead" decisions at times---is that something, even if somewhat kidding, you want your co-workers to hear?

I get and understand you point. I am not saying your wrong. I guarantee there are people, and NFL football players that would take offense to this. Ridiculous or not. Just voicing my frustrations and thoughts on the matter, and I am NOT a P.C. person. Just a realist.



To answer you question on a personel level ?

The bosses at my work are free to do/say whatever as long as they pay me. The people that work under me are free to do about me whatever they want as long as they do what I tell them to do.

 

[JeffGollin]

...imagine if your boss announced at the company picnic that you make "knucklehead" decisions at times---is that something, even if somewhat kidding, you want your co-workers to hear?

This raises a totally separate issue.

At what point do you want your coaches and players to be all rah-rah and pollyannish in their public comments and at what point do you want them to be real?

Sometimes when a coach or team rep glosses over obvious weaknesses and prefers instead to run through the litany of talking point cliches, it can be frustrating.

By no means should a coach or player publically drag his team down, but sometimes it's refreshing to hear a guy acknowledge that things aren't perfect and that "they get it."

The trick, I think, is to do it in good humor, and I think that's what Wiz did by conceding that sometimes young QB's do knucklehead things.

 

[THESMEL]

Well call Ken Whizenhunt the knucklehead of all knuckleheads, He got a new contract paying him more than 5 million a year for 5 years! He is the QB Decider-the alpha and the Omega- HE wanted THAT in his new contract. And He sucks at it! just look at keeping only Kurt and Matt as a rookie HC in 2007! signing Tim and Tim off the couch!

Just what in Ken Whisenhunt good at as a HC? Personell :Faneca? Porter? Mcfaddin?
playcalling? player education and development? staff development?
When the chips were down Whiz blamed the players at the end of 2010! All of them and said he was going to replace them - and there were 50 new faces at camp like Whiz promised.

But this crap below? Really, I knew the answer knucklehead and I pay admission not recieve a paycheck. I like knuckleheads

“that is a question I don’t know can ever be answered.”

Who knows? That’s the question that can’t be answered but I am sure it is a popular topic.”

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events/article-2/Free-Agents-Wait/ba12dfd3-6250-4635-b83b-aa42cf69623b​

WHAT IF WITH LEINART​

The Cardinals released Matt Leinart

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right before the regular season. Then they proceeded to use four different quarterbacks during their 5-11 season.​

Coach Ken Whisenhunt said it was “fair” to ask him if he had regrets how the quarterback situation was handled. Overall, he said, the coaches were “fair and honest with the process.” As for the idea Leinart could have made a difference in the season, Whisenhunt said “that is a question I don’t know can ever be answered.”​

Whisenhunt reiterated the decision to part ways with Leinart was best for the team at the time.​

“It was based on performance,” Whisenhunt said. “It was based on the reaction of the team to the players and who was in there and the confidence that our team had in that position being able to execute. And that was what it was all about. It was based on the work in the offseason. It was based on the work in OTAs and in training camp and that is the way you have to evaluate players, I think. Who knows? That’s the question that can’t be answered but I am sure it is a popular topic.”​

 

[john h]

Interesting that Whisenhunt has recently been quoted as saying that Kolb and Skelton "played like knuckleheads at times." Now, some may consider this nothing more than an innocuous remark---and some may find it as funny as the silly photo (that accompanies the PFT report of CKW's quote) of Kolb and Skelton sharing a goofy laugh on the sidelines---while others may feel the caustic irony of the remark---

It was Whisenhunt who said last year, prior to trading DRC and a 2nd round pick for 4 year backup Kevin Kolb and signing him to a $65M contract that "I am not comfortable with any of the QBs on the roster."

Perhaps this is CKW's way of reiterating the same sentiment one year later.

