AZ Native
Living is Easy with Eyes Closed
7-0 who cares. 10-2 forget about it. Those games don’t count. Let’s fire everyone and start over again. We suck. Fire them all.
I'm serious. We have to move on.The reverse exaggeration by some folks on here lately is something to behold.
It comes down to what you think the ceiling is. Is this the best that Kliff has to offer? Is this the best Kyler has to offer? That is really what it boils down to. Personally, I do think you have to see the plateau before you decide to move off either.Reminds me of Bobo Holloman. Holloman was one of only 4 pitchers to throw a no-hitter in his first start. Throughout the game his opponents hit the ball with ferocious authority. Two defenders were injured making great plays. He won the game 6-0. His manager proclaimed he could win 20 games. You can’t argue with a no hitter’s box score. It does, however, remind us that numbers are always the indicator they seem. In his next start he was knocked out in the first inning. He finished the season 3-7. You’re correct to say you can’t ignore the Cards’ record. Kingsbury will definitely be the coach next year. I’m saying be cautious. There are serious flaws in the coaching scheme. Can they be corrected? Sure! I just warning I’ll be betting the under on whether the Cards win as many next year, though lots can happen between now and then.
I get what you’re saying but the best decision makers successfully project when the plateau will come and are proactive rather than reactive. Waiting for a plateau means essentially wasting a season (if you’re not moving forward you are likely to be moving backward as better teams will won’t stand pat). And how long do wait until you decide it’s a plateau? Like if we lose Monday we had an 11 win season + one and done playoffs. If that’s replicated next year is that the plateau upon which action should be taken? Or must you “sacrifice” (and I’m saying that a little tongue in cheek recognizing I’m calling 11 wins + playoff game as “sacrificing”) another season before making a change?It comes down to what you think the ceiling is. Is this the best that Kliff has to offer? Is this the best Kyler has to offer? That is really what it boils down to. Personally, I do think you have to see the plateau before you decide to move off either.
Yes, but when you hire/draft raw, you are doing so knowing that you will have to give more time than normal.I get what you’re saying but the best decision makers successfully project when the plateau will come and are proactive rather than reactive. Waiting for a plateau means essentially wasting a season (if you’re not moving forward you are likely to be moving backward as better teams will won’t stand pat). And how long do wait until you decide it’s a plateau? Like if we lose Monday we had an 11 win season + one and done playoffs. If that’s replicated next year is that the plateau upon which action should be taken? Or must you “sacrifice” (and I’m saying that a little tongue in cheek recognizing I’m calling 11 wins + playoff game as “sacrificing”) another season before making a change?
Little sad it took 3 years to put Kyler under center. He also need to roll out from under center instead of relying on his athleticism.I am of the mindset of seeing what happens next season. I think next season will be very telling. If we see improvement in play calling, growth in Murray's decision making and play, and overall better play from the team, then I think Kliff gets another year.
Kliff, has adjusted his coaching style every year. He is even putting Murray under center now which he didn't do at all before.
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens this next year. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.
It's the same argument for firing Keim as well.There is a MAJOR assumption being made with these arguments. That is, by firing KK we will hire a coach that will take us to the next level. I am far from confident that would be the case. It is quite likely it would be a train wreck instead.
Kyler was under center last year.Little sad it took 3 years to put Kyler under center. He also need to roll out from under center instead of relying on his athleticism.
Kyler desperately needs to recognize his secondary receiver BEFORE the snap and get the ball out of his hand in those situations.
Great post.It's the same argument for firing Keim as well.
Keim has built to iterations of winning teams with the Cardinals, first with Arians and now with Kingsbury.
We aren't seeing a team with a lack of talent win with superior coaching. I think we are seeing a mixed bag where the Cardinals at times win with talent, and at times win with coaching.
What I find frustrating about this message board is that you will see the same posters that say fire Keim also say fire Kingsbury. You'd think this team had terrible players and wasn't winning. That isn't the case; the Cardinals just completed one of their best regular seasons ever. They were five games over .500. This is a good football team that has hit a bit of a funk due to injuries and uneven play from their best players.
I agree there’s been progress. But you didn’t really address any of the question I had about your target of plateau for changes.Yes, but when you hire/draft raw, you are doing so knowing that you will have to give more time than normal.
I think the transition from worst team in the NFL, to 5 wins, to 8 wins and then 11 wins and a playoff appearance is significant progress. Most teams suck their first time in the playoffs so for me, a loss isn't that significant. Especially when Kyler has failed to win any playoff game since High School.
I think you just answered your own frustration. If they go into a funk at seasons end for three straight years and it isn’t lack of talent or coaching it has to be due to inconsistency of both which is why it’s not inconsistent to want both keim and kliff canned. If one or the other was consistent this team would be a force to be reckoned with . . . right?It's the same argument for firing Keim as well.
Keim has built to iterations of winning teams with the Cardinals, first with Arians and now with Kingsbury.
We aren't seeing a team with a lack of talent win with superior coaching. I think we are seeing a mixed bag where the Cardinals at times win with talent, and at times win with coaching.
What I find frustrating about this message board is that you will see the same posters that say fire Keim also say fire Kingsbury. You'd think this team had terrible players and wasn't winning. That isn't the case; the Cardinals just completed one of their best regular seasons ever. They were five games over .500. This is a good football team that has hit a bit of a funk due to injuries and uneven play from their best players.
I’m not making that assumption. I’ve seen too many Cardinal coaches. I’m just convinced Kingsbury has taken this team as far as he can. It’s always a gamble but I’m not willing to settle for bridesmaid status.There is a MAJOR assumption being made with these arguments. That is, by firing KK we will hire a coach that will take us to the next level. I am far from confident that would be the case. It is quite likely it would be a train wreck instead.
This cards team has decent quality starters at most positions, but is weak depth wise because of bad drafting primarily. I don't think criticising Keim for his bad draft history is out of line in the least - it is documented fact.It's the same argument for firing Keim as well.
Keim has built to iterations of winning teams with the Cardinals, first with Arians and now with Kingsbury.
We aren't seeing a team with a lack of talent win with superior coaching. I think we are seeing a mixed bag where the Cardinals at times win with talent, and at times win with coaching.
What I find frustrating about this message board is that you will see the same posters that say fire Keim also say fire Kingsbury. You'd think this team had terrible players and wasn't winning. That isn't the case; the Cardinals just completed one of their best regular seasons ever. They were five games over .500. This is a good football team that has hit a bit of a funk due to injuries and uneven play from their best players.
Nobody is willing to settle for that.I’m not making that assumption. I’ve seen too many Cardinal coaches. I’m just convinced Kingsbury has taken this team as far as he can. It’s always a gamble but I’m not willing to settle for bridesmaid status.
I disagree. I think there are many battered fans that would be content to be perennial bridesmaids.Nobody is willing to settle for that.
He’s not under center as much as I think he should and even less last year.Kyler was under center last year.
And rolling out effectively makes the defense have to defend one side of the field.
What we need is for Kyler to buy into being a complete player. We need him to do the extra film work that will make him understand what defenses are trying to do to him.
I disagree. I think there are many battered fans that would be content to be perennial bridesmaids.
I agree there’s been progress. But you didn’t really address any of the question I had about your target of plateau for changes.