10 thoughts - day two and day three

Gandhi

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1 - Every year I find it fascinating, and kind of ignorant (I guess the difference can be thin), how many fans judge a pick by what Daniel Jeremiah’s and Mel Kiper’s general boards say about the player. I will probably never understand that way of evaluating. Be honest – how many of you have taken the time to study the Cards’ schemes, the decisions maker’s preferred player types and draft history, the player’s characteristics in regard to a specific role?

2 – Anyway, four of the five picks made very good sense to me. Actually, other than RB, I addressed all the same positions in my mock draft and had four of the players in consideration as various picks. Sure, I would have taken them at other spots in the game, but what do I know? I am not in on all the interviews pre-draft, and I am also not a professional scout. If I am off by a round or two, that certainly doesn’t keep me awake at night.

3 – I am excited about Max Melton. I did not consider him in the mock draft, just because I thought there were better options. In fact, I was very happy when Kool-Aid McKinstry was still on the board as #43 approached, and bummed when he got taken right in front of the Cards. It made me a little skeptic when they picked Melton, as I saw it as a so-so consolation prize. Having said that, he does have many of the characteristics of the CB’s Gannon previously have worked with as both a CB coach and as a DC. He is not quite as big as them, but plays aggressive, great in press-man, skilled cover 2-cornerback. I would be surprised if he is not a bigtime contributor at seasons end.

4 – When Drew Petzing went to sleep on Thursday, he must have dreamt about a third round like that. His scheme is all about making the defense confused about what will happen, if it will be a pass or run. Trey Benson can both run, catch and pass protect. I did not address RB in my mock draft, and I regretted it just a few days later for this very reason. Petzing’s offense also very often utilize two – sometimes even three – tight ends or H-backs, so it was always a good guess that they would draft one, and after Ben Sinnott went off the board, Reiman was the logical target. Adams is a great fit at left guard.

Those three are all very, very solid picks that fits the scheme perfectly. This is how you build a good team.

5 - For at least a month I wanted to like Elijah Jones more than I did. At some point his natural physics and playing abilities would be worth taking a chance on, but he has a very lean frame, and I just always saw him not playing physical enough. Especially in a scenario where Adisa Isaac (edge rusher), Jalex Hunt (edge rusher), and even safety Kamren Kinchens, was still on the board, I think that Jones was a strange pick.

6 – Trey Benson is a meh-pick. He fits the offensive scheme well, and he a little different than both Connor and Carter, and thus a good complement. I just don’t know how much they needed a new runningback, and especially picked that high. I understand the thinking, though.

7 – Imagine if they pick Mo Kamara with the fourth pick today. Kamara in the fourth round? Are you kidding me? That would be a fantastic start to day three.

8 – I would be fine if they went all defense today. Maybe with a WR thrown in there.

9 – If you accept my premise that they could use a legit deep threat WR, look for Troy Franklin, Oregon, and Tez Walker, North Carolina. They can absolutely fly.

10 – I think that edge rusher is by far the biggest need going into today, and I would take at least two. Who is left that fit the scheme? Sure, Kamara, but who else? Jaylen Harrell, Michigan. Bo Richter, Air Force. Gabriel Murphy, UCLA. I am a big Austin Booker-fan, but he is more of a very high-upside prospects than a good specific fit. So, they are out there. None of them are perfect at all, but you are not going to find perfect prospects on day three.
 

cardpa

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I'm quite okay with the first three picks of the draft. I always considered Melton to be underrated and I'm glad we got him. As for Benson, I see it as he fits the mold or type of running back Petzing likes for his offense and Benson also takes some of the load off of Connor who misses games every year. Actually Connor, Carter, and Benson gives the team a deep RB group. I get the pick.

