Week 2 2022: Heroes and Goats

Chris_Sanders

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
32,841
Reaction score
17,337
Location
Scottsdale, Az
I'm having trouble reconciling these examples with the claim that Kyler is too conservative and risk-averse. I recall many other examples of Murray throwing a lower-percentage, high-payoff pass and being roundly criticized for not taking the easy dump-off.

...dave

The beauty of Monday Morning Quarterbacking is both are true.
 

football karma

Happy in the pretense of knowledge
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
12,713
Reaction score
7,549
I'm having trouble reconciling these examples with the claim that Kyler is too conservative and risk-averse. I recall many other examples of Murray throwing a lower-percentage, high-payoff pass and being roundly criticized for not taking the easy dump-off.

...dave
yep

i think a legit criticism of Kyler is he regularly chooses higher reward / higher risk passes to the outside over lower reward/lower risk passes in the middle of the field.
 
OP
OP
kerouac9

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
30,817
Reaction score
11,344
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I'm having trouble reconciling these examples with the claim that Kyler is too conservative and risk-averse. I recall many other examples of Murray throwing a lower-percentage, high-payoff pass and being roundly criticized for not taking the easy dump-off.

...dave

It obviously depends on the situation. I'm more annoyed by Kyler yeeting the ball toward the sideline on 4th and 1 in overtime than dumping the ball off behind the LOS on 3rd and 12. But I'm annoyed both times. The leverage on the former situation is higher.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
28,112
Reaction score
17,907
Location
Orange County, CA
I'm having trouble reconciling these examples with the claim that Kyler is too conservative and risk-averse. I recall many other examples of Murray throwing a lower-percentage, high-payoff pass and being roundly criticized for not taking the easy dump-off.

...dave
My issue with Kyler in regards to risk management is that it seems like he vacillates between captain checkdown and captain comeback.

He just doesn't seem to always read the situation well. That usually comes with experience. So many of Kyler's issues are really the results of a young QB without much college experience, and probably could prepare a little more.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
13,007
Reaction score
6,604
Location
Modesto, California
Ya, sure. If it was, he doesn't catch the two pointer, and we lose!
AJ has had lots of drops he normally doesnt have.
AJ has had several occasions in which he doesnt even know what play we are running.
AJ has had several occasions where his individual effort is less than minimal.

All of that points to his head/heart not being into the game.


And honestly, were it not for a healthy assist from the turf he wouldnt have caught that conversion either.
 

SoonerLou

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Posts
5,777
Reaction score
7,589
Location
St Louis, MO
Im still not seeing the issue with Hollywood pass on 4th down. He had a WR wide open and threw it safely enough with the focus on getting a huge chunk of yards/1st down. Hollywood thinking TD messed that play up.

I have more of an issue with the forced 4th down pass to Brown in the 4th Qrt. That play he should have taken the safer target in Ertz. Instead, he pre-determined it and luckily it worked it.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
8,877
Reaction score
4,708
Kyler actually reads this well and throws the ball before Brown is fully open. But look at the size of the window he has. Brown really shouldn't have to catch it like he does. The pass was too lofted and slow.

You must be registered for see images attach


And here it is as a GIF. Hollywood rinsed the CB nicely.

He's throwing off his back foot. Needed to step into that throw and it's probably complete.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
50,247
Reaction score
35,398
Location
SoCal
VJs defense allowed the same amount of points that Kyler's offense was able to score. Holding them to the same standard is hilarious because one unit has a 250 mil franchise QB and the other is a band of misfit toys.
Hmm doesn’t the band of misfit toys have the highest paid safety in the league? Kyler isn’t even the highest paid quarterback.


(Not taking a side just showing how dumb using some facts - like kylers salary - is in this argument)
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
50,247
Reaction score
35,398
Location
SoCal
Hey my guy, when you’re a quarter-billion-dollar man you have to get to the new set of downs. His boy dropped the ball. He threw the pass his boy dropped.

Gain one yard and stay on the field.

That list is deranged.
You’re better than these arguments. You can’t even admit kyler delivered the ball that was actually caught for a first and then dropped by
Yeah. Kyler went too safe on that throw which enabled the S to get over to break up the catch. Brown still needs to find a way to come down with those but it was made more difficult by Kyler throwing a conservative ball. Probably because it was 4th and 1.
yeah I have no problem with the conservative throw there. The first down and a monster amount of yards was more important at that juncture than attempting a higher risk perfect pass hitting his receiver in stride.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
50,247
Reaction score
35,398
Location
SoCal
True but this isn't even risky. If anything he's making it more risky with his floaty pass, as it proved.