Funny that Skelton continues to get called out by his head coach and thrown into a negative light and dubious status when both last year and this year it was Skelton (warts and all) who bailed CKW and the team out by accomplishing the following:

2010:

In his first start, despite never having taken a snap with the first team offense all season (in a season where QB play was dreadful, no less), he leads the team to a 43-13 victory over Denver and breaks the team's hapless 7 game losing streak---despite the egregious fact too that CKW was considering starting street FA Rich Bartel who was still being fitted for a helmet having just been signed.

Leading the exciting comeback 27-26 win versus the Cowboys on Christmas Day.

Finishing 2-2, on the heels of a dismal 3-9 record.

2011:

Takes over in Week 8 when the team was 1-6. Breaks the six game losing streak in his first start versus the Rams.

Goes 6-2 in games where he took the vast majority of the snaps.

Leads the team to 5 4th quarter victories.

Goes 4-0 versus the NFC West---breaking the three straight loss streak to Pete Carroll and the Seahawks---and breaking the five game losing streak to the 49ers.

Skelton's Career:

8-4

6 comeback 4th quarter wins.

4-1 in NFC West. (Team 1-6 versus NFC West last 2 years otherwise)

Team Record in games Skelton did not take the majority of snaps? 5-15.

It can be argued that the two people who saved CKW's butt this past season more than any other were John Skelton and Ray Horton---

Would CKW still be the HC if the team finished as they started and gone 2-14 or 3-13? Especially after last year?

Whisenhunt deserves credit for starting Skelton and for hiring Ray Horton.

However, is it possible that team won despite Whisenhunt and his all too monotonous and predictable offense?---and his penchant for mishandling QBs not named Warner?

Even with Warner---under Whisenhunt, Warner was named the starter in the off-season ONLY once (after his Super Bowl run---and exasperating contract negotiations).

Let it be said as well that Whisenhunt didn't do Horton many favors last off-season---when the off-season moves were focused primarily on the offense---sure, they drafted CB Patrick Peterson in the first round, but that was in part to give them the flexibility to trade for QB Kevin Kolb---and then, having spent a 1st round pick on a RB two years previously, he drafts a RB in Round 2, then with major holes on defense still to address, he drafts a situational pass catching TE in Round 3, a FB in Round 5 (who turned out to be the one impact rookie on offense) and a WR in Round 7.

In free agency---the Cardinals' biggest signing was at LG in Daryn Colledge---they also signed WR Chansi Stuckey, G/T Pork Chop Womack, TEs Jeff King and Todd Heap...to add to QB Kevin Kolb and draftees: RB Ryan Williams (2nd), TE Rob Housler (3rd), FB Anthony Sherman (5th) and WR DeMarco Sampson (7th).

Of these 10 additions on offense, only 3 of them made a consistently positive impact: Colledge, King and Sherman.

On defense the FA signings were backup DE Nick Eason, backup LB Stewart Bradley and CB Richard Marshall. In the THT trade backup DE Vonnie Holliday was added. In the draft Horton gets CB Patrick Peterson (1st), LB Sam Acho (4th), DT David Carter (6th) and LB Quan Sturdivant (6th).

Positive impacts under Horton? Eason, Marshall, Holliday, Peterson, Acho and Carter. ALL of them save Stewart Bradley 9who was outplayed big-time by Paris Lenon) and PS player Sturdivant. And look at how Rhodes developed the 2nd-3rd year young talent in Washington, Williams, Schofield, Johnson and Jefferson. Washington made exceptional strides, in particular, while the others showed solid signs of talent and improvement.

When one looks at what Rhodes was given and what he was able to accomplish---it just goes to show what effective and steady coaching can do.

The biggest irony of all is---who is going to look like the knucklehead when he releases Kevin Kolb? Might as well call Kolb a knucklehead on his way out the door---not exactly funny for a guy who spent the last 5 weeks of the season on the sideline with cobwebhead, largely because the HC's offense repeatedly allows for straight line shots to the QB.

Both John Skelton and Ray Rhodes deserve better this off-season---both deserve votes of confidence---and both deserve stronger support from their HC.

if not, maybe Whisenhunt can replace Kornheiser and join Wilbon on PTI so that he can be the one to wave the Canadian flag and sign off: "Goodnight, knuckleheads."