Reiman is the new Swain to be used primarily as a blocker with an occasional pass thrown his way. I am quite frankly puzzled why Troy Franklin is still on the board. I don't know enough to have an opinion on the other choices.
 

slanidrac16

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1 - Every year I find it fascinating, and kind of ignorant (I guess the difference can be thin), how many fans judge a pick by what Daniel Jeremiah’s and Mel Kiper’s general boards say about the player. I will probably never understand that way of evaluating. Be honest – how many of you have taken the time to study the Cards’ schemes, the decisions maker’s preferred player types and draft history, the player’s characteristics in regard to a specific role?
You are so right!
2 – Anyway, four of the five picks made very good sense to me. Actually, other than RB, I addressed all the same positions in my mock draft and had four of the players in consideration as various picks. Sure, I would have taken them at other spots in the game, but what do I know? I am not in on all the interviews pre-draft, and I am also not a professional scout. If I am off by a round or two, that certainly doesn’t keep me awake at night.
I absolutely wanted a rb. Connor will miss some time. When he went down last year our ground game came to a complete halt. Benson will also save some wear and tear on Connor.
3 – I am excited about Max Melton. I did not consider him in the mock draft, just because I thought there were better options. In fact, I was very happy when Kool-Aid McKinstry was still on the board as #43 approached, and bummed when he got taken right in front of the Cards. It made me a little skeptic when they picked Melton, as I saw it as a so-so consolation prize. Having said that, he does have many of the characteristics of the CB’s Gannon previously have worked with as both a CB coach and as a DC. He is not quite as big as them, but plays aggressive, great in press-man, skilled cover 2-cornerback. I would be surprised if he is not a bigtime contributor at seasons end.

4 – When Drew Petzing went to sleep on Thursday, he must have dreamt about a third round like that. His scheme is all about making the defense confused about what will happen, if it will be a pass or run. Trey Benson can both run, catch and pass protect. I did not address RB in my mock draft, and I regretted it just a few days later for this very reason. Petzing’s offense also very often utilize two – sometimes even three – tight ends or H-backs, so it was always a good guess that they would draft one, and after Ben Sinnott went off the board, Reiman was the logical target. Adams is a great fit at left guard.
When we are nursing a 3 point lead in the 4th quarter with 5 minutes left plowing through the opposing defense for 5 yards at a time, we will be smiling.
Those three are all very, very solid picks that fits the scheme perfectly. This is how you build a good team.

5 - For at least a month I wanted to like Elijah Jones more than I did. At some point his natural physics and playing abilities would be worth taking a chance on, but he has a very lean frame, and I just always saw him not playing physical enough. Especially in a scenario where Adisa Isaac (edge rusher), Jalex Hunt (edge rusher), and even safety Kamren Kinchens, was still on the board, I think that Jones was a strange pick.

6 – Trey Benson is a meh-pick. He fits the offensive scheme well, and he a little different than both Connor and Carter, and thus a good complement. I just don’t know how much they needed a new runningback, and especially picked that high. I understand the thinking, though.

7 – Imagine if they pick Mo Kamara with the fourth pick today. Kamara in the fourth round? Are you kidding me? That would be a fantastic start to day three.

8 – I would be fine if they went all defense today. Maybe with a WR thrown in there.

9 – If you accept my premise that they could use a legit deep threat WR, look for Troy Franklin, Oregon, and Tez Walker, North Carolina. They can absolutely fly.
Agree. I want another wr. Wilson might be the guy, but he has durability issues and I hate the thought of defense double or triple coverage on MHJ.
10 – I think that edge rusher is by far the biggest need going into today, and I would take at least two. Who is left that fit the scheme? Sure, Kamara, but who else? Jaylen Harrell, Michigan. Bo Richter, Air Force. Gabriel Murphy, UCLA. I am a big Austin Booker-fan, but he is more of a very high-upside prospects than a good specific fit. So, they are out there. None of them are perfect at all, but you are not going to find perfect prospects on day three.
Hoping with you and totally agree.

Nice post!
 

outcent13

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Thanks for putting these together Ghandi. One of my favorite “regular posts” over the years.

I can’t agree with point one strongly enough! Every guys go earlier than the experts think and every year guys go later than they think. Every team has a head scratcher from time to time.

Kamara would be a great if he makes it to 104. I’d also be happy with Franklin but at this point I think there are more concerns than just size.
 

Krangodnzr

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Franklin is falling because he is rail thin and really struggled any time he faced a solid press man cover guy. Teams are just going to look at that tape and press him any time he comes on the field.

Franklin falling like this just shows you how much of a delta there is between the understanding of mock draft people and actual scouts.

Just a few months ago, Franklin was routinely a mid first round picks and now he is available in the fourth round.
 

Mulli

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Franklin is falling because he is rail thin and really struggled any time he faced a solid press man cover guy. Teams are just going to look at that tape and press him any time he comes on the field.

Franklin falling like this just shows you how much of a delta there is between the understanding of mock draft people and actual scouts.