This should be a fairly basic look off the safety to Green's side, make an easy TD pass to Brown.
Not true. An underthrown pass is typically catchable with an adjustment by a receiver. An overthrown ball is play over.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
50,247
Reaction score
35,398
Location
SoCal
My issue with Kyler in regards to risk management is that it seems like he vacillates between captain checkdown and captain comeback.

He just doesn't seem to always read the situation well. That usually comes with experience. So many of Kyler's issues are really the results of a young QB without much college experience, and probably could prepare a little more.
I really think we need to shelve the “young QB” talk at this juncture. He played some before Oklahoma. He had an entire season at Oklahoma. And he started from game one in the NFL and has three seasons of starts and a playoff game. He’s got plenty of experience. Can he still grow and improve? Yes. But I think we can remove this crutch.
 

BritCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Posts
12,442
Reaction score
18,195
Location
UK
My issue with Kyler in regards to risk management is that it seems like he vacillates between captain checkdown and captain comeback.

He just doesn't seem to always read the situation well. That usually comes with experience. So many of Kyler's issues are really the results of a young QB without much college experience, and probably could prepare a little more.

The folks on GMFB said this on Monday. They said he's like one of those lifts where the middle floors are locked. On a scale to 1 to 10 he doesn't have a 5, 6 or 7. There's never a game where he just plays well, manages the game, throws a couple of TD's, completes 65% and wins by a score. He's either 8+ or 3, often in the same game. He either terrible or he's magic.

Which is why both the "risk adverse" and "too risky" people are both right. There's no middle. He's either 4 yard checkdowns or tight window 35 yard bombs.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
28,112
Reaction score
17,907
Location
Orange County, CA
The folks on GMFB said this on Monday. They said he's like one of those lifts where the middle floors are locked. On a scale to 1 to 10 he doesn't have a 5, 6 or 7. There's never a game where he just plays well, manages the game, throws a couple of TD's, completes 65% and wins by a score. He's either 8+ or 3, often in the same game. He either terrible or he's magic.

Which is why both the "risk adverse" and "too risky" people are both right. There's no middle. He's either 4 yard checkdowns or tight window 35 yard bombs.
I'd say he's often more risk adverse...but he has some moments where he gets greedy.

Kyler is very likely to figure it out. Even late in his career, Jeff George figured it out
 

SoonerLou

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Posts
5,777
Reaction score
7,589
Location
St Louis, MO
The folks on GMFB said this on Monday. They said he's like one of those lifts where the middle floors are locked. On a scale to 1 to 10 he doesn't have a 5, 6 or 7. There's never a game where he just plays well, manages the game, throws a couple of TD's, completes 65% and wins by a score. He's either 8+ or 3, often in the same game. He either terrible or he's magic.

Which is why both the "risk adverse" and "too risky" people are both right. There's no middle. He's either 4 yard checkdowns or tight window 35 yard bombs.
I dont think this is true. Well maybe this year (just 2 games).

Only time he seemed like a 3 or below was the Lions game and the Rams playoff game.

There were "5 or 6" level games to end the year last year. Good Morning Football is about entertainment instead of real football analysis.

Although Trent Dilfer did say back in 2019 that by the nature of the offense (lack of real run designs/run action) that the offense was capable of having really high highs and really low lows.
Last year they seemed to limit the low lows to about 3 games on the year (Panthers game w/McCoy as well)
 

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
22,031
Reaction score
20,992
Location
Colorado
I really think we need to shelve the “young QB” talk at this juncture. He played some before Oklahoma. He had an entire season at Oklahoma. And he started from game one in the NFL and has three seasons of starts and a playoff game. He’s got plenty of experience. Can he still grow and improve? Yes. But I think we can remove this crutch.
Yup. I am done with inexperience excuses for Kyler.
 

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
61,551
Reaction score
20,565
Location
Las Vegas
I really think we need to shelve the “young QB” talk at this juncture. He played some before Oklahoma. He had an entire season at Oklahoma. And he started from game one in the NFL and has three seasons of starts and a playoff game. He’s got plenty of experience. Can he still grow and improve? Yes. But I think we can remove this crutch.

Yea inexperience is a pretty lame excuse at this point…. In the midst of season #4 as a full time starter.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
28,112
Reaction score
17,907
Location
Orange County, CA
I really think we need to shelve the “young QB” talk at this juncture. He played some before Oklahoma. He had an entire season at Oklahoma. And he started from game one in the NFL and has three seasons of starts and a playoff game. He’s got plenty of experience. Can he still grow and improve? Yes. But I think we can remove this crutch.
Fair enough.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
484,316
Posts
4,822,036
Members
6,165
Latest member
nationsrj
Top