Skelton clearly had the best numbers and won lost record. For a QB with no experience he may have been one of the best in the league. Kolb was one of the worst in the league after being in the NFL for 4-5 years. It does not take a brainiac to figure this one out. Perhaps Kolb had problems we do not know about. One has reason to question Kolb's courage. At this point in time and based on what happened last year the QB job is Skelton's and Kolbs to try and win. Kolb had better learn to stay in the pocket for starters and that may take more than coaching. The trade for Kolb "may" turn out to be the worst in Cardinal history. I hope not. I would like to see him turn it all around and justify what we gave up for him and what we are going to pay him. If we keep him and he does not work out the consequences will be a giant anchor hanging around our neck for some years to come.

As a Cub fan I am reminded of the trade of future Hall of Fame OF Lou Brock to the St Louis Cardinals for an aging Ernie Brogillo. Perhaps letting Hall of Famer Greg Maddux go to the Braves was even worse. For a few hundred thousand dollars more in salary they could have kept Maddux. Deals like this are driven by idiot GMs or owners who want to save money. Who was the driving force in our trade for Kolb? We probably will never know unless some one on he inside decides to talk when he leaves. Just as important is who might have expressed their opinion that we should not go after Kolb?

 

[Shane]

Nothing wrong with what he said in any way shape or form. Man Im so glad I dont work around, with or for anyone like many of the thin skinned people that are out there. WOW!

 

[Duckjake]

As a Cub fan I am reminded of the trade of future Hall of Fame OF Lou Brock to the St Louis Cardinals for an aging Ernie Brogillo.

Hey the Cubs also got Larry Jackson from the Cardinals for some guy named Don Cardwell. Jackson won 24 games for the 8th place Cubs in 1964 and pitched almost 300 innings that season.

My favorite baseball player when I was a kid. 5 time all-star. I was devastated when the Cards traded him. Well until St.Louis won the World Series the next year.

The Cubs later traded Jackson for Fergie Jenkins. Turned out to be a heck of a deal for Chicago

Maybe Kolb will be more like Jackson than Broglio. Now who could we get in a trade for Kolb?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Skelton clearly had the best numbers and won lost record. For a QB with no experience he may have been one of the best in the league. Kolb was one of the worst in the league after being in the NFL for 4-5 years. It does not take a brainiac to figure this one out. Perhaps Kolb had problems we do not know about. One has reason to question Kolb's courage. At this point in time and based on what happened last year the QB job is Skelton's and Kolbs to try and win. Kolb had better learn to stay in the pocket for starters and that may take more than coaching. The trade for Kolb "may" turn out to be the worst in Cardinal history. I hope not. I would like to see him turn it all around and justify what we gave up for him and what we are going to pay him. If we keep him and he does not work out the consequences will be a giant anchor hanging around our neck for some years to come.

As a Cub fan I am reminded of the trade of future Hall of Fame OF Lou Brock to the St Louis Cardinals for an aging Ernie Brogillo. Perhaps letting Hall of Famer Greg Maddux go to the Braves was even worse. For a few hundred thousand dollars more in salary they could have kept Maddux. Deals like this are driven by idiot GMs or owners who want to save money. Who was the driving force in our trade for Kolb? We probably will never know unless some one on he inside decides to talk when he leaves. Just as important is who might have expressed their opinion that we should not go after Kolb?

Sure. Let's compare the trade of a Hall of Fame player with an investment which will max out at $20M at the end of 2012 and will hardly have serious financial consequences given increased revenues in years to come. If that 2nd round pick turns in a Hall of Famer, then you'll have a point.

The trade for Kolb was a total buy-in by those who mattered. Mike Bidwill, Graves and Whiz. They are on the record.

 

[BigRedRage]

stop being such a knucklehead

 

[MrYeahBut]

Hell IIRC, Plummer didn't have a problem calling his own mistakes 'bonehead'.... what's the big deal???