Just a few months ago, Franklin was routinely a mid first round picks and now he is available in the fourth round.
:bhiich:
 

Cardiac

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Love your write ups and point 1 is dead on. I do disagree about the Benson pick because a quality RB was a screaming need IMO. Connor is awesome but does miss some time every year and having a RB who can fill in was necessary. Great value at the time and even if some other positions were bigger needs the value was to good to pass on.
 
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Gandhi

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As for Benson, I see it as he fits the mold or type of running back Petzing likes for his offense and Benson also takes some of the load off of Connor who misses games every year. Actually Connor, Carter, and Benson gives the team a deep RB group. I get the pick.
That is also my thoughts, Cardpa. I am basically by default against drafting runningbacks high, but I get it.
 
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Gandhi

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Thanks for putting these together Ghandi. One of my favorite “regular posts” over the years.
Thank you for telling me, OC! You and other like you are the reason it is more than worth to do these posts.

Kamara would be a great if he makes it to 104. I’d also be happy with Franklin but at this point I think there are more concerns than just size.
Yeah, I am completely with you. Franklin is not as big a talent as the pundits claimed months ago, but he is also not as bad as much longer than start day three. Thus, I think he would be a good pick now, or after a little trade back.
 

Fitz4Ever

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Franklin is falling because he is rail thin and really struggled any time he faced a solid press man cover guy. Teams are just going to look at that tape and press him any time he comes on the field.

Franklin falling like this just shows you how much of a delta there is between the understanding of mock draft people and actual scouts.

Just a few months ago, Franklin was routinely a mid first round picks and now he is available in the fourth round.
Here's the thing about Franklin though...he didn't really struggle. He had 1 game last year below 79 yards. He was consistently good across the entire season...so if it was easy to shut him down by playing press...none of Oregons opponents really did it.

I also think you have to give a guy a chance to improve. One of the easiest things to do in the NFL is get stronger. Franklin was a monster for a really good college program. You have to give him the chance to bulk up, learn from NFL coaches, and get better. He may never excel against the press...but if you put him in motion pre snap and get him in position to avoid being pressed and use his speed...he could easily be a #2/3 WR in the NFL.
 

Krangodnzr

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Here's the thing about Franklin though...he didn't really struggle. He had 1 game last year below 79 yards. He was consistently good across the entire season...so if it was easy to shut him down by playing press...none of Oregons opponents really did it.

I also think you have to give a guy a chance to improve. One of the easiest things to do in the NFL is get stronger. Franklin was a monster for a really good college program. You have to give him the chance to bulk up, learn from NFL coaches, and get better. He may never excel against the press...but if you put him in motion pre snap and get him in position to avoid being pressed and use his speed...he could easily be a #2/3 WR in the NFL.
Franklin went 4th round for a reason.

Bulking up isn't always a thing. And he didn't face press much because college teams don't press much.
 

Fitz4Ever

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Franklin went 4th round for a reason.

Bulking up isn't always a thing. And he didn't face press much because college teams don't press much.
NFL offenses have lots of ways to get a guy moving and avoid press coverage.

If its true he bombed interviews then the drop makes sense. He didnt drop because he has one weak area in his game.
 

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#1-In defense of those who post opinions based upon what DJ and Mel say, I'll only respond that those two seem to spend a LOT more time looking at tape than the average fan. As for myself I try to see what a lot of guys say, and find one that seems to make sense. And, naturally I mean sense to me.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Franklin is falling because he is rail thin and really struggled any time he faced a solid press man cover guy. Teams are just going to look at that tape and press him any time he comes on the field.

Franklin falling like this just shows you how much of a delta there is between the understanding of mock draft people and actual scouts.

Just a few months ago, Franklin was routinely a mid first round picks and now he is available in the fourth round.
Agreed. Same with Mo kamara continuing to drop like a rock. Just shows how little we all know. Even if Mel thinks he’s “best available” and you’ve been salivating over him we just took a passrusher over him.
 
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Gandhi

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#1-In defense of those who post opinions based upon what DJ and Mel say, I'll only respond that those two seem to spend a LOT more time looking at tape than the average fan. As for myself I try to see what a lot of guys say, and find one that seems to make sense. And, naturally I mean sense to me.
It was certainly not a critic about Kiper and Jeremiah. I think they do a great job. It is just that they need to put together a board that, at least in theory, cover all 32 teams. That is obviously impossible, and that is a big reason for fans' wrong judgements.
 
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Gandhi

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Agreed. Same with Mo kamara continuing to drop like a rock. Just shows how little we all know. Even if Mel thinks he’s “best available” and you’ve been salivating over him we just took a passrusher over him.
To be fair, Ouchie, that is not so much about evaluation, but more that Kamara probably cannot get much better than now. He is small, has short arms, and have done his work against inferior opponents. The great play tape and production is there, but the draft is obviously a lot about projection for some years down the road.
 

Krangodnzr

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Agreed. Same with Mo kamara continuing to drop like a rock. Just shows how little we all know. Even if Mel thinks he’s “best available” and you’ve been salivating over him we just took a passrusher over him.
Yep, we don't know much. These teams spends 1,000s on this.

Just like the Adams pick. On the surface, pretty meh, but then if you read what Nagy is saying about him, it sounds pretty intriguing.
 

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To be fair, Ouchie, that is not so much about evaluation, but more that Kamara probably cannot get much better than now. He is small, has short arms, and have done his work against inferior opponents. The great play tape and production is there, but the draft is obviously a lot about projection for some years down the road.
And the guy we just drafted can get better after 6 mediocre years in college? He's basically the same size and has short arms too.

He was a huge disappointment after being the #1 DE coming out of high school.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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#1-In defense of those who post opinions based upon what DJ and Mel say, I'll only respond that those two seem to spend a LOT more time looking at tape than the average fan. As for myself I try to see what a lot of guys say, and find one that seems to make sense. And, naturally I mean sense to me.
I’d like to challenge this course of action. For a month try finding things that make sense to me instead.
 
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Gandhi

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And the guy we just drafted can get better after 6 mediocre years in college? He's basically the same size and has short arms too.
Sure. If he can avoid injuries, and have some stability, he can easily become a lot better than ever at Clemson.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Yep, we don't know much. These teams spends 1,000s on this.

Just like the Adams pick. On the surface, pretty meh, but then if you read what Nagy is saying about him, it sounds pretty intriguing.
Yup I’ve adopted a new philosophy this year, if a guy is drafted that I’ve never actually seen play, or didn’t purposefully watch him (like any offensive lineman in any game ever) I am going to have zero opinion of him other than whether the position fits a need and whether the guys measurables and talent evaluators’ description of his skills fit what I know of our needs and what little I know of our scheme.

That means I can form a firsthand opinion of MHJ and benson (both of whom I love). And my exposure to virtually everyone else is limited to others observations and highlights, neither of which paint a full picture.

That said, here are my thoughts:

I like the position need and measurables of the two corners and the pundits excitement about Melton.

I like the position need and nagys thoughts on adams.

I like the position and scheme fit and measurables of the tightend.

I like that the safety has ballskills and isn’t afraid to hit.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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To be fair, Ouchie, that is not so much about evaluation, but more that Kamara probably cannot get much better than now. He is small, has short arms, and have done his work against inferior opponents. The great play tape and production is there, but the draft is obviously a lot about projection for some years down the road.
The mere fact that you’re making such a statement about a guy you probably have limited sight lines into causes me to question your perspective.
 

Krangodnzr

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Yup I’ve adopted a new philosophy this year, if a guy is drafted that I’ve never actually seen play, or didn’t purposefully watch him (like any offensive lineman in any game ever) I am going to have zero opinion of him other than whether the position fits a need and whether the guys measurables and talent evaluators’ description of his skills fit what I know of our needs and what little I know of our scheme.

That means I can form a firsthand opinion of MHJ and benson (both of whom I love). And my exposure to virtually everyone else is limited to others observations and highlights, neither of which paint a full picture.

That said, here are my thoughts:

I like the position need and measurables of the two corners and the pundits excitement about Melton.

I like the position need and nagys thoughts on adams.

I like the position and scheme fit and measurables of the tightend.

I like that the safety has ballskills and isn’t afraid to hit.
This.

I watch college football, but few people have the time to really watch all of these guys play like you would need to, to form a professional opinion.

The most I do is I read mocks and then investigate players. By no means is that enough to criticize any of what the Cardinals have done. I can see the appeal with each player.

I also have learned to just be excited that my favorite team has added a bunch of new players and I like the process of seeing who works out and who doesn't.
 